Ruger mini 14 vs AR15 accuracy challenge. Calling all Ruger Mini14 shooters

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benzy2 said:
How much was the stock? You don't add it into your price list. Good groups for sure, especially with bulk ammo. Not sure I would say $600 is inexpensive in this game. In fact its fairly close to the base model AR that has been in comparison in many of these threads. If it is a good deal is up each owner, but in this context I wouldn't put as an overly cheap/inexpensive rifle. In the end if you are happy with how it shoots its a keeper, be it better or worse than what the other guy has.
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Hey Benzy
The stock was 48 bucks plus shipping , and was like brand new in pristine shape , SUPER SUPER tight fit . I wont count that into the price of the gun , cause i turned around and sold that brand new plastic sportster thing on the evilbay for a buy it now of 55 dollars to some GI Joe wanna be . Considered it an even swap , but I'm kinda wishing i would a kept it to play with it , I wanna experiment with some bedding options and i rather screw up some polycarbonate , than my new woody .

I guess I didn't read all the replies close enough , cause i missed the 600 dollar AR or any targets posted by them . If you could post a link to where I could get one . Around these parts a low dollar stripper AR still goes for 800 and up , and when i was weighing my options this summer , they were even more , and were few and far between . All the ones I looked at , were cheesy kits with somebody's left over , worn out , old haggered up parts that didn't work for them so they upgraded , and they all looked like they were cobbled together by 'Joe Dirt' in his trailer house . I even for a brief moment thought of building an AR , but for quality parts , it was looking like 12 bills and up-wards . At that price point , i can drop off my Mini here locally to Accuracy Inc , and get a guaranteed 1 MOA barrel upgrade and work-over , so I would disagree with ya and say 600 bucks IS inexpensive in this game , or at least in my part of the country .

On a side note CDNN has the over priced Ruger Mini 20 round mags for 24 bucks , and the 30 round ( which ruins the balance of the gun IMHO ) for 29 . Thats one gripe i have with the Mini , no inexpensive after market mags that work all though i never tried any of the knockoffs to see for my self . When I shot my posted targets , I was using the 5 round 'California' special mags , they seem to have a better bench balance and feel for any of you Mini shooters .
www.cdnninvestments.com
They also had original Ranch minis for 549 last month .
 
Here is a picture of the Bermuda Regiment

View attachment 454119

Sure looks like they are using Ruger Mini-14's to me. I guess some folks have fielded the Mini.

The track record for the AR has some spots on it as well. It was not perfect when issued and had the backing of the US Government to make it right. I wonder what the Mini would be like with that kind of support?

To me the bottom line is use what you like, but don't try and run down everyone else. Thank god we live in a country where we have so many choices. I have an AR, a Mini, and an AK in my safe. I take them all out and use them as I please. I see things I like about all three and haven't found a single rifle that contains them all, although we are getting closer.

I wish folks wouldn't be so hung up on their pet rifles. This is getting a bit out of hand.

Matt
 
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67rschev,

Sarcasm or not I'll try to respond politely. I do believe krochus posted an AR with surplus parts that would have been in the price point you are talking. Del-ton rifles can be found NIB for about $670 which isn't far off what you paid. I have had very good luck with their products in the past. I had a del-ton build on an RRA stripped lower that I spent $600 on. All the targets for that rifle went with the rifle when Obama prices hit hard but it was an honest 1.5" rifle with the right ammo, with the rare group around or under 1" at 100 yards. Again I can't confirm this anymore as all the targets for that rifle went with it. If you build one today the prices aren't bad for a base model. Stripped lowers can be found under $100 easily. Rifle kits from a few companies run in the $465-$500 price range. I find del-ton again to sell a decent kit for the money. Toss in another $10-$15 for a USGI mag and prices aren't far off the mini. Not saying you can't easily spend 2,3, or 4 times that on an AR, just that a few basic options work out to be in the same ball park as the Mini.

