Rumsfeld caught lying yet again...

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freewheeling has it......

Where Clarke is concerned:
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"Clarke is simply a blindered and rather embittered fellow, because his ties to an outmoded intelligence method called his professional credentials into question. It was a battle within the intelligence community that has been won by the "err on the side of caution" crowd, as well it should."
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From AP:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...n_go_pr_wh/terrorism_adviser&cid=544&ncid=716

....Kerry's adviser on national security, Rand Beers, is a close associate of Clarke's and held the job as terrorism adviser under President Bush during part of 2002. Clarke quotes Beers in the book as asking his advice when Beers considered quitting because "they're using the war on terror politically."

Bartlett, the White House communications director, noted Clarke's friendship with Beers and the upcoming presidential election.

"We believe the timing is questionable," Bartlett said. "When (Clarke) left office, he had every opportunity" to make any grievances known.
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"Lying" works for the left, so they naturally assume everyone does it.:D
 
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kbsrn ~ check your PMs.

pax

It's a rare person who wants to hear what he doesn't want to hear. -- Dick Cavett
 
Wow, these guys seem like suicide bombers. They destroy their own reputation in an attempt to be part of the angry left. Both Lieberman and Biden :what: state that Clarke's assertions are not only false, but devoid of fact. :what:
 
Both Lieberman and Biden state that Clarke's assertions are not only false, but devoid of fact.

They did? Source?

Clinton ignores terrorism for 8 years,

"Clarke says the last time the CIA had picked up a similar level of chatter was in December, 1999, when Clarke was the terrorism czar in the Clinton White House. Clarke says Mr. Clinton ordered his Cabinet to go to battle stations--meaning, they went on high alert, holding meetings nearly every day. That, Clarke says, helped thwart a major attack on Los Angeles International Airport, when an al Qaeda operative was stopped at the border with Canada, driving a car full of explosives."

Glad someone was minding the store in December, 1999.

I guess Richard Clarke, the latest Daniel Ellsberg wannabe, will have his moment in the sun.

Daniel Ellsberg was a Vietnam War veteran who initially supported the war but then turned against it. In 1971 he leaked the Pentagon Papers, a seven-thousand-page top-secret United States Department of Defense history of the United States involvement in the Vietnam War from 1945 to 1971. The documents revealed, among other things, that the government had planned to go to Vietnam even when president Lyndon Johnson was promising not to, and that there was no plan to end the war.

Lying to the people in order to manipulate the country into a war.....hhmmm......call me crazy, but I'm starting to see a pattern here.

The US is on the same moral plane with two totalitarian states who were or are avowed enemies of the United States?

That wasn't really his argument. I think his argument was more about double standards, not moral equivalency.

most of the CIA (including its director) has pretty high confidence that there was a long-standing link between the secular and the religious totalitarians [i.e., between Saddam and Bin Laden]. Why wouldn't there be? In fact, UBL all-but-mentions Saddam by name in his Declaration of War on the US, essentially reiterating the longstanding Arab tradition (couched this time in religious Islamic terms) that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

How do you know what "most of the CIA" thinks? And what kind of "long-standing link"?
Here is Bin Laden's Declaration of War. There's no mention of Saddam, either directly or indirectly.

The Czech intelligence continues to believe that Atta was [in Prague] to contact a bag man from the Mukhabarat.

How do we know this? And on what basis does Czech intelligence purportedly still hold this finding? Because a man who looks like Atta and an Iraqi gov official supposedly did lunch? I'm not claiming there was no link between Saddam and Al Qaeda; I just haven't seen it.

I think it's fair to say that President Bush did not react strongly enough to terrorism prior to 9-11. So what?

Protecting the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic should be job one. The picture that emerges from reading James Bovard, Richard Clarke, Karen Kiatkowski and quite a few others is that the Bush team were alseep at the switch. These are serious allegations with factual evidence that cannot be dismissed as just the plaintive whining of leftwing Gore supporters who just hate America first.

Considering the public opposition to invading Afghanistan and Iraq AFTER 9-11,

Public opposition? On the contrary, the American people supported the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq by substantial majorities. 80% in favor of attacking the Taliban, about 65% in favor of attacking Iraq.

