fix
Member
Hans Blix is John Kerry's first cousin?
Rumsfeld caught lying yet again...
- Thread starter JitsuGuy
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bountyhunter
member
TOO LATE
Lewis Carrol said it all more than a century ago in his book: Alice in Wonderland.
"When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to mean. No more, no less."
Like I said, denials work better when everything being said isn't on video tape.
Lewis Carrol said it all more than a century ago in his book: Alice in Wonderland.
"When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to mean. No more, no less."
Like I said, denials work better when everything being said isn't on video tape.
Nope. He said he would not be so certain "that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent". He did not say in the quoted piece that he was certain they were an imminent threat but that he was NOT so certain that they were NOT a threat.
bountyhunter
member
The info I saw was that the UN pulled them out, they were not physically expelled. There was constant dissatisfaction with the inspectors because they weren't finding anything.... possibly because the stuff was long gone. They assumed it was not being found because Iraqi's were hiding it, but they claimed there was nothing there. At this point, we don't know for sure but we do know this: Bottom line, the scientists who worked there agreed on one thing: standing orders were that weapons programs are on hold until inspectors leave. The inspectors were the ideal (and cheap) way to keep Hussein toothless and were accomplishing that end.
bountyhunter
member
Well, then you got the point because the quote I referenced my quote to also says nothing (no matter how many times you say it):
"He said that he didn't say "immediate threat".
The only time in the quote that he used immediate was:
"No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat"
GOT IT?
bountyhunter
member
THANK YOU! This is the perfect companion to my post just above this one.
ojibweindian
Member
Does Kerry go well with maple syrup, or boysenberry?
It was up to Iraq, according to the terms of the cease fire agreements, to prove it did not have WMD. For whatever reason, they failed to comply. So, we kicked Iraq's tuckus.
If Kerry were in charge, we'd be smooching ass, and singing praises to the french.
Personally, I'd rather have a pres. with a pair than a wanna be with gimme medals and is friends with the french.
It was up to Iraq, according to the terms of the cease fire agreements, to prove it did not have WMD. For whatever reason, they failed to comply. So, we kicked Iraq's tuckus.
If Kerry were in charge, we'd be smooching ass, and singing praises to the french.
Personally, I'd rather have a pres. with a pair than a wanna be with gimme medals and is friends with the french.
In September 2002 (9/20/02), Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld claimed in an interview with Lehrer that Iraq "threw the [U.N.] inspectors out" in 1998, and that in 1990 Iraq had plans for "invading Saudi Arabia, which they were ready to do."
Both lies.
fix:
Regardless of how many times this ludicrous claim is dragged out, the record clearly shows that Saddam did not kick out the inspectors. In December 1998, the U.N. inspectors were not thrown out; they were pulled out by UNSCOM chief Richard Butler prior to a U.S. bombing campaign in Iraq.
CIA wartime propaganda? Give me a break. Just to give you one example of the howlers contained in this CIA press release:
This claim was utterly debunked. See The CIA's Aluminum Tubes' Assessment: Is the Nuclear Case Going Down the Tubes? by By David Albright, The Institute for Science and International Security, March 10, 2003.
"The vast majority of gas centrifuge experts in this country and abroad who are knowledgeable about this case reject the CIA's case and do not believe that the tubes are specifically designed for gas centrifuges. In addition, International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors have consistently expressed skepticism that the tubes are for centrifuges. In his February 7, 2003 report to the UN Security Council, Mohamed ElBaradei, the IAEA's Director General, said: 'Based on available evidence, the IAEA team has concluded that Iraq's efforts to import these aluminum tubes were not likely to have been related to the manufacture of centrifuges.' "
(I would love to see the classified internal reports. Who knows? Maybe 50 years from now heavily redacted declassified versions will be released for the historians.)
Both lies.
fix:
Regardless of how many times this ludicrous claim is dragged out, the record clearly shows that Saddam did not kick out the inspectors. In December 1998, the U.N. inspectors were not thrown out; they were pulled out by UNSCOM chief Richard Butler prior to a U.S. bombing campaign in Iraq.