Personally I would like to see some of these "cheesy kits with somebody's left over , worn out , old haggered up parts that didn't work for them so they upgraded , and they all looked like they were cobbled together by 'Joe Dirt' in his trailer house" rifles. Honestly I don't know what you are looking at here, if you mean like this from the factory or the way a user built the rifle. I've looked at a few ARs, bought two so far, and have yet to see any in this state, though I was looking at new parts/rifles. The AR market this summer isn't the current market. There are still people on gunbroker looking to get 2-3x what a rifle is worth (with no bids to boot) but most places are close to or at pre Obama prices. Availability has come back as well. Again I wasn't claiming that the AR is only a $600 rifle, only that a few quality budget options exist to get you in at a price not much out the mini price bracket.
 
Sorry for the perceived sarcasm , sometimes i go off on these D Miller like rants .

OK , I have never seen any of these low dollar kits that you are referring to . If you say i could do one for ~ 700 , I will believe you . In your defense , I looked at my CDNN mailer after i got off line , and they list a generic knock off AR for 750 , so I'm sure its doable . In my defense , many of these Minis posting targets here are early 188 models and such , and they can be had all day for 300 to 400 depending on condition . Bottom end model to bottom end model , they are still twice the price . I would still like a link .

As for the Joe Dirt rifles i looked at , thats exactly what they were , not talking about factory weapons here . Some left over and used pieces some body threw together poorly to make a couple of riffles . This clown had two of them , and it woulda made you cringe to see these poor excuses for an AR , it made me :barf:
 
Where are all these cheap minis?


I look and in the past 10 years of shopping every gun shop and show in a 200 mile radius I saw the cheapest used mini I'd ever seen at a Springdale gunshow last week

priced at a super cheap $575


Here's the thing fellas! A month in and not one single qualifying target has been submitted. We have scoped modded minis getting outshot with a milsurp uppered mixmaster AR shooting irons
 
There hasn't been a stock mini shot yet in this match. One was even "accustrutted"

Either way though yes we shall see.....



I would also like to request that we keep this thread as on topic as possible and not discuss anything but the accuracy angle.
 
Krochus,

I am not sure of the point here. Are trying to prove that AR's are more accurate than Mini's? I don't think anyone would doubt that. I normally follow your line of thinking, but I am not getting this one.

Also in the last ten years if the cheapest used mini you saw was 575 I would say you live in a unique area. A quick check of my local used gun spot lists Mini's from 450 on up depending upon when they were made and what dodahs come with them. Newer 580 series start about 500 and go up from there.

I am confused why AR's would be so cheap in your area, but the "Inferior" Mini's would be so high?

Anyways I will agree with you that the AR are generally More accurate than a Mini 14.
 
I am confused why AR's would be so cheap in your area, but the "Inferior" Mini's would be so high?
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that makes two of us! For some silly reason used rugers get treated as though they're made from gold round these parts. We must have a lot of A team fans or sumpin. From what I see gunbroker prices end up north of 500 as well on actual auctions on used minis.


No the sole reason for this threads existence is because you know as well as I do that about every other week someone with a couple decent 3 shot groups a new mini and a huge superiority complex will start up a thread about how reliable the mini is and how the new 588's aren't inaccurate at all and are just as accurate as an AR.


This thread is to put this assertation to the test , and it's doing a fine job as this thread contains almost all of the mini groups presented on THR to date. Also if you'll read the OP carefully you'll note that the only reason for the other rifles being shot is to simply show that the challange set forth to the mini crowd is indeed achievable
 
In regards to prices...

Only one company manufactures a Mini 14/30/6.8. There is nobody that makes a carbine even similar to the Mini. The next closest would be an M1 Carbine.

Everybody and their mother builds an AR now.

Compare the cost of the Mini to one of the original manufacturers of the AR, and Ruger comes out well ahead. Close to half the price of some.

If Ruger had the competition that the AR manufacturers had, the Mini would have better performance (accuracy), and the price would drop. Same thing with their magazines. If someone built a more reliable aftermarket mag, and sold it for say $15-$20, Ruger would be forced to follow suit.

When it comes to competition, the purchasers will always benefit. AR owners can see this in their weapon. Ruger owners just have to get used to it. Ruger will not improve on performance or price until people are outraged enough to "force" them.

Wyman

BTW- I own 3 Mini-14s. Ranging from a first year 180 series to an early 90s Ranch. I know what they were designed for, and their limitations. For some reason, my experience has been opposite of many Mini owners. My iron-sighted 180 series out shoots my scoped Ranch.

ETA-I have $800 total in the purchase price of all three.
 
