Ruger? Are you listening?

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My company was offering direct metal laser sintered 1911’s made from 17-4 stainless for awhile. I think they wanted $10,000 for them and they were not making a profit.

Yeah, the TI datamath 4 function calculator was over $100 when it came out, required a bunch of ni cads or 120vac. Now people give calculators away that are powered by ambient light and have square root and memory functions.
 
Now if you guys haven't figured it out by now, I'm not a machinist, nor do I work in production, and have not a clue as to whether or not this can be done. My imagination suggests that there ARE machines that can do this type of work and hold a high standard of quality. Machines do in a day what it took three days to do by hand 40 years ago.

It was painfully obvious you’ve never been in this type of environment based on your original statements. Good advice was handed to you as to why your imagination is wrong, yet you’re reasserting your position. #dunningkruger.

Yes, the machines exist, but you’re neglecting the inherent costs for the tooling, set up, inventory costs, marketing, and product management logistics.

Ruger has the best margins in the firearms market, and it doesn’t come by making fundamental business mistakes - mistakes, for example, like diluting the revenue potential of a budget minded product line by increasing the total line cost, increasing total line inventory carry, increasing marketing and logistics management costs, and reducing the relative sales rate of the line by introducing a low volume model.
 
^ that’s it in simple terms. Setup can take a long time, even with something that seems “simple” to the folks that actually are doing the work.

Build a few things and you will see that most of the time is doing everything except removing metal.

Even if you are “rocking” with a CNC, you will pause it if it out paces you making sure the parts it’s making are in spec.
 
Regarding Ruger's bolt action rifles... any series... and iron sights, for several years I've been to the point I'd be happy if they'd sell me just the barreled action. I've got a better idea about stocks and sights I actually like than they do.
This.

If someone wants sighs on their Ruger American, it's not a difficult proposition to put them on there. IMO it's just whining. If you want sights, buy them and install them for pete's sake. 95% of us don't care if they include sights because we won't use them and Ruger knows that.
 
It was painfully obvious you’ve never been in this type of environment based on your original statements. Good advice was handed to you as to why your imagination is wrong, yet you’re reasserting your position. #dunningkruger

If you are going to start insulting me while I entertaining an idea, go shove it. No one asked you for your psychological diagnosis. You're a voice on the Internet and nothing more here.
 
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The 7.62X39 was the original chambering, others came later.
That's a big negative, my friend. There was the Zytel stocked 77 in the commie caliber but the 7.62x39 Am-ranch just came out recently. The 223 and 300 Am-ranch existed years before.
 
I believe this can be done in a technical sense very easily, but it would also necessarily totally upend firearms distribution in the US. If a manufacturer like Ruger were to offer, at no more than a modest fee, bespoke guns that a customer can configure, then they wouldn't need Lipsey's or Talo or any of the other distributors to buy large inventories and capitalize their business. They would be throwing those distributors under the bus so to speak. Not only them but local guns stores and big box gun stores too. Customers would just order their custom gun from Ruger and at most pay an FFL transfer fee. It would do the same thing for guns what iTunes (or Napster) did for music. Record stores are gone and a lot of record labels are just studio-operators, promotional agencies and festival producers whereas before they literally picked the winners and losers.

There's not much of a chance that Ruger, S&W, Remington or Glock will do it -- not anymore than GM, Ford or Chrysler would switch to a direct-sales model. A newcomer, on the other hand, like Tesla, might dare to do it. But the problem is they'd be new and would need a source of capital. If they're whole premise is to screw the dealer model, they'd either have to be content with staying small-time with high custom gun prices, or they'd need investors willing to bet huge that it will be a massive success. Considering that the most popular guns are widely seen as one-election away from being existentially threatened, those investors would have to be willing to take a tremendous risk. Clearly, the return on nothing but some budget bolt actions won't pay off.
 
This.

If someone wants sighs on their Ruger American, it's not a difficult proposition to put them on there. IMO it's just whining. If you want sights, buy them and install them for pete's sake. 95% of us don't care if they include sights because we won't use them and Ruger knows that.

Jack O'Conner wrote a chapter on this 50 years ago. Iron sights were getting cheaper and worse as time went on until many times they're just omitted because "everybody knows" everybody's going to scope it real quick anyway.

Now, mostly they won't even factory D&T for an optional reciever sight... so to the gunsmith I went...

And the people who own gun shops many times seem to not want to deal in iron-sighted rifles because, if we don't buy the scope and mount system, they didn't make near as much profit margine on a rifle.
 
