Ruger? Are you listening?

[Enfielder]

I had one of hose highway thoughts the other day that I believe could have potential for Ruger. Ever since the American and American Ranch rifle came out, I viewed it as a high quality and flexible platform. When I first saw The Ranch in a shop, there were two calibers there; .223 and .300 Blackout. I said to myself then, I wish they would offer one in 7.62x39 as it just makes sense and they would sell lots of them as long as they kept costs down.
Then it hit me the other day: Why can't Ruger offer a "custom order" American rifle product available in any caliber that will safely fit their long or short action. It's 2019 and machining process are largely all stored in a computer file or can be written. It would not be that difficult to make a multi caliber platform American receiver.
Imagine being able to, for a $100 or so dollars more, custom order a brand new .300 savage. How about a bolt fed 45-70 with a three round mag? A .303 British? 35 Whelen?
So Ruger, if you're listening, I'd appreciate the credit for our next business venture and that credit can come as stock options or just 5% of the lines success. Call it the Universal Select American Rifle line or abbreviate it as the USA Rifle.
You're welcome.

 

[troy fairweather]

i'd just like them to put sights on the american line.

 

[Enfielder]

i'd just like them to put sights on the american line.

Me too

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Many years ago while in business school I got into several heated debates with professors about just in time and small scale production. They understood just in time inventory but didn’t understand that with CAD/CAM, CNC and modern techniques companies don't need massive assembly lines to be profitable.

Since then companies like Kel Tec have show that innovation and profit can exist by producing niche products in enough volume to recover design and testing quickly and make money.

If you want to see cool, there’s a show on ondemand (sorry don’t recall the channel) about the Ford F-150 factory in MI.

That plant is basically a massive factory but also filled with on demand for each truck. So they use a mixture of techniques to build an F-150 every minute of every day minus a few holidays.

So if Ford can build a custom order in that insanity, others can too if they have the automation and tooling. And if the product is of a modular design.

The hard part is getting past the naysayers and “experts” like my business school profs and my PhD ones that really are more interested in job security than innovation. If you can then success like Kel Tec and Ford show it can happen in other companies.

 

[CraigC]

There is R&D involved in virtually any variation, so it's not just a matter of changing the barrel blank or reamer. Something like the .300Savage or .35Whelen would be easy but anything with a rim like the .303 or .45-70 would be a serious undertaking. They have to make sure something is going to work and that takes time & money. If they're going to invest time & money into another variation, it needs to be a standard production gun that will sell in quantity. That said, I don't see why they couldn't offer cartridges that are similar enough to existing offerings that it wouldn't require any major changes.

I would like to see an iron sight version of the American too.

 

[jmorris]

The easiest way to make money is to have one production line that sells a kajillion units, you can keep price the lowest that way.

The hardest is to make one of something (ie custom) generally costs are highest at that point.

 

[Enfielder]

The easiest way to make money is to have one production line that sells a kajillion units, you can keep price the lowest that way.

The hardest is to make one of something (ie custom) generally costs are highest at that point.

It's understood that custom one-offs are more expensive. That what the additional cost is about. My point is that modern technology should allow for this process to be more cost effective. "On demand" production is what I'm talking about. The company could still have their 308's and 30-06's for sale as their bread and butter and still offer custom calibers.
Regarding rimmed pills, that would be something that would need engineering of the magazine, bolt face, extractor, ejector and locking lugs. If it came down to wanting to stick with rimless cartiridges to keep r&d to a minimum, then that would be that. Either way, the idea is that a customer would pay more for what they want and the manufacturing process would be streamlined. A 308 magazine would work for many calibers as would a 30-06 since so many calibers are cousins of those two. A rotary magazine could easily be modified to accept 30-30 or any others. All of the data is out there as far as cartridge dimensions and plugging it in to a design program should take about a trip to Wikipedia and a cut and paste.