CIA wartime propaganda? Give me a break. Just to give you one example of the howlers contained in this CIA press release:
This claim was utterly debunked. See The CIA's Aluminum Tubes' Assessment: Is the Nuclear Case Going Down the Tubes? by By David Albright, The Institute for Science and International Security, March 10, 2003.
"The vast majority of gas centrifuge experts in this country and abroad who are knowledgeable about this case reject the CIA's case and do not believe that the tubes are specifically designed for gas centrifuges. In addition, International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors have consistently expressed skepticism that the tubes are for centrifuges. In his February 7, 2003 report to the UN Security Council, Mohamed ElBaradei, the IAEA's Director General, said: 'Based on available evidence, the IAEA team has concluded that Iraq's efforts to import these aluminum tubes were not likely to have been related to the manufacture of centrifuges.' "
(I would love to see the classified internal reports. Who knows? Maybe 50 years from now heavily redacted declassified versions will be released for the historians.)
TaurusCIA's sig:
Utter poppycock, TaurusCIA. There is not a single shred of evidence that Tjhomas Jefferson ever wrote or said those words.
See http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html But watch out since Guncite is "biased."
Utter poppycock, TaurusCIA. There is not a single shred of evidence that Tjhomas Jefferson ever wrote or said those words.
See http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html But watch out since Guncite is "biased."
What has been said about Bush's premediated intentions might be true. But one intention not really discussed is the geo-political impact of invading Iraq.
Bottom line, the beast (that's us) is loose in the heart of the Arab/Muslim world.
Iran is flanked on both sides now. Saddam is history. Syria cannot be too comfortable. Libya has put it's tail between its legs and is licking our hand. And much of the Gulf states are under our sway. Egypt still likes our massive foreign aid.
So, in the end all of this may be good regardless of what you think Bush's intentions are. Bush is positioned to smash any of them on short notice.
And, of course, this probably makes Israel happy to have it's chief ally and patron hanging in the neighborhood. It is a little like the hammer and the anvil.
Bottom line, the beast (that's us) is loose in the heart of the Arab/Muslim world.
Iran is flanked on both sides now. Saddam is history. Syria cannot be too comfortable. Libya has put it's tail between its legs and is licking our hand. And much of the Gulf states are under our sway. Egypt still likes our massive foreign aid.
So, in the end all of this may be good regardless of what you think Bush's intentions are. Bush is positioned to smash any of them on short notice.
And, of course, this probably makes Israel happy to have it's chief ally and patron hanging in the neighborhood. It is a little like the hammer and the anvil.
Bounty are you so well educated that you can't understand that:
more immediate is not the same as immediate
No, It's not semantics it is just basic English.
Let's throw out all the context of the words around immediate so bounty will be right. Ok guys. We can do that for good old bounty, can't we?
And if the original quoted material doesn't work, bounty will go try to find some that does.
more immediate is not the same as immediate
No, It's not semantics it is just basic English.
Let's throw out all the context of the words around immediate so bounty will be right. Ok guys. We can do that for good old bounty, can't we?
And if the original quoted material doesn't work, bounty will go try to find some that does.
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fix
Member
Oh forget it. This is not worth my time.
GoRon
Member
Exactly moa, this was a strategic move of brilliance. The libs just wanted to let the lifelong bureaucrats play word games while the forces of evil strenghthened.
ie:
ie:
Intune
Member
Um, Idd, check these sources about the T.J. quote- 4 & 20 blackbirds make a pretty good pie.
The Patriot Underground
... It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson, 1787. "The strongest reason for the
people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to ...
Description: "The Patriot Underground is an on and offline organization , of true AMERICAN Patriots ...