No, failure to stop the attacks rests squarely with the Clinton Administration

Regardless of what Clinton did, or Carter and Stansfield Turner did, or the Church Committee did way back whenever that supposedly hamstrung our intelligence agencies, it is uncontroverted that our intelligence agencies were picking up intel in the spring and summer of 2001 that the US would be attacked. Blaming Clinton for the failure of the political leadership in the summer of 2001 doesn't cut it, no matter how much David Horowitz beats the "blame Clinton" drum.

I've been watching Soros and other anti-war folks make this claim for over a year, and I have yet to see them demonstrate that a single person in the Administration ever claimed that Iraq posed an imminent threat.

Not sure if anyone ever specifically used the I-word, but that sure was the picture that he, Cheney, Rice and and Rummy painted for us - flasely, as it turned out.

In a Sept. 7, 2002, news conference with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, Mr. Bush said: "I would remind you that when the inspectors first went into Iraq and were denied -- finally denied access [in 1998], a report came out of the Atomic -- the IAEA that they were six months away from developing a weapon."

The International Atomic Energy Agency stated that a report cited by President Bush as evidence that Iraq in 1998 was "six months away" from developing a nuclear weapon does not exist. "There's never been a report like that issued from this agency," stated Mark Gwozdecky, the IAEA's chief spokesman. "We've never put a time frame on how long it might take Iraq to construct a nuclear weapon in 1998," said the spokesman of the agency charged with assessing Iraq's nuclear capability for the United Nations.

"I don't know what more evidence we need," said the president, defending his administration's case that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was building weapons of mass destruction.

Well, I suppose some truthful evidence might be nice, but instead we got claims about Niger uranium, aluminum tubes, a Saddam-Al Qaeda conspiracy, and a six-month windows til Saddam gets Nukes. All BS.
 
idd:

I notice that you haven't provided any evidence of a Bush administration official arguing that Iraq was an "imminent threat," which probably won't dissuade you from using that canard until the cows come home.

Clarke was terrorism Czar under Clinton, yet fails to seriously fault Clinton for having blown opportunities to kill Bin Laden on numerous occasions, as well as Saddam. He was demoted when the Bush people came in and given a task that he obviously thought beneath him. He had a peeve that there was no Saddam/AQ link and was given the task of looking for evidence of such a link, something he clearly regards as insulting. In other words he was given the task of challenging his own prejudgments, and what he apparently did was go out and compile what he considered evidence that there was no link. In other words he refused to do what was asked of him, not to "manufacture evidence" but to look for evidence he didn't think was there. This borders on insubordination. He clearly thought he ought to have been employed creating a "grand strategy," not doing this lowly gumshoe work. His methodological ineptitude prevented him from seeing that this is a standard way to test an hypothesis, and is really rather straightforward scientific method. Clearly the Administration could see he wasn't doing what was asked, and their big mistake was that they didn't fire him on the spot. He was essentially incompetent, and this entire tirade of a book is simply a monumental example of incompetence.

(And no, I am NOT saying that they should have fired him for not finding the evidence of a link. They should have fired him for not looking for it. The fellow is apparently so dense he can't even tell the difference.)

How do you know what "most of the CIA" thinks? And what kind of "long-standing link"? Here is Bin Laden's Declaration of War. There's no mention of Saddam, either directly or indirectly.

There have been numerous articles about the CIA's findings regarding these links, but you might start with Tenet's own recent testimony on the matter (and note that Clarke claims that Tenet agreed with him, which he certainly did not), and several articles by Stephen Hayes in The Weekly Standard. The original one is here, but he also wrote a follow up to answer the inevitable attacks from the "see no evil" crowd. The Atta/Prague connection was covered by Edward Epstein in Slate, which also had followups. Almost a total media blackout on this, but it was covered extensively in the blogs. We all watched the story get buried, either through laziness or simply because it challenged the prevailing consensus or media bias. Whatever.

