Rush show comment-- why didn't they rush him...
- Thread starter JWarren
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shooting time
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I would think that with all the people trying to hide under desks and run it would have been hard to get to to shooter without tripping or being blocked by bodies and furniture.Also most were young and probally didn't have any knowledge of guns or shooting.
Eleven Mike
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Why would anyone extrapolate psychology from gorillas to humans? Why not study humans? Goodness knows we have enough examples of human aggression and the response thereto.
Joe Demko
Member
I have studied humans. So did the author of The Naked Ape. So have a bunch of people called "historians."
flashman70
Member
I understand that when someone is shooting at you, the instinct is to duck, run, get out of the way. Yet I do wonder how a class undoubtedly including healthy young men would jump out a window as their 75 year-old professor held the door against the shooter. But I wasn't there, so I won't pass judgement.
From my advanced age and with a modest amount of acquired knowledge of firearms, I would say having folks carrying concealed on campus could have possibly greatly reduced the number of dead and wounded. But when I think back to what an irresponsible idiot I was at 21, I'm not so sure lots of CCWs on campus is a great idea either. But clearly "gun free" zones don't work.
From my advanced age and with a modest amount of acquired knowledge of firearms, I would say having folks carrying concealed on campus could have possibly greatly reduced the number of dead and wounded. But when I think back to what an irresponsible idiot I was at 21, I'm not so sure lots of CCWs on campus is a great idea either. But clearly "gun free" zones don't work.
koja48
member
Exactly the point, hence the advantage in being trained to defend yourself/others, proficient, equipped to do so, i.e., "armed", and ALLOWED to be so prepared. "Gun Free Zones" are acknowledged by the law-abiding only and not at all by criminals, terrorists, or the insane. The huge constant in adequate defense is that of having appropriate means to initiate that defense.
Johnny Yuma -- Let me clarify..
There is a big difference in your analysis of police officers actions, and building scenarios based on their mistakes and successes, and Rush Limbaugh's pompous pronouncements about this, and nearly everything else.
To me Rush is no gutsy hero who knows about how evil the world is, and is sharing it with us, in order that we can be better prepared...he's a know-it-all windbag.
You are the expert doing your job, he is the outsider yaking away...
There is a big difference in your analysis of police officers actions, and building scenarios based on their mistakes and successes, and Rush Limbaugh's pompous pronouncements about this, and nearly everything else.
To me Rush is no gutsy hero who knows about how evil the world is, and is sharing it with us, in order that we can be better prepared...he's a know-it-all windbag.
You are the expert doing your job, he is the outsider yaking away...
Eleven Mike
Member
husker, I don't know what makes your pronouncements any less pompous than Limbaugh's. Some people get paid for news analysis, the rest of us just hold forth for free on the internet. And when people hold forth about Rush's faults, they sound like windbags to me. He's done more for gun rights and other good causes than most of us put together. And unless you enjoy getting ALL your news from a left-wing point of view, you can thank Rush Limbaugh for taking the wind out of their sails.
I also find it interesting that your comments about Rush came after you mis-read and mis-analyzed the subject of the thread. If you ran your mouth on live radio for three hours a day, I wonder which of you would come off better.
I also find it interesting that your comments about Rush came after you mis-read and mis-analyzed the subject of the thread. If you ran your mouth on live radio for three hours a day, I wonder which of you would come off better.
Rush is a better paid windbag, that I do know!
Rush does not want to save anyone from those mean old liberal voices and opinions that want to destroy all we hold dear and sacred, he just wants to insert "the world according to Rush", it's an ego trip dittoheads... listen to him for too long, and you'll actually believe he knows something...have fun, my last windy post on this subject.
By the way, he's selling "Peace through Limbaugh" T-shirts on his website....don't miss 'em...last chance....Yikes!
Rush does not want to save anyone from those mean old liberal voices and opinions that want to destroy all we hold dear and sacred, he just wants to insert "the world according to Rush", it's an ego trip dittoheads... listen to him for too long, and you'll actually believe he knows something...have fun, my last windy post on this subject.By the way, he's selling "Peace through Limbaugh" T-shirts on his website....don't miss 'em...last chance....Yikes!
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Eleven Mike
Member
conservatives and libertarians disparaging Limbaugh = the sniveling of lesser men.
Yes, yes, we know. You can think for yourself. Wow. When you are done congratulating yourself for this amazing feat, come join the other adult free-thinkers. We're listening to Limbaugh. Edited to add: or we're not listening to Limbaugh. Either way, we free-thinkers aren't proving ourselves by putting him down. Chumps like O'Reilly, Hannity and Savage, on the other hand....
Yes, yes, we know. You can think for yourself. Wow. When you are done congratulating yourself for this amazing feat, come join the other adult free-thinkers. We're listening to Limbaugh. Edited to add: or we're not listening to Limbaugh. Either way, we free-thinkers aren't proving ourselves by putting him down. Chumps like O'Reilly, Hannity and Savage, on the other hand....
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lacoochee
Member
I am jumping on this string late, but aren't the answers we are posing begging for a question?
In my opinion the question is not what should have been done, but why wasn't it done?