Here is a picture of the Bermuda Regiment
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I'd be very interested in knowing how much combat experience those boys have and how many rounds they have fired from those mini's in real combat.....

Say what you will about the AR platform.... the U.S. has been deploying it in actual combat for quite some time....
 
The BR probably has an arsenal equal or less than the Texas or California DOC. It would be interesting how they came to adopt the Mini as their Battle Rifle but proves little since their ammo/training budget is likely less than either of the above state agencys and their history shows no combat in recent yrs.
I don't know if any state DOC still use the Mini, I think Co. went to the AR yrs ago.
Some posts lament rugers cruel fate not being adopted in place of the M-16 all I can say is. If wishes were horses then beggers would ride.
 
KROCHUS
I been watching this thread over the past week or more since i posted my targets and i believe as well as many others that you have proven your point (the AR is more accurate) .Now unless a real marksmen comes up with a super accurate mini the best groups have shown 2 1/2 to 3''groups, including my own. I wanted to post this target showing my groups, that my mini was shooting( same day 100 YRDS ) as you can see they are waaaaay off center ( i was re-sighting in my rifle.) You may or may not care but now i think its important to add only to show consistency.It did not meet the challenge ,slow fire and way more then 5 shots.
Now in your defence i have seen Ar's in the price range close to what you are claiming and i will reluctantly admit ,what i paid for my mini $850 OTD. I have seen AR's for $749 (centerfire) to $999(G.MT) for a basic platform starter. I like the AR's but im not getting rid of my mini and and for what these guns (at least the newer series) group they are decent reliable carbines.You can argue against that all you want but it won't convince any of the current model mini owners that there guns are s..t that is just your view and you are intitled to it, isn't that the way the HIGHROAD works.
 

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Sorry for the perceived sarcasm , sometimes i go off on these D Miller like rants .

OK , I have never seen any of these low dollar kits that you are referring to . If you say i could do one for ~ 700 , I will believe you . In your defense , I looked at my CDNN mailer after i got off line , and they list a generic knock off AR for 750 , so I'm sure its doable . In my defense , many of these Minis posting targets here are early 188 models and such , and they can be had all day for 300 to 400 depending on condition . Bottom end model to bottom end model , they are still twice the price . I would still like a link .

As for the Joe Dirt rifles i looked at , thats exactly what they were , not talking about factory weapons here . Some left over and used pieces some body threw together poorly to make a couple of riffles . This clown had two of them , and it woulda made you cringe to see these poor excuses for an AR , it made me
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No worries about my sarcasm remark. I have troubles online telling when people are being sincere and when they are being sarcastic. In most of these threads I cynically assume its sarcasm.

If you check www.Del-ton.com they sell kits that include everything but the stripped lower and a magazine starting at $465. Model 1 sells kits in the same price range. I know there are a couple other places with kits in the same price range as well. Del-ton also sells complete rifles. Their website has them for a bit of a premium but if you go to www.aimsurplus.com they are selling their carbine model for $670. Elsewhere on the internet you can find Olympic Arms rifles for sub $700 as well, though they have been tougher to find in stock since the Obama rush. As I said the Del-ton rifles and kits I have seen will put them in the at 1-2MOA using standard handguards, a carbine stock, and a standard trigger. Good accuracy with plenty of potential left through a fixed stock, better trigger, and float tube.

I did see the new CDNN flier and did see their base ARs were a bit more than their base Minis. Also so the Ruger Mini mags for a fairly reasonable price. I will say the old Minis aren't a fair representation of today's Minis.

The used market is tough to compare. I haven't seen any $300 minis in my area. If that is the going rate where you are it certainly adds a new twist to the decision but here they are few and far between and when you do find one they are hardly below the cost of a new rifle. That said I know the used market is variable by location so its almost impossible to say those aren't the prices you see on a daily basis. If I could find one for $300, old or not, I would probably give it a try, do most of the inexpensive and home mods, and see how it does.

That is too bad about the AR's you saw junked together. It is why I don't like to buy AR's from gun shows. It is too hard to tell who made the upper or what parts were used. While you can easily see wear or poorly assembled parts its almost impossible to know if the product is as stated. Its the down side to a rifle being as module as the AR.
 