As for your link, that was to some fatwah issued in 1998. The original Declaration of War was issued in 1996. I'm afraid I only have a hard copy of it, but I'm sure it's up on the web somewhere. Here's the relevant part in a directive given his followers as part of his Declaration of War Against the Americans on August 8, 1996:

Ibn Taymiyyah, after mentioning the Moguls (Tatar) and their behavior in changing the law of Allah, stated that: the ultimate aim of pleasing Allah, raising His word, instituting His religion and obeying His messenger (ALLAH'S BLESSING AND SALUTATIONS ON HIM) is to fight the enemy, in every aspects (sic) and in a complete manner; if the danger to the religion from not fighting is greater than that of fighting, then it is a duty to fight them even if the intention of some of the fighter (sic) is not pure i.e., fighting for the sake of leadership (personal gain) or if they do not observe some of the rules and commandments of Islam. To repel the greatest of the two dangers on the expense of the lesser one is an Islamic principle which should be observed. It was the tradition of the Sunnah (Ahlul Sunnah) to join and invade fight (sic) with the righteous and non righteous men. [Note, this is a reference to the Sunni founders, and their doctrines, and specifically discusses the notion of joining forces "of the righteous and non-righteous" under a Sunni tribal banner.] Allah may support this religion by righteous and non righteous people as told by the prophet (ALLAH'S BLESSING AND SALUTATIONS ON HIM).

I'm going to assume I don't need to interpret this point by point, because the meaning is fairly clear. By this time, according to the memo that Hayes outlines, the cooperation between Saddam and AQ was about three years old. The burden of proof is on those who contend that there is no Saddam/AQ link, not the other way around as has been portrayed, and as Clarke presumes in his preposterous and unsupported allegations. The Bush people simply tried to get him to begin implementing an intelligence method that was appropriate to the threat, and he refused.
 
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7.62FMJ:

Wow, these guys seem like suicide bombers. They destroy their own reputation in an attempt to be part of the angry left. Both Lieberman and Biden state that Clarke's assertions are not only false, but devoid of fact.

That's an excellent analogy! I think he was incompetent in the first place, so about his only option was to "go partisan." I regard what he's done as bordering on being traitorous. The consequences, should the fragmented perspective he and Kerry espouse, win out over the comprehensive strategy posed by the Bush people, couldn't possibly be more dire. The link between AQ and Saddam was a fact, established by lots of evidence (outlined in the Stephen Hayes article) that Clarke studiously ignored. What an utter disgrace!

By the way, I have a lot of stuff on my blog about this issue when it emerged back in November, last. Here's a link to the archive for the month. It has a number of posts, along with links to articles. The whole controversy got buried, so deeply that Clarke can now come on and be dismissive about the whole idea of a Saddam/AQ link and no one even questions it.
 
Where is Richard Clarke's responsibility in all of this? If he was so convinced that the Bush Administration was ignoring a very dangerous threat, why didn't he act more strongly? He should have been standing on Pres. Bush desk if was so sure of OBL and friends were the real danger.

No, he waits until March 2004 to make his allegations and peddle his book during a Presidental election year. Smells like rubbish to me.

By the way, I have seen Clarke interviewed on TV many times in the past because of his so-called expertise about terrorism, and he never made any mention of his current allegations. Not even a hint that I can recall.
 
I notice that you haven't provided any evidence of a Bush administration official arguing that Iraq was an "imminent threat," which probably won't dissuade you from using that canard until the cows come home.

freewheeling, I for one have never claimed that the Bush adminsitration ever argued that Saddam was an "imminent threat." You might want to re-read my posts.

The original one is here, but he also wrote a follow up to answer the inevitable attacks from the "see no evil" crowd.

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html
The original Declaration of War was issued in 1996. I'm afraid I only have a hard copy of it, but I'm sure it's up on the web somewhere.

OK, found it. p://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html

No reference to Saddam, eith directly or indirectly. No reference to Bin Laden receiving support from Saddam.

Clarke was terrorism Czar under Clinton, yet fails to fault Clinton for having blown opportunities to kill Bin Laden on numerous occasions, as well as Saddam. ... He was essentially incompetent, and this entire tirade of a book is simply a monumental example of incompetence.