I have never been endowed with whatever might call foresight in a crisis, I have always just responded. In Italy I caught a flash of light and ducked as the USO blew up down the street, car parts and glass landed all around me. On the South China sea I saw a Japanese woman and her child disappearing out to sea on a blowup raft, while her family and relatives stood there wringing their hands. I was the one who looked up and saw what need to be done, I swam out and pulled them in, I was 13. On the underground in Munich I was confronted by a half dozen Turks who thought my girlfriend might show them a good time. I figured out who the leader was and went for his throat, it was not turning out well by the way but at the next stop there were quite a few of my friends waiting for me. I doubt seriously if any of those particular Auslander wander the underground looking for American victims anymore. The funny thing is I thought all Americans were like me, I was raised in a warrior culture on bases around the world.
When you join or are drafted into the military the government does not hand you a rifle, a 60 pound rucksack, and a killer attitude. You are trained to acquire a killer attitude then you are handed a rifle or a sword, spear, rock, whatever, the implement is unimportant when you are a warrior. Many people on this board are warriors, we have either been trained or have trained ourselves to respond to external threats with aggression and tenacity.
So how do we change this? How do we get American to become Citizen Warriors again? That's really the question isn't it?
In my opinion the question is not what should have been done, but why wasn't it done?
I have never been endowed with whatever might call foresight in a crisis, I have always just responded. In Italy I caught a flash of light and ducked as the USO blew up down the street, car parts and glass landed all around me. On the South China sea I saw a Japanese woman and her child disappearing out to sea on a blowup raft, while her family and relatives stood there wringing their hands. I was the one who looked up and saw what need to be done, I swam out and pulled them in, I was 13. On the underground in Munich I was confronted by a half dozen Turks who thought my girlfriend might show them a good time. I figured out who the leader was and went for his throat, it was not turning out well by the way but at the next stop there were quite a few of my friends waiting for me. I doubt seriously if any of those particular Auslander wander the underground looking for American victims anymore. The funny thing is I thought all Americans were like me, I was raised in a warrior culture on bases around the world.
When you join or are drafted into the military the government does not hand you a rifle, a 60 pound rucksack, and a killer attitude. You are trained to acquire a killer attitude then you are handed a rifle or a sword, spear, rock, whatever, the implement is unimportant when you are a warrior. Many people on this board are warriors, we have either been trained or have trained ourselves to respond to external threats with aggression and tenacity.
So how do we change this? How do we get American to become Citizen Warriors again? That's really the question isn't it?
OK---this is my last post
Freethinker and Limbaugh listener = non sequitur
I'll ignore the snarkie comments about being a lesser man, and the sarcasm --Oops -- guess I didn't ---somehow having a disagreement in cyberspace isn't working for me...and no, it's not because I don't have my big boy pants on and just can't hear the truth according to Rush...
Time to get back to the original thread, which has taken a tangent.
Freethinker and Limbaugh listener = non sequitur
I'll ignore the snarkie comments about being a lesser man, and the sarcasm --Oops -- guess I didn't ---somehow having a disagreement in cyberspace isn't working for me...and no, it's not because I don't have my big boy pants on and just can't hear the truth according to Rush...
Time to get back to the original thread, which has taken a tangent.
If I had heard the shooting I would hope I would have the courage to get near a doorway by the side of itand try knocking him over the head with something hard fast, or for example there is a broom in one or two of my classes which are in basement areas of the builiding, maybe use it as a spear (the stick part obviously) seeing that because of the small area of inpact you could probably break someone's neck or ribs, hopefully if you hit the ribs it would stun him long enough to be tackeled.
And when you think about it the way he was executing people (which you would be able to tell by the number of shots fired) you really wouldn't have anything to lose. I just hope I would have the courage to defend myself (I was once attacked with a baseball bat and fought back, I was lucky that the way I moved my head was just skimmed, my adrenaline started pumping and since he had just swung I was able to tackle; but this was before my back got bad and at the time at 5'8 I was a lean 195 from lifting and eating properly. And my head still hurt for months even though the impact was minimal. Also the situation was ended without serious injury to anyone beyond that, although I wouldn't of felt bad if I did seriously injure him; had he connected he probably would have killed me.)
And when you think about it the way he was executing people (which you would be able to tell by the number of shots fired) you really wouldn't have anything to lose. I just hope I would have the courage to defend myself (I was once attacked with a baseball bat and fought back, I was lucky that the way I moved my head was just skimmed, my adrenaline started pumping and since he had just swung I was able to tackle; but this was before my back got bad and at the time at 5'8 I was a lean 195 from lifting and eating properly. And my head still hurt for months even though the impact was minimal. Also the situation was ended without serious injury to anyone beyond that, although I wouldn't of felt bad if I did seriously injure him; had he connected he probably would have killed me.)
TallPine
Member
Me too ... I think it must be my Celtic temper
(fyi: but I am not a female)
Eleven Mike
Member
You can't make this stuff up, folks.
Despite listening to Limbaugh religiously, I still manage to disagree with him at times. Guess there must be some disruption of the brain-washing ray where I live.