Category: Regional > North America > ... > Militia Movement > Groups
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/1691/ - 11k - Cached - Similar pages
Thomas Jefferson Quotes and Quotations - BrainyQuote
Thomas Jefferson The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep
and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in ...
www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/ t/thomasjeff100991.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages
United States Constitution Amendments - Article II
... The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms
is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government ...
www.barefootsworld.net/article2.html - 18k - Cached - Similar pages
the Citizens Militia of Maryland
... evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." -- George
Washington, "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep ...
www.expage.com/page/citizensmilitiaofmaryland - 13k - Cached - Similar pages
The Second Amendment
... William Pangman "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep
and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in ...
www.globaldialog.com/liberty/second.htm - 3k - Cached - Similar pages
Free2Code Forums - User Profiles [Free2Code.net]
... What's the point of it if no one can see it? - Jordan A Freeland "The strongest
reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last ...
forums.free2code.net/view.php?tid=30243&from=0 - 36k - Cached - Similar pages
Free2Code Forums - Libya [Free2Code.net]
... See http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106263,00.html. - Jordan A Freeland "The
strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is ...
forums.free2code.net/view.php?tid=23687&from=0 - 39k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from forums.free2code.net ]
Thomas Jefferson - Quotations
... The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms
is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.". ...
www.usiap.org/Legacy/Quotes/ThomasJefferson.html - 12k - Cached - Similar pages
Welcome to the "Chuck Baldwin Live" Radio Talk Show Home Page
... Listen to Jefferson: "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny ...
www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/milit.html - 4k - Cached - Similar pages
Guns and Gun Control
... No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.The strongest reason for the
people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to ...
busboy.sped.ukans.edu/~adams/gunquote.htm - 8k - Cached - Similar pages
The Patriot Underground
... It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson, 1787. "The strongest reason for the
people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to ...
Description: "The Patriot Underground is an on and offline organization , of true AMERICAN Patriots ...
Category: Regional > North America > ... > Militia Movement > Groups
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/1691/ - 11k - Cached - Similar pages
Thomas Jefferson Quotes and Quotations - BrainyQuote
Thomas Jefferson The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep
and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in ...
www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/ t/thomasjeff100991.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages
United States Constitution Amendments - Article II
... The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms
is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government ...
www.barefootsworld.net/article2.html - 18k - Cached - Similar pages
the Citizens Militia of Maryland
... evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." -- George
Washington, "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep ...
www.expage.com/page/citizensmilitiaofmaryland - 13k - Cached - Similar pages
The Second Amendment
... William Pangman "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep
and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in ...
www.globaldialog.com/liberty/second.htm - 3k - Cached - Similar pages
Free2Code Forums - User Profiles [Free2Code.net]
... What's the point of it if no one can see it? - Jordan A Freeland "The strongest
reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last ...
forums.free2code.net/view.php?tid=30243&from=0 - 36k - Cached - Similar pages
Free2Code Forums - Libya [Free2Code.net]
... See http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106263,00.html. - Jordan A Freeland "The
strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is ...
forums.free2code.net/view.php?tid=23687&from=0 - 39k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from forums.free2code.net ]
Thomas Jefferson - Quotations
... The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms
is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.". ...
www.usiap.org/Legacy/Quotes/ThomasJefferson.html - 12k - Cached - Similar pages
Welcome to the "Chuck Baldwin Live" Radio Talk Show Home Page
... Listen to Jefferson: "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny ...
www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/milit.html - 4k - Cached - Similar pages
Guns and Gun Control
... No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.The strongest reason for the
people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to ...
busboy.sped.ukans.edu/~adams/gunquote.htm - 8k - Cached - Similar pages
All it makes is a cowpie.
All you've proved is that an urban legend has legs on the Internet. A lot of people put it on their pro-gun website because they saw it somewhere and failed to verify it.
There is no original source for the quote. It's not in any of TJ's papers.
The "quote" is BS. (Kinda like Saddam's nukes...)
Prove me wrong. I'm throwing down the gauntlet.
RGR
Member
Who exactly are the evildoers?
How did our oil get under their sand?
How is it good that the US poised to smash other countries? Are the lives of "their" children, "their" teenage draftees, and the tortured dissidents in US "ally" countries such as Uzbekistan and Pakistan worth less than the convenience of US SUV drivers and the profits of US based oil and auto companies? Anyone who believes the answer is yes, is implicitly supporting evil. I am not calling anyone names, I am calling you OUT.