I believe this can be done in a technical sense very easily, but it would also necessarily totally upend firearms distribution in the US. If a manufacturer like Ruger were to offer, at no more than a modest fee, bespoke guns that a customer can configure, then they wouldn't need Lipsey's or Talo or any of the other distributors to buy large inventories and capitalize their business. They would be throwing those distributors under the bus so to speak. Not only them but local guns stores and big box gun stores too. Customers would just order their custom gun from Ruger and at most pay an FFL transfer fee. It would do the same thing for guns what iTunes (or Napster) did for music. Record stores are gone and a lot of record labels are just studio-operators, promotional agencies and festival producers whereas before they literally picked the winners and losers.

This is a big part of the problem. Do the markets serve us, or are we here to serve the markets? Big business would maintain the latter.

And there seems to be a pretty good secondary market for older iron sights, but many times they don't fit new production rifles. Now, if somebody got going building good quality sights to fit the new models... many businesses started in somebody's garage... the 5% or however many of us who do use them would have more options in a free-er market. Boyd's and others are already doing this with stocks.
 
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I'd just like to be able to order a mix and match american rifle out of their new "custom shop" Understand that I am left handed and that skews my perspective, but I'd love to be able to pick a receiver, a barrel, and a stock of any current production part and have them slap it together. A predator action with a ranch colored stock, sure thing. a left hand predator action with a thinner american barrel, sure. a ranch action with a predator barrel in 6.5 grendel, yes please. Nothing custom tooled or reamed, but parts they already make in a configuration they don't offer.

I had wanted a left hand predator in 308, because all they used to offer was 6.5creedmoor, but they fixed that issue.
 
Honestly I don’t think the idea is as far out in left field as some may think. Its not going to be the ruger American that goes in this direction, but I don’t doubt that this sort of mass customization is in the near future as well as more direct sales to customers rather than distributor and dealer networks. Lots of industries are pushing toward this type of on demand manufacturing, it makes more businesses sense in many ways to make what the customer ordered rather than make what you assume they will buy. In many industries this is already the norm.
 
Honestly I don’t think the idea is as far out in left field as some may think. Its not going to be the ruger American that goes in this direction, but I don’t doubt that this sort of mass customization is in the near future as well as more direct sales to customers rather than distributor and dealer networks. Lots of industries are pushing toward this type of on demand manufacturing, it makes more businesses sense in many ways to make what the customer ordered rather than make what you assume they will buy. In many industries this is already the norm.

A “norm” or aftermarket customization is already established for the firearms market. Ruger has been licensing its trademarks to external parties which make parts compatible with Ruger firearms for decades. Ruger has many models with reputations for being “Kit guns,” whether it’s the 10/22, Vaqueros, Mark Series pistols, the AR-556 (the only base receiver Ruger sells), RPR, and now the American.

As a company, sticking to a base platform and allowing external parties to carry the liability and logistics costs, and increased production costs in the case of many of these parts, makes a lot of sense - and in the case of Ruger and their symbiotic external parties, it makes a lot of money too.

Glock has capitalized on the same market philosophy, again, for decades. Glock lives by the old Henry Ford mantra - they’ll sell any pistol you want, as long as it’s black. They have an exceptionally small product offering, with an exceptionally large aftermarket mechanism.

So Ruger and Glock can sit on reduced operating costs and working capital, minimizing their product costs in a volatile and fickle market, sell an “everyman’s firearm” to the Everyman, and let the custom gunsmiths and aftermarket parts manufacturers live a happy life at lower volumes, lower margins, higher costs, and higher risks. They’re simply different business models.

Contrarily - Sig operates relatively on the opposite platform. They offer TONS of model options with high degrees of customization in house. They deal much more closely to a “built to order” mechanism (not sure if it still is, but it used to be their ACTUAL method, where they wouldn’t produce until a dealer/wholesaler placed an order, literal BTO). Naturally, there’s a much higher cost associated with their products, with lower volume sales, and lower margins inherent. Companies like Cooper, Dakota, NULA, and a handful of others also live in this paradigm, and none enjoy the market volume or success which has Ruger.

Some firearms companies - recently to include Ruger - do offer a “custom shop,” while most of these - recently to include Ruger - are simply a mechanism to market up-featured, up-charged Standard models with standard upgrades, rather than a true custom order shop. S&W’s Performance Center used to be a real custom shop, but today, it’s largely just a set of upfeatured, higher cost models, with some additional labor costs involved. So they already have gone away from a true custom shop towards a more “pick from the menu” product line up, pretending it’s a custom shop.

Ruger HAS been recognizing the successes of their “modification ready” products, and moving more and more towards offering a model line-up which is more readily aftermarket customizable, which also reduced their production costs and product costs to the consumer - win/win/win for the consumer, Ruger, and aftermarket manufacturers. The aftermarket options for the American line supersede those of the M77 line after only a few short years compared to the lifecycle of the M77 line, especially in terms of “no gunsmith,” “drop in,” and “owner installed” options.

