Russian M44 Mosin Nagant vs. British Enfeild

[Wisc Deer Hunter]

Which round is better? 7.62x54 or .303? Which would be a better choice for hunting whitetail deer and why.

 

[Coronach]

I would say that both fall under the category of "more than adequate'. One might be better than the other, but they're both in the same class, so the differences would be pretty small.

I'm assuming you're using modern commercial rounds, and not surplus. Russian surplus is hit or miss (you'd have to do some fiddling around to see which one your m44 likes). .303 Brit surplus is mostly gone, and what's left is terrible. However, the Lee-Enfield, on average, tends to be the more accurate rifle. Certainly there are accurate Mosin-Nagants, but by and large they're not as consistently accurate as L-Es.

Mike

 

[jpwilly]

The better deer rifle is the Enfield. Not because of any noteable balistic difference but because the saftey on the Nagant is difficult...by the time you get it into the fire position deer season could be over. The stock trigger pull on a surplus Nagant sucks and the Enfield's trigger is far better. The action of the Enfield is better IMO and the sights on the Enfield are better plus the Enfield will most likely be more accurate. I'm not disqualifying the Nagant as a deer rifle but the question was Enfield or Nagant. Owning 3 Nagants and an Enfield I think that I'm qualified to draw those comparisons. Commercial hunting ammo is available for both and both are overkill power wise for most deer except for deer on PCP!

 

[elmerfudd]

As far as which round is better, I'd say it's easily the 7.62x54R. Ballistically it's only slightly superior, but as far as surplus ammo goes, there's a ton of it out there, much of it is good and nearly all of it is dirt cheap. It's not what you would use for deer hunting, but you can afford to go out and practice with it until your shoulder is black and blue and an M44 can do just that.

If you don't care about the availability of surplus, then I'd go with an Enfield. They have better sights, a faster action, lighter kick, a more convenient safety and are easier to mount a scope to. Both guns are capable of decent accuracy, but don't always deliver. The Enfields sometimes have worn bores. They were shot with corrosive ammo and may not always have been properly cleaned. Most of the current MN's on the other hand were rearsenaled prior to being put in storage and the barrels usually look very good. During the war years however, they didn't always seem to build them right and I've had a couple of 1943 Ishvesks that grouped worse than my Remington 870.

If you really want a nice Moisin Nagant, get an M39 Finn. You'll have to spend about $200 more, but you'll get a much more accurate and pleasant shooting rifle. M44's kick like mules and have a muzzle blast like a howitzer.

 

[cracked butt]

enfield>>>>>M44

 

[Wisc Deer Hunter]

elmer i really dont think the m44 doesnt have that bad of kick i already shot 40 rounds + at a time and it wasnt to bad but maybe im just use to it idk

 

[cwmcgu2]

60+ rounds out of my M44 or M91/59 tear me up pretty good. I am a thin framed guy and after 60 rounds the recoil will bring some intense pain.

I have an M44 set up as a scout rifle and this will be my first deer season. Having just recently taken my hunters safety course I am now very uncomfortable with the safety. It is hard to engage and to disengage, doing it wrong can hurt your fingers pretty good so it is very very important to practice. I used to say "My finger is my safety" but am much more aware now of the danger of accidental discharge when moving through the woods. I have seen some metal ring attachments that make the safety easier to operate but I don't want to change anything on my M44 that I won't be able to change back.

For Kentucky deer the 7.62x54R is overkill at the 100-200m range at which I will be hunting, but I'm not to worried about that. I do plan on switching over to a .30-30 brush rifle, and something like a .243 for longer work. But that will have to wait till me educatin is dun wit

 

[Ash]

"the saftey on the Nagant is difficult...by the time you get it into the fire position deer season could be over."

You just have to learn how to use it. The Enfield most certainly has the better safety, but the Mosin safety is quite easy. I can operate it quickly and, importantly, silently. Plus, it is the more positive of the two.

However, comparing prices, I would compare the M39 with the Enfield and not the M44. The M39 is much more the contemporary of the Enfield and certainly is capable of the same (if not better) accuracy. The sights on the M39 are in some ways as good, in others better, than the Enfield, too.

But, in comparing the M44 to the Enfield, I would probably take the Enfield on the hunt. However, there are a tremendous number of good rounds available for the Mosin.

Ash

 

[Full Clip]

Comparing the Enfield with the Mosin is like comparing an MG sports car to a VW bug. The Enfield is a clearly superior rifle but Mosins are cheap and the surplus x54r ammo can be had very cheap. Still, my Enfield #5 is my go-to surplus bolt gun for short-range shooting. That said, the M44 is a great rifle. Just get a slip-on buttpad for it.