How can you have already read his book? It was just published *this morning*. Clearly you're just spinning.
 
idd:

No reference to Saddam, eith directly or indirectly. No reference to Bin Laden receiving support from Saddam.

Could you possibly be more dense? Of course he didn't mention the fellow by name. We're talking about a warrior cult that wasn't about to telegraph it's agenda to everyone, but he clearly offers justification from the Koran and from Muslim and Arab history for a cooperation between the righteous and the non-righteous, and even places it in the context of a Sunni tribal cooperative venture. For heaven sake, the stakes are pretty damned high, isn't in about time you started using a little common sense? Moreover, I think we can assume that if given half an opportunity he'll even cooperate with N. Korea, using largely the same rationalizations. Try looking for that forest hiding behind all the trees.

How can you have already read his book? It was just published *this morning*. Clearly you're just spinning.

Who said I read the book? I'm assuming that the book is largely on the theme that he expressed on Sixty Minutes, and that if he had had any factual revelations he'd have referenced them in the interview.

My theory is that there are certain people who, by their nature, refuse to see the larger totalitarian pattern here. It's part and parcel of their denial of the global predicament we're in vis terrorism, and the reason is that it directly conflicts with their short term social program. The same thing happened in the runup to WWII with the French Socialist led by Paul Faure, and their commitment to wishful thinking went so deep that they began to justify and excuse the early measures of the Holocaust.

I'm seeing precisely the same pattern today, and the implications are just as dire as they were in the late 1930s. More so, in fact.

So what I'm saying is what Clarke is selling is a bunch of BS and I'm not buying. - Roger Simon
 
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Where is Richard Clarke's responsibility in all of this?

He lamented that he did not get to meet with the department heads but had to meet with their reps. It stands to reason that if he had made a good case that they would have taken it up the ladder.

Is he actually saying that he told them and they were clearly aware of the danger and they chose to let OBL attack the US so Bush could go back and finish Iraq for his pappy. :confused:


No, he waits until March 2004 to make his allegations and peddle his book during a Presidental election year. Smells like rubbish to me.

Smells like kerryberry pie to me. Help my buddy and sell my book.
 
To reach the state of Zen our Sec. of Defense is in, you must unlearn all the known knowns and comprehend the unknown knowns. Only then will you thwart the ninjas which climb the walls of your soul and poke it with katanas.
 
He lamented that he did not get to meet with the department heads but had to meet with their reps. It stands to reason that if he had made a good case that they would have taken it up the ladder.
NON-SEQUITUR. He made a good case, but it was not a case for a course of action that was of any interest to the administration. That's the point he made: during the hated Clinton years, there were daily meetings with the cabinet and the heads of the intel agencies and they were asked "What do you know about AQ?" and "What are you doing about this?" (with respect to OBL and Al Qaeda). Clinton knew OBL was grave threat and authorized two different CIA attempts to kill him in Afghanistan. They were every bit as successful as Bush's attempts to get him have been (failed). The point is, that under Clinton, getting AQ and OBl was job one. Clark's gripe is that under Bush, getting something on Hussein and Iraq was job one and the WOT was number two. The big picture is, that the first major attempt at an attack by AQ on our mainland under Clinton where they tried to bring explosives in from canada and get LAX was thwarted. Period. The major attack against us under Bush was completely missed by our "security". You can slice it any way you want, but that is the truth and Clark is saying that it is a result of what each admin was focused on at the time. As for Clark selling books, maybe he is but he is also a registered republican who served under Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and Bush II. he was regarded as the Czar of Terrorism and GWB though highly of him (at the time), so this guy was there and is giving first person account. So far, the rebuttal from the white house via Condoleeza is that "He (Clark) doesn't know what he's talking about." Well, I guess that puts Clark in his place......:eek:
 
freewheeling, I for one have never claimed that the Bush adminsitration ever argued that Saddam was an "imminent threat." You might want to re-read my posts.
Really? So when Bush kept screaming:

"There is no time! We must act now!" (Check the videotape)

We are to be snowed into believeing that does not convey an "imminent threat"? If so, we would have top conclude that Bush was panic-stricken over a "non imminent" threat....... or an "imminent threat" which did not exist. Not sure which is worse.......