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krochus said:
here it is for $660
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=147682841
You mini guys don't seem to be very savvy shoppers
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You failed to mention the added costs of shipping, transfer fees, and those oh so basic shooting devices: sights. While it's not going to jump to $1k or anything, it's going to get up near $800 I suspect.
I feel they're worth every cent of that $800, too, but you really should mention the extra costs that come along just to get the thing in basic shooting condition.
Round here, I've seen used minis run the gamut from $400 to same as new prices($650+). I'm also not sure why they're so much, as I've seen a rare few ARs come close to that used as well. Not that I see many used ARs at all.


Too bad I own neither of them, the challenge sounds like fun. Closest I have is a 15" bbl Encore pistol in .223, but that's not quite the same thing!
 
Accuracy is fine but what the hunter should be more concerned with is precision. With regard to precision, I don't think anyone would want to stand 200 yards out front of a practiced, determined shooter possessing a cold barreled mini-14.
Our LEO kept a log book of all the different groups he shot with with his mini. Each page was devoted to a particular load. These were 3-5 shot groups going usually about 1-1.5 inches at 50 yards. Very consistent with what has been posted so far. Keep in mind this challenge is really measuring the following things in the following order:
1. Individual Marksmanship
2. The rifle's ability to maintain a steady POI with a barrel that is getting constantly hotter.
 
A mini 14 shooting against an AR-15? Holy smokes..........that's just not going to work! I've owned a pile of both of them and have been a 200,300,600 yard match shooter with the AR. The AR will smoke the Mini ESPECIALLY since you specify that all rounds have to be fired in a short period. That scrawny mini barrel has a mind of its own when it gets hot.

Accuracy wise, I'd place the Mini-14 in with the AK-47. I like both rifles but competing against an AR? That's nonsense.

The Mini is a cool little rifle but I wouldn't waste the ammo in a contest between the AR and the Mini-14.

Flash
 
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I was hoping to see more targets and less fighting.

I saw a post here that said any rifle and some targets goes, so I figure I'd post my Romanian SKS that I shot tonight. This is the first time I fired a rifle like this. The first I shot a gun was in Junior High when I shot a 22 and a shotgun that my dad loaded for me however upstate. I shot a magnum in college but that is arleady 10 years ago. The guy at the gun store who sold me the bullets, while I was on my way to the range, showed me how to load the thing. The range I went to is only 25 yards long . . .






PS - I'm sure the Mini is a fine rifle. Any gun good enough for Hannibal and Murdoch is good enough for me.
 
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The point of this post is not to prove that the AR is more accurate than the Mini. Everyone with a half a functioning brain cell already knows that.

The point is to see how bad Mini's actually are, or depending on your point of view, how good. I see alot of Mini owners talking about how accurate Mini's can be, and I have never seen any proof of it. I know they are light, handy, and reliable, but IMHO 2.5 MOA is pretty crappy for a modern rifle. Hell I can do that with my $300 Romy AK on a good day.

Krochus posted an offer for Mini owners to win 2 free boxes of ammo just by holding 2.5" at 100 yards. If I had a Mini, I would be all over this challenge. If I can't do it in 2 boxes of ammo, it's probably not going to happen. If I do it in less, FREE AMMO! I think that's something we should all appreciate, especially nowadays.

For pete's sake people, if you have a Mini, stop making excuses and go out and shoot!
 
The only reason this thread exists is, IIRC, that we have Mini owners claiming that the Mini-14 is "just as good" as an AR-15, even in the accuracy department.

So, Krochus asked people to post targets of these Minis that shot 2.5" groups. And lets, admit it, 2.5" groups are not a spectacular indication of accuracy.

What resulted was a few targets being posted and a lot of whining about "it isn't FAIR" and "Butbutbut my Mini's 'combat accurate'/'accurate enough'" instead of keeping their mouth shut or posting targets.
 
I am gonna take up the offer this Sat. 188 RR, cold outside or not. (will be). Made me a strut, and put a never used red dot on. Still have use of peep, and if by luck, the thing shoots well I will post both groups. Thanks for the offer cause it got me educated about the tri-rail setup. Now I got a tri tri-rail.:)
 
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"instead of keeping their mouth shut"....

This is when the High Road becomes the Low Road. I am out of this one guys.
 
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