 

[Ash]

To operate the safety, put the butt in the crook of your arm and grasp the cocking piece with your finger-tips. Using just just your fingers and forearm, operate the safety. Real easy and silent to do. I have hunted many years with a SAKO M39 (and a 91/59) and have never had trouble with the safety. These days I use a Mossberg 810 7mm Mag or 800 in .243. But I would have no problem transitioning back to that M39.

Ash

 

[Ash]

I'd compare my 28/30 to any Enfield happily. And, I'll bet the 28 or 28/30 would be, on average, more accurate than the Enfield. Either Mosin has a much superior trigger to the trigger-guard mounted #1 or #4. And it is better than the #4mk2 trigger.

The best Finnish sniper used the 28/30 unscoped (among other weapons) in the Winter War. And he had a higher kill-rate than most other snipers in the world using scoped rifles.

Comparing the Enfield to the M44, the Enfield wins. Comparing the Enfield (any flavor) to the M28, M28/30, or M39, the playing field narrows until they are even (or the Enfield comes up short as in the 28/30).

Ash

 

[Full Clip]

In terms of accuracy, you're absoultely right, but he did ask specifically about the M44. Also, the cycle action on the Enfield is amazing. The Mosins —*in my experience — aren't in the same league.

 

[Ash]

Which is why I said the M44 versus Enfield comparison favors the Enfield.

Ash

 

[22LongRifle]

Like stated before, the SMLE is usually better than the 91/30s. But I too would like to get a Finnish and plan on it ASAP, before they go past the $350 mark.

The thing the SMLEs have going is the fast cycling rate of fire and reloading. I'm getting pretty good with my no4 mk4. But I'm right behind it with my 91/30. But this shouldn't be the factor in the pors and cons of a hunting rifle.

+1 on the comments on the 38! Wish I never sold mine.

22lr

 

[DiN_BLiX]

the saftey on the Nagant is difficult...by the time you get it into the fire position deer season could be over."

wait... nagants have a safty? lol

 

[offthepaper]

I'd say it's easily the 7.62x54R. Ballistically it's only slightly superior, but as far as surplus ammo goes, there's a ton of it out there, much of it is good and nearly all of it is dirt cheap.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Have you checked prices/availibility lately ?

 

[Ash]

Plenty of ammo around, still cheap, but no longer dirt cheap.

Ash

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I would also choose the Enfield.

I don't think you really want to lug a carbine around the woods which has a bayonet folded over on it's side. Before anyone says, "just remove it" that will effect the M44's accuracy. It is proven the M44 has the best accuracy when the bayonet is extended and it's at it's worse with the bayonet removed. It has something to do with the harmonics of the barrel. If you are really stuck on a Mosin Nagant as a hunting rifle you might want to buy a M38 which is almost the same as the M44 but wasn't built with the bayonet attached to the barrel. The best Mosin would be the 91/30 but it's way too long to take out in the bush unless you had nothing else.

I found an Enfield that was manufactured for the US troops and chambered in 30-06. You might want to find one chambered in 30-06 since your choice of hunting ammo will be huge compared to the .303 British.

 

[sacp81170a]

Enfield hands down. I've got both and I've hunted with the Enfield. Plus, I haven't yet removed the bayonet from my M44 and ground off the mount. The Enfield gives me 2.5 - 3 inch groups at 100 yards, plenty good for deer. The M44 is more like 6-8 inch groups, still adequate, but not as good.

 

[Cosmoline]

The British Enfield is superior to a typical Russian M44. A better comparison would be between the British Enfield and a POLISH M44. Or between the Enfield and a K-31.

Either round will work fine on deer provided you use proper ammunition. SP 54R is usually easier to find than SP .303.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I have a liking to the lee enfield. Smooth, accurate and easy to maintain. Yes the russian round is more powerful, but I can easily get 2600/2700fps. with a good handload with a 150 gr. bullet from my no.5.

Check out the .303's performance in ballistic gel @ www.brassfetcher.com

 

[Nameless_Hobo]

I'd take the Enfield every day of the week and twice on sunday, over most any mosin, with the exception of a M39.

 

[Deer Hunter]

The ready supply of good soft-point hunting ammunition for the 54R would be the main reason to pick the Mosin over the Enfield.

 

[Jeff F]

Enfield all the way! If you have an Enfield set up right theres not many other rifles new or old that can beat it accuracy wise out to six hundred yards or so with open sights.

 

[elmerfudd]

offthepaper,

Wow, you're right about the prices. It's still cheap at around $.20 a round, but it was only a few months ago that I was buying up silver tip and Bulgarian ball for around half that. Good thing I picked up about 3K of it.