Funny how the list of countries you consider bad is from the same one the State Department uses. The US government supports evildoers whenever it furthers the ends of US elites, and condemns them when they won't play by Washington's rules. That's the standard, not your vaunted "evil." It's pure realpolitik -- might makes right. And you (Moa, GoRon, and TaurusCIA) appear to support it.
Yes, this is the larger question. If Bush et al. lied about the reasons for the war, why did they lie, and what were the real reasons? Most US citizens don't really want it thrust in their faces that the US dominates other countries militarily for economic reasons, that blood has been and will be spilled for CHEAP oil, etc.
How did our oil get under their sand?
How is it good that the US poised to smash other countries? Are the lives of "their" children, "their" teenage draftees, and the tortured dissidents in US "ally" countries such as Uzbekistan and Pakistan worth less than the convenience of US SUV drivers and the profits of US based oil and auto companies? Anyone who believes the answer is yes, is implicitly supporting evil. I am not calling anyone names, I am calling you OUT.
Funny how the list of countries you consider bad is from the same one the State Department uses. The US government supports evildoers whenever it furthers the ends of US elites, and condemns them when they won't play by Washington's rules. That's the standard, not your vaunted "evil." It's pure realpolitik -- might makes right. And you (Moa, GoRon, and TaurusCIA) appear to support it.
gunbot
Member
Cheap oil? At over $3.00 per gallon for gas in some places in the US?
Something in your arguement doesn't compute.
Something in your arguement doesn't compute.
Nope...I personally think that both parties could take lessons in how to win friends and influence people. Presidents Kennedy, Johnson, Bush and Senator Kerry included.
It is often (how you say what you say as much as what you say) that helps or hurts your message.
Even if the elephants and donkeys are both lying (they would never do that
) I like the elephant's lies more.
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Intune
Member
Debarred the Use of Arms
This one is tricky because the first part of it is authentic and the second part might be. But of this we are certain: the two parts have been spliced together. It is quoted in the following form:
"No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
The first sentence-- with the word "freeman" connected together into one word-- appears in Jefferson's first draft of a Constitution for the State of Virginia. The second sentence, however, DOES NOT appear with the first. It sounds a lot like Jefferson, but I have not been able to locate it. This quote is considered briefly under Gun Control.
The second sentence of the above quote was included in the December 1992 issue of Analog Magazine, which is a publication devoted mainly to science fiction. The original source was not listed. Although Analog is a reputable science fiction magazine, we could not, of course, accept it as an authoritative source for the writings of Thomas Jefferson. Moreover, it was quoted with a slight change of wording that, in fact, sounds a bit more like Jefferson:
"The most important reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, if necessary, at last resort to protect themselves from tyranny in government."
All of this shows how easily quotations become altered and the importance of referring to verifiable sources for those quotations that claim Jefferson as their author.
Crow, it's what's for breakfast!
Thank you Sir, may I have another! Now about those nukes..."Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day." --Thomas Jefferson to John Norvell, 1807. ME 11:224
"As for what is not true, you will always find abundance in the newspapers." --Thomas Jefferson to Barnabas Bidwell, 1806. ME 11:118
"Advertisements... contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper." --Thomas Jefferson to Nathaniel Macon, 1819. ME 15:179
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GoRon
Member
It was made clear early on the reasons for Saddam's removal.
12 years of UN violations, not obeying the cease fire agreement. It was Saddams responsability to prove he disarmed.
Human rights violations on a massive scale.
Add to that his part in the assasination plot against a former President.
Oh yea, don't forget the importance of stability in the region that supplies us with about 20-25% of our oil.
Like the President said, we are not going to sit around and wait for the threat to become imminent.
12 years of UN violations, not obeying the cease fire agreement. It was Saddams responsability to prove he disarmed.
Human rights violations on a massive scale.
Add to that his part in the assasination plot against a former President.
Oh yea, don't forget the importance of stability in the region that supplies us with about 20-25% of our oil.
Like the President said, we are not going to sit around and wait for the threat to become imminent.
joab
Member
Even if the first quote is not authentis the second seems to verify TJ's feelings on the matter
Condensed version
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