Eleven Mike
Member
Right. So why bother looking at the gorillas? They don't wear clothes or build shopping malls, either, but we still do those things. There are obviously some things humans do that are like gorillas, and some things we do that are not like gorillas. So, what do these studies tell us? The fact that gorillas do something obviously doesn't mean that we do the same. Why not just go to the obvious conclusion of "people usually opt for whatever seems safest to them"? And in many such cases, running away seems safer to most people. Or why not ask people? We can talk, you know.
justashooter
member
Read The Naked Ape. It is wired into primates to be submissive when subject to displays of aggression. In something like a gorilla troupe, this is desirable because it drastically limits how much actual physical combat occurs within the troupe. It backfires on us as humans, because we often do it even when the submission won't end the aggression.
This is nothing new historically. It isn't a result of indoctrination by The State or Pussification or anything other than biology.
i have read the book, and understand the concept. the problem is that none of the other students was a silverback. when a dominant silverback (older) male's tribe is attacked, he will invariably respond in kind and fight to the end. silverback apes can be savage creatures. they are usually well past the point of sexual maturity, but still in their prime.
note that the one individual credited with resistance was a silverback past his prime. if he'd been 30 years younger, the story would have been different.
Why would anyone extrapolate psychology from gorillas to humans? Why not study humans? Goodness knows we have enough examples of human aggression and the response thereto.
because we are just apes when it comes down to the limbic. this is the main teaching of most of desmond morris' writing. each of us reacts to traumatic situations on the limbic level. all of the threads you guys are writing about SHTF, and nobody understands this, yet? who dies and who lives is decided at a level below conscious thought.
has your subconscious decided, yet?
This is nothing new historically. It isn't a result of indoctrination by The State or Pussification or anything other than biology.
i have read the book, and understand the concept. the problem is that none of the other students was a silverback. when a dominant silverback (older) male's tribe is attacked, he will invariably respond in kind and fight to the end. silverback apes can be savage creatures. they are usually well past the point of sexual maturity, but still in their prime.
note that the one individual credited with resistance was a silverback past his prime. if he'd been 30 years younger, the story would have been different.
Why would anyone extrapolate psychology from gorillas to humans? Why not study humans? Goodness knows we have enough examples of human aggression and the response thereto.
because we are just apes when it comes down to the limbic. this is the main teaching of most of desmond morris' writing. each of us reacts to traumatic situations on the limbic level. all of the threads you guys are writing about SHTF, and nobody understands this, yet? who dies and who lives is decided at a level below conscious thought.
has your subconscious decided, yet?
Joe Demko
Member
Thank you, justashooter, that was an excellent summary of what Morris has to say. Good point about the lack of a silverback.
Studying history shows us what humans do. Studying other, closely related, species gives us a window on biologic reasons why humans do what they do.
Studying history shows us what humans do. Studying other, closely related, species gives us a window on biologic reasons why humans do what they do.
TallPine
Member
Are there any studies about non-human apes and rubber ducks ...???
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=272054
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Joe Demko
Member
Cho was aberrant. Study of other species gives us an idea why non-aberrant humans do what they do.
justashooter
member
Cho was aberrant. Study of other species gives us an idea why non-aberrant humans do what they do.
no question that he suffered from delusional disorder, and perhaps early stages of schizophrenia, which usually shows up in males at the age of 28, plus or minus 3 years,and in women at the age of 30, plus or minus 3. another thing controlled by biology, rather than consciousness.
what we were talking about, though, was the lack of agressive response from the non-abberant victims. their response was in line with their limbic instinct. would that there had been a few ex-military types on hand who had experienced simulated live fire assault, and been trained to overcome their limbic response with counter-agression.
speaking as a silverback, i can tell you that agressive response is part of the age. in recent years my tolerance for agression has declined rapidly. twice in the last two years i or a tribe member in my company has been threatened. in both cases i responded in the limbic, much to the suprise of the individual who found themselves on the floor afterward. in both cases, they responded to their limbic and succumbed to superior force.
one instance was related to territorial violation, the other involved a personal violation. makes no difference if the instinct is in control. in neither case was a rational decision made. autonomic response kicked in before i realised what i was doing.
no question that he suffered from delusional disorder, and perhaps early stages of schizophrenia, which usually shows up in males at the age of 28, plus or minus 3 years,and in women at the age of 30, plus or minus 3. another thing controlled by biology, rather than consciousness.
what we were talking about, though, was the lack of agressive response from the non-abberant victims. their response was in line with their limbic instinct. would that there had been a few ex-military types on hand who had experienced simulated live fire assault, and been trained to overcome their limbic response with counter-agression.
speaking as a silverback, i can tell you that agressive response is part of the age. in recent years my tolerance for agression has declined rapidly. twice in the last two years i or a tribe member in my company has been threatened. in both cases i responded in the limbic, much to the suprise of the individual who found themselves on the floor afterward. in both cases, they responded to their limbic and succumbed to superior force.
one instance was related to territorial violation, the other involved a personal violation. makes no difference if the instinct is in control. in neither case was a rational decision made. autonomic response kicked in before i realised what i was doing.
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