Especially in the face of the current market trends where the average buyer is a first time buyer, I don’t expect any market influence will change to convert the highly successful - market leading - firearms manufacturer to adopt a boutique customizer operating model any time soon.
 
It's understood that custom one-offs are more expensive. That what the additional cost is about. My point is that modern technology should allow for this process to be more cost effective. "On demand" production is what I'm talking about. The company could still have their 308's and 30-06's for sale as their bread and butter and still offer custom calibers.
Regarding rimmed pills, that would be something that would need engineering of the magazine, bolt face, extractor, ejector and locking lugs. If it came down to wanting to stick with rimless cartiridges to keep r&d to a minimum, then that would be that. Either way, the idea is that a customer would pay more for what they want and the manufacturing process would be streamlined. A 308 magazine would work for many calibers as would a 30-06 since so many calibers are cousins of those two. A rotary magazine could easily be modified to accept 30-30 or any others. All of the data is out there as far as cartridge dimensions and plugging it in to a design program should take about a trip to Wikipedia and a cut and paste.
I get it, like it, and reference federal's new custom ammo shop..... I wish them too the best of luck!
 
The 7.62X39 was the original chambering, others came later.

https://ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/16976.html

Ruger is the most financially sound of all the USA gun makers. Maybe on the planet. Others have gone broke trying to offer everything to everybody. Henry Ford proved the manufacturing theory with his model T. Available in any color you wanted as long as you wanted black. And black was chosen because black paint dried faster allowing the production line to move faster.
The Mini-30 "Ranch Rifle" yes but not the American Ranch. That only came last year in 7.62x39.


If you are going to start insulting me while I entertaining an idea, go shove it. No one asked you for your psychological diagnosis. You're a voice on the Internet and nothing more here.
That wasn't an insult. Some internet voices are more credible than others. If you actually read what VT posts, rather than perceiving it as an insult because it deflates your balloon, you might learn something.
 
Verminterror has touched on this in a way, but a company the size of Ruger doesn't care about an extra $400,000 in sales from the few thousand potential buyers that might order a gun in a custom chambering. The amount of money that can be made, even if it's technically feasible, is pennies compared to what a stock offering in a popular caliber can bring in for them. Keep in mind, Ruger is a public company. They need to show market growth quarter after quarter to keep shareholders happy, and small volume custom products don't contribute that type of sustained growth.

Keltec can get away with offering odd-ball items because they are a private company and they alone can decide what type of profits and growth they are happy with. But a public company just can't get away with that, at least in the long term.

Ford can do it with the F150, because they aren't building you a completely custom truck. You have limitations of what you can pick, and even limitations within each trim level and then which packages can be combined with others. Think of a F150 as a LEGO truck. An assembly plant already has thousands and thousands of cloth and leather seats in beige and black and grey on standby that you can choose that bolt right into your "custom" truck, but they won't let you order blue leather seats because they rely on offering you high volume stock parts. If you want a more custom interior, you go to Rolls Royce who will hand build your blue leather seats.
 
.... it makes more businesses sense in many ways to make what the customer ordered rather than make what you assume they will buy. In many industries, this is already the norm.

On the other hand, there are some businesses that very much remain anchored in the idea that "they" know and the consumer does not know what they really want. Apple. While I think the big gun makers are more similar to big auto, if custom product configuration, even it was from a menu, was the best model for any consumer product, we'd see Apple and Samsung doing it with smart phones, a product that is far more ubiquitous than either guns or cars. Instead, we see they actually offer fewer product configurations. I think Apple is currently offering exactly 3 models of iPhone and the only difference between them is two screen sizes and two screen resolutions. Apple is absolutely convinced that they and not the consumer will make all the best choices for the consumer. By sales figures, they don't seem to be wrong. Phone Bloks and Google's project Ara, on the other hand, don't seem to attract much interest.

I don't want to pretend to be a gun market expert. I've hardly studied it all. But I would speculate that traditions and trends account for a huge majority of sales compared to customers that have more specific wants whose demand can be met by the aftermarket.
 
I don’t doubt that this sort of mass customization is in the near future as well as more direct sales to customers rather than distributor and dealer networks. Lots of industries are pushing toward this type of on demand manufacturing, it makes more businesses sense in many ways to make what the customer ordered rather than make what you assume they will buy. In many industries this is already the norm.

It already exists it’s not a “future” thing at all. SVI has been been allowing the buyer to specify most every aspect of the firearm for more than a decade.

https://www.sviguns.com/2001.php

That said you can get a pistol starting around $3000 and it may take a year to get it. That’s not the market Ruger is after.
 
It already exists it’s not a “future” thing at all. SVI has been been allowing the buyer to specify most every aspect of the firearm for more than a decade.

https://www.sviguns.com/2001.php

That said you can get a pistol starting around $3000 and it may take a year to get it. That’s not the market Ruger is after.