And when Condoleeza Rice kept threatening with: "the only proof YOU PEOPLE will believe is a mushroom cloud!", she was referring to the non-imminent type of nuclear devices that explode slowly and give you plenty of time to take cover?

Now I understand... nobody in the administration implied anything about an imminent threat.:barf:
 
NON-SEQUITUR. He made a good case, but it was not a case for a course of action that was of any interest to the administration.

At most this is simply a conflict of paradigms, and they weren't interested in a paradigm that parsed or fragmented the various interests into discrete units to be dealt with as a criminal justice problem (which is what Kerry and Clarkes are, essentially, arguing). I don't blame them at all. it was a paradigm that had simply not responded appropriately to the threat. Clarke presents this, rather dishonestly, as a flaw in competence or focus. It is, instead, a fundamental disagreement about outlook. And the very fact that he doesn't recognize this suggests that he has missed the larger pattern.

"There is no time! We must act now!" (Check the videotape)

We are to be snowed into believeing that does not convey an "imminent threat"? If so, we would have top conclude that Bush was panic-stricken over a "non imminent" threat....... or an "imminent threat" which did not exist. Not sure which is worse...


Well, the reality is that they would have prefered to redifine what an imminent threat was, because it has a specific policy definition. It essentially says that if you know the Imperial Japanese Airforce is massing for an attack on "The Pearl" you're justified in pre-emption. They felt that definition was not adequate in an age of terrorism, and I agree with them. They knew what "imminent threat" actually meant in policy terms, and you, apparently, do not. And because they knew, they also knew enough not to misuse the phrase. There just isn't much more to say.

Accuracy and precision are important in such circumnstances. Indeed, I can't think of anything that's more important. If you really give this an honest and unbiase perusal I think you'll see that they took the only responsible option that was open to them.
 
Yup, freewheeling.......

"there are certain people who, by their nature, refuse to see the larger totalitarian pattern here. It's part and parcel of their denial of the global predicament we're in vis terrorism, and the reason is that it directly conflicts with their short term social program."
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That's a pretty fair assessment of the problem.;)
 
Well, the reality is that they would have prefered to redifine what an imminent threat was, because it has a specific policy definition.

UH-HUH..... and it seems the semantic argument has run about 100 fruitless laps and come back around to where it started:

"When I use a word (or, in this case a phrase) it means exactly what I want it to mean... no more, no less." (Lewis Carrol)

The point is that "imminent threat" has a very well understood meaning amongst people who don't spend most of their lives equivocating so that they can slip off the culpability hook. Imminent threat means exactly that... a threat which is IMMINENT. And the Bush adminsitration used Iraq as the boogie man to justify a rush to war with a variety of "imminent threat" cards from stockpiles of VX to supporting Al Qaeda to a mushroom cloud on the horizon.... and they now want to split hairs and run from what they said. Whatever, they've shoveled it so deep for a year I haven't seen the sun in months. But for the record, Bush is still lying with his campaign ads tying the Iraq war to 9/11 so we can conclude that they knew then and they know now exactly what they are doing when engaging in this propoganda excercise.

Right...... they never said or implied anything about an imminent threat... and besides, what does "imminent threat" mean anyway? One man's imminent threat might be another man's long term worry... and yet another man's minor concern.... yes, let's keep the thesaurus handy for the next time the Bush Admin needs wiggle room so they can run away from some of their public statements. Anyway, it's not important that we keep track of what they said last week... no reason to dwell on the past when there are new and exciting lies to be told.:barf:
 
UH-HUH..... and it seems the semantic argument has run about 100 fruitless laps and come back around to where it started:

Not really. You have yet to acknowledge that they DIDN'T CLAIM THE THREAT WAS IMMINENT. So it, in fact, hasn't quite come "full circle." If you want to argue that they claimed the threat was "grave and growing" then fine, I have no problem. But the fact of the matter is that we invaded Iraq, according to the President's own words, TO PREVENT A GRAVE AND GROWING THREAT FROM BECOMING IMMINENT, and there just isn't a more straightforward way to put it. You're arguing that that he claimed something he didn't claim. End of story.