 

[Enfielder]

Iron sights makes so much sense for these rifles. I'm trying to figure out why they haven't done it. Indexing the barrel to the receiver is easier with no front sight as all you have to worry about is headspacing.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Make friends with someone at Lipsey's -- Ruger does those smallish runs for them all the time.

 

[jmorris]

My point is that modern technology should allow for this process to be more cost effective. "On demand" production is what I'm talking about.

Someday we might be buying 3D printed rifles, that would be close to “on demand” production.

 

[Laphroaig]

It's 2019 and machining process are largely all stored in a computer file or can be written. It would not be that difficult to make a multi caliber platform American receiver.

Not that this will totally sink your idea of custom production, but rifle barrels are not CNC machined and require a reamer for final chambering. Also, different bolt faces would further complicate things. That it part of why custom rifles are so expensive, no economy of scale.

 

[CraigC]

Not that this will totally sink your idea of custom production, but rifle barrels are not CNC machined and require a reamer for final chambering. Also, different bolt faces would further complicate things. That it part of why custom rifles are so expensive, no economy of scale.

I think people have this image of magical machines that need only be told what to do to turn out just any old thing they want.

 

[Varminterror]

It's 2019 and machining process are largely all stored in a computer file or can be written.

Chamber reamers aren’t a computer program, they are physical tooling. Hammer forging mandrels are not a computer program, they are physical tooling. Bore drills are physical tooling. SAAMI compliance provenance (product validation for design tolerance against SAAMI compliant ammunition, aka proof testing) isn’t just a computer program. Product line management costs, marketing costs, product logistics management costs, etc are not just a computer program. Inventory carry (aka costs) for bolts, barrels, and finished firearms aren’t just a computer program. Customer service support costs to serve a broader product base aren’t just a computer program.

Effectively, the only things which are just a computer program which offers versatility to a new product model within the line is the laser engraving for the barrel chambering and the bolt face diameter cutting operation. Everything else about creating a new offering is incremental costs. Ruger has proven themselves to be experts in reading, manipulating, and capitalizing upon firearms market trends - no other firearms manufacturer has attained their volume nor relative market strength in the last decade - or two, really. If they aren’t offering something, it’s because it doesn’t make good financial sense to offer it.

Product offerings aren’t just a click of the mouse.

 

[alsaqr]

Iron sights makes so much sense for these rifles. I'm trying to figure out why they haven't done it.

Cost!!!!. Most gun owners scope their centerfire rifles. i've got a few dozen sets of sights removed from rifles.

 

[Enfielder]

Not that this will totally sink your idea of custom production, but rifle barrels are not CNC machined and require a reamer for final chambering. Also, different bolt faces would further complicate things. That it part of why custom rifles are so expensive, no economy of scale.

But can it be done? Saying it can't be done tells me that it just hasn't been done yet and that is the seed of innovation. Is final reaming on the American series done by hand? I doubt it. Starting out the project with a .473 bolt face can be a good start to a long list of calibers.

3D printing can be used for rotary mag followers for your oddball calibers.
Now if you guys haven't figured it out by now, I'm not a machinist, nor do I work in production, and have not a clue as to whether or not this can be done. My imagination suggests that there ARE machines that can do this type of work and hold a high standard of quality. Machines do in a day what it took three days to do by hand 40 years ago.

 

[troy fairweather]

Cost!!!!. Most gun owners scope their centerfire rifles. i've got a few dozen sets of sights removed from rifles.

they should at least make it a option for those that want them. id pay the xtra for the sights.

 

[mustanger98]

Regarding Ruger's bolt action rifles... any series... and iron sights, for several years I've been to the point I'd be happy if they'd sell me just the barreled action. I've got a better idea about stocks and sights I actually like than they do.

 

[mustanger98]

they should at least make it a option for those that want them. id pay the xtra for the sights.

For a good quality set of irons, I'd probably be right there at the gun counter with you. That said, though, Garandimal solved that problem with his 6.5x55 and the NECG.