And thats not the market I'm talking about. I'm talking about on demand manufacturing, not custom hand built stuff. As in priced competitively with off the shelf options and lead times of a week rather than eventually. This is the kind of stuff we are doing with 3d printing. I don't think anyone is there yet in the firearms industry but we are getting closer. What I envision is being able to order a rifle with the options you want, a larger selection of saami chamberings, barrel length, profile, 2 or 3 stock options, ect... And the important distinction being priced in the sub $1000 price point with lead times of like 2-3 weeks. None of this is all that difficult to do if you design the business model to run as a flexible assembly line, where you are still building in an assembly line fashion, just with flexibility in which components are going in. This is exactly the same way they run assembly lines in the automotive industry where each vehicle has a build sheet of which options were ordered with it.
 
The "built to order" concept has long since left the auto industry, replaced by mostly 3 trim level options, and a few "special editions" that are modified by other companies/not the oem factories.
Why do you think that is?
:D








That's a rhetorical question, no need to answer it...:uhoh:
 
A “norm” or aftermarket customization is already established for the firearms market. Ruger has been licensing its trademarks to external parties which make parts compatible with Ruger firearms for decades. Ruger has many models with reputations for being “Kit guns,” whether it’s the 10/22, Vaqueros, Mark Series pistols, the AR-556 (the only base receiver Ruger sells), RPR, and now the American.

As a company, sticking to a base platform and allowing external parties to carry the liability and logistics costs, and increased production costs in the case of many of these parts, makes a lot of sense - and in the case of Ruger and their symbiotic external parties, it makes a lot of money too.

Glock has capitalized on the same market philosophy, again, for decades. Glock lives by the old Henry Ford mantra - they’ll sell any pistol you want, as long as it’s black. They have an exceptionally small product offering, with an exceptionally large aftermarket mechanism.

So Ruger and Glock can sit on reduced operating costs and working capital, minimizing their product costs in a volatile and fickle market, sell an “everyman’s firearm” to the Everyman, and let the custom gunsmiths and aftermarket parts manufacturers live a happy life at lower volumes, lower margins, higher costs, and higher risks. They’re simply different business models.

Contrarily - Sig operates relatively on the opposite platform. They offer TONS of model options with high degrees of customization in house. They deal much more closely to a “built to order” mechanism (not sure if it still is, but it used to be their ACTUAL method, where they wouldn’t produce until a dealer/wholesaler placed an order, literal BTO). Naturally, there’s a much higher cost associated with their products, with lower volume sales, and lower margins inherent. Companies like Cooper, Dakota, NULA, and a handful of others also live in this paradigm, and none enjoy the market volume or success which has Ruger.

Some firearms companies - recently to include Ruger - do offer a “custom shop,” while most of these - recently to include Ruger - are simply a mechanism to market up-featured, up-charged Standard models with standard upgrades, rather than a true custom order shop. S&W’s Performance Center used to be a real custom shop, but today, it’s largely just a set of upfeatured, higher cost models, with some additional labor costs involved. So they already have gone away from a true custom shop towards a more “pick from the menu” product line up, pretending it’s a custom shop.

Ruger HAS been recognizing the successes of their “modification ready” products, and moving more and more towards offering a model line-up which is more readily aftermarket customizable, which also reduced their production costs and product costs to the consumer - win/win/win for the consumer, Ruger, and aftermarket manufacturers. The aftermarket options for the American line supersede those of the M77 line after only a few short years compared to the lifecycle of the M77 line, especially in terms of “no gunsmith,” “drop in,” and “owner installed” options.

Especially in the face of the current market trends where the average buyer is a first time buyer, I don’t expect any market influence will change to convert the highly successful - market leading - firearms manufacturer to adopt a boutique customizer operating model any time soon.

Thats the 1960's mentality of manufacturing that innovation is moving us away from. As I said above the auto industry is a perfect example and they are miles out ahead of the firearms industry on this and they do it on the mass production scale.
 
Take your car to any OEM service dept. for glass replacement because you want oem glass and I guarantee that car will end up at Safelite and you'll get what they sell.
Drive around the back of the service area of any big stealership and you'll see drive-up vendor trucks/vans next to vehicles they are working on stuff like AC, etc.

just how it is,
:uhoh:
 
This is exactly the same way they run assembly lines in the automotive industry where each vehicle has a build sheet of which options were ordered with it.

Yeah, that’s not really “custom” rather a “what would you like on your burger, these are the options you can pick from.”

Kind of like The Remington 700 family has CDL, CDL SF, BDL, SPS, SF, VTR, VLS, XCR, etc. none are custom but just different options one can pick from.

Not like you can order a new Chevy with a Coyote engine in it or call up and order an all wheel drive Demon.
 
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