The point is that "imminent threat" has a very well understood meaning amongst people who don't spend most of their lives equivocating so that they can slip off the culpability hook. Imminent threat means exactly that... a threat which is IMMINENT.

I'm afraid I just can't help you. You're talking in circles. Assuming "imminent" means that the enemy is "on the verge of attacking us" (has amassed a strike force that has begun a countdown, or is related to a date certain) no one in the Bush Administration made such a claim. There is even one instance when the Bush press Secretary referred to Iraq as an "imminent threat." But not to the US. He was talking specifically about Turkey. Not that they weren't ready or willing to contribute to an attack on the US sometime in the next few months, and that the urgency would not continue to grow as time passed (which is precisely what Tenet's memo on the matter stated). The fact is that the public does NOT, nor do you, have a very precise definition in their minds as to what "imminent" means, but the Bush folks did, which is why they didn't use the term. Verstehen?

You can't argue, on the one hand, that precision about language is important (which is what all the wrangling about "Bush said this" or "Rumsfeld said that" is about) and then argue that when you wish to make a point that blurs the line between fact and fiction that precision isn't important. What the heck's the matter with you?

You know, the left could probably make some decent points of criticism about all of this, if they didn't insist on overstating every single case.
 
bountyhunter

The libs keep hammering a point that they've completely invented in their own minds. Your hangup about "Imminent" one example. Not to be presumptous, but I refer you back to my very own words on page 4 of this very circular argument.....

Re: "Imminent"...You can parse each sentence every administration official has ever uttered all day long, but the sense I've gotten from the Bush administration comes straight from the 2003 State of the Union speech. The relevant quote is
Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option.
Of course, he's saying that we don't have to wait until a threat is imminent. For a President to do so is to risk losing thousands of Americans to an enemy who will use WMD as their first, not last resort. And yes, Saddam's Iraq had ample and unapologetic links to terrorists--although sketchy links to those responsible for 9/11.
[Bold emphasis--for Bush's 2003 SOTU language--added]
 
freewheeling:
Could you possibly be more dense?...isn't in about time you started using a little common sense?

With that style, could you possibly be more at home at Democraticunderground.com rather than THE HIGH ROAD.

freewheeling:
this entire tirade of a book is simply a monumental example of incompetence.

and then
Who said I read the book?

My point exactly. Clearly you had NOT read his book, and yet you can so casually dismiss "this entire tirade of a book" without having read a single page. Behold the hubris which can revel in its own ignorance. Reminds me of the anti-gun lefties at DU who would rather do anything - like hurl insults and slander their critics - than actually a read a book by Kates, Kleck, LaPierre, Lott, Snyder, or Zelman. ("What? It disagrees with my own narrow preconceived notions about what 'those people' say? Naw, I don't need to read no stinking books...")

The fact is that Clarke served in the US government for 30 years in the Defense and State Departments. He served Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II. Under Clinton and Bush he served as the top official in the US government for counter-terrorism issues. He is a registered Republican who carried a .357 issued by the Secret Service. He describes the late FBI agent John O'Neill as his "closest friend in the bureau and a man determined to destroy Al Qaeda..." He states that "O'Neill's struggle with [FBI Director Louis] Freeh was a case study in why the FBI could not do the homeland protection mission."

He praises Ronald Reagan efforts to push the Soviet Union to collapse. "By confronting Moscow in Afghanistan, inserting the US military in the Persian GUlf, and by strengthening Israel as a base for the southern flank against the Soviets, Reagan created new equations. The moves were unquestionably correct strategically, but the details of how they were handled left problems and wrong impressions that grew with time."

He discusses the question of whether the first Iraq War should have been continued for another day or week. "To me it was obvious then and now that another 72 hours of combat was needed."

in a paradigm that parsed or fragmented the various interests into discrete units to be dealt with as a criminal justice problem (which is what Kerry and Clarkes are, essentially, arguing).