 

[troy fairweather]

For a good quality set of irons, I'd probably be right there at the gun counter with you. That said, though, Garandimal solved that problem with his 6.5x55 and the NECG.

ya necg stuff are very nice. the banded front sights are easy for mist shooters to install, then just get there reciver peeps. i wish the banded front sights were cheaper but there about $70 and $90 for the peeps.

 

[mustanger98]

Well, $90 for their rear sight seems competitive with Williams and Lyman... until you figure it's set/forget, and then it seems higher. Right off, $70 for the front sight seems high but so do some old Redfields on eBay.

 

[troy fairweather]

Well, $90 for their rear sight seems competitive with Williams and Lyman... until you figure it's set/forget, and then it seems higher. Right off, $70 for the front sight seems high but so do some old Redfields on eBay.

you can get normal 3/8 dovetail ramp front sights for under $20. the banded are just easier to install. necg makes a style for any weaver base, that's very versatile.

 

[someguy2800]

Many years ago while in business school I got into several heated debates with professors about just in time and small scale production. They understood just in time inventory but didn’t understand that with CAD/CAM, CNC and modern techniques companies don't need massive assembly lines to be profitable.

Since then companies like Kel Tec have show that innovation and profit can exist by producing niche products in enough volume to recover design and testing quickly and make money.

If you want to see cool, there’s a show on ondemand (sorry don’t recall the channel) about the Ford F-150 factory in MI.

That plant is basically a massive factory but also filled with on demand for each truck. So they use a mixture of techniques to build an F-150 every minute of every day minus a few holidays.

So if Ford can build a custom order in that insanity, others can too if they have the automation and tooling. And if the product is of a modular design.

The hard part is getting past the naysayers and “experts” like my business school profs and my PhD ones that really are more interested in job security than innovation. If you can then success like Kel Tec and Ford show it can happen in other companies.

I am an engineer in the 3D printing industry and this is the kind of stuff we work on everyday, on demand inventory and mass customization. It’s coming. Actually it’s already here, it’s just expensive. I don’t think people fully appreciate just how cheap guns are considered the amount of machine time that goes into making them.

 

[someguy2800]

Someday we might be buying 3D printed rifles, that would be close to “on demand” production.

My company was offering direct metal laser sintered 1911’s made from 17-4 stainless for awhile. I think they wanted $10,000 for them and they were not making a profit.

 

[someguy2800]

But can it be done? Saying it can't be done tells me that it just hasn't been done yet and that is the seed of innovation. Is final reaming on the American series done by hand? I doubt it. Starting out the project with a .473 bolt face can be a good start to a long list of calibers.

This is a similar concept in how they cut valve seats for cylinder heads. It used to be that the seat profile was cut buy a small replaceable cutter that had all the angles ground into it. So you had to carry an inventory of different cutters with suitable profiles for different applications. You could order custom cutters with whatever angles widths or radiuses you wanted and you cut each seat one at a time piloted off the valve guide. Now they have CNC controlled machines with single point cutters that can be programmed to cut whatever profile and they don’t use pilots anymore so it will do a whole head without user intervention once the head is fixtured.

I don’t see any reason you couldn’t do the same with chambers other than it being more expensive and slower, thus probably costing more than investing in a library of reamers.

On a side note, some cold forged barrels have the chamber shaped on the forging mandrel rather than with a reamer. I don’t know how widespread that is.

 

[jmr40]

I said to myself then, I wish they would offer one in 7.62x39

The 7.62X39 was the original chambering, others came later.

https://ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/16976.html

Ruger is the most financially sound of all the USA gun makers. Maybe on the planet. Others have gone broke trying to offer everything to everybody. Henry Ford proved the manufacturing theory with his model T. Available in any color you wanted as long as you wanted black. And black was chosen because black paint dried faster allowing the production line to move faster.