WRONG. That is *not* what Clarke argues, it's not what he said in his interview with on 60 Minutes, and it's not his "paradigm" as articulated in his book. (I have his book right here on my desk.)

If you want to have an intelligent opinion about what Clarke thinks, you will probably want to read his book.
 
idd:

quote:in a paradigm that parsed or fragmented the various interests into discrete units to be dealt with as a criminal justice problem (which is what Kerry and Clarkes are, essentially, arguing).

WRONG. That is *not* what Clarke argues, it's not what he said in his interview with on 60 Minutes, and it's not his "paradigm" as articulated in his book. (I have his book right here on my desk.)

If you want to have an intelligent opinion about what Clarke thinks, you will probably want to read his book.

I don't think I will. I think I agree with Roger Simon that the very circumstances and level of rhetoric associated with the book's publication have pretty much convinced me that it's BS. And I can judge the paradigmatic nature of his policy conception from his public statements and those of others with whom he has worked. The very notion that Iraq is unrelated to Al Qaeda belongs to a parsed and fragmented perspective that does not, for instance, take into account how a "bad neighborhood" contributes to the local crime rate.

But if I can make any judgment about the man from his public statements the one thing that seems undeniable is that he now totally dismisses the notion of a Saddam/Qaeda link. And as Dan Darling observes, with characteristic insight Clarke must have, at one time, endorsed the idea of a Saddam/Qaeda link pretty strongly since he played a key role in advising the cruise missile strike on the al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant in the Sudan. George Smith quotes an article in The New Republic which documents the key role played by Clarke in that decision. And Darling links to these six news reports from the period which document that the justification for the attack, recommended by Clarke, was that the plant was producing the precursors for VX with Iraqi assistance. And we weren't concerned about al Shifa because we were concerned about the Sudanese government, per se, but because of their sponsorship of (you guessed it) Al Qaeda.

No, I really don't plan to read his BS book, and, God help me, I think I can still make intelligent comments on his fragmented, conveniently-parsed-for-political-consumption, BS thesis. Nice try.
 
the left could probably make some decent points of criticism about all of this

So what would those points be?

All I see you doing is defending Bush -- in the face of all reasonable criticism -- often by saying "Clinton didn't do enough either, so blame him entirely." As they said in _Conspiracy Theory_, why are you making me repeat myself?

Let me state it more clearly. You incorrectly believe that anyone who criticizes Bush must be a "liberal," a "leftist," etc. This is a debating trick worthy of the great intellectual leader Rush Limbaugh. Are there only two possible choices of policy in any area -- the "wimpy" one and the "effective" one? I understand we are often only being OFFERED two realistic choices at the highest political level. But PLEASE, stop buying into the BS that criticizing Tweedledum means loving Tweedledee. I could criticize Clinton big-time, but he's not in office now and he's not running for re-election later this year.

Lest you get distracted by my explanations, let me repeat myself yet again: What would you see as "decent points of criticism" of the Bush Administration's handling of the terrorist threat before and after 9/11?

P.S. I have made numerous points that were not responded to. I don't immediately and publicly conclude that you have no good answer. Give me a little more credit and a little more time to get back to you. It takes many more words, and more time, to effectively refute something than to just state an opinion.
 
Ok.....Clarke is a tough guy..really...I am not smiling as I type that.

So Splain to me why his book is not about the lack of cojones in the Clinton White House??

You know...the Administration where he actually held a position of some respect??

Not bashing Clinton here...not playing that game...but this guy spent 8 years watching an administration do little/nothing about terrorism and was fat dumb, AND happy.

Now....he gets canned by an administration that (right or wrong) is taking the fight to the enemy...

And suddenly...he feels a desperate need to come clean....but only about the last few years?

Seems pretty convenient....especially in light of his ties to the Kerry campaign...his book being published by the same company that owns CBS, etc. etc...talk about a conflict of interest!

Laura Ingraham had an intersting point this morning...he keeps saying he lost his cabinet level position....seems he never had a cabinet level position.
 
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