S&W 1911?

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ontarget

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I am considering expanding my 1911 collection and came across a S&W.
It's a full size stainless steel model, with target sights.
I am a self proclaimed S&W fanboy so I thought it might make a good addition.
I have a Colt Commander stainless, a RIA GI Model, and a Taurus full size stainless with the tac-rail.(personally I hate that rail but the price was right so...)
My question is, where does the S&W 1911 stand in the 1911 market?
I dont hear much talk about them in any of the 1911 threads, so I'm curious. Is it because they are less common, or are they over priced for what they are?
What do you folks think?
 
I’ve looked for one for years, to no avail. They are highly regarded by many in the 1911 world - often overlooked, but incredible values.

The purists tend to look down on them due the their triggers, and if I’m not mistaken their sights (or rather sight channels in the slide) are not a standard size which makes it more difficult to replace them. And finally there is the external extractor which again, purists look down upon as not true-to-the design.

I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one if the price were right - due to their value and (to some, legendary) reputed reliability.

Finally, as far as I know, they are still factory supported, unlike the Third-gen S&w pistols.
 
They aren't over priced, but they aren't entry level either. What they offer is good value for the level of quality and features you're getting. I've had two and have been happy with both of them.

The most desirable ones are from the Performance Center, which are comparable to anything at their price point. If you're looking at their regular production line-up, getting one in the "E-series" is a better choice.

The only odd thing about them is the external extractor, because it isn't "traditional." and their firing pin safety block...but both work very well
 
E-Series owner from one of the first bunch to hit the market, and many thousands of rounds through mine with no failures.

Having grown up shooting dad’s Model 15 and 686, and subsequently purchasing 3 M&Ps I confess too to leaning toward S&W for turning lead into holes on paper. As for their 1911s my take is as follows:

The E or Enhanced Series is a little off in the hand, with a wider (front to back) frame than most (Les Baer 1911s are similar) which means most stocks won’t adequately span the frame, leaving corners for your hands to feel. Matters not to many but my Colts sit differently.

Fit and finish is average with a gap between beaver tail and frame, a small bit of slide to frame rattle, ok trigger, and a number of MIM parts. Accuracy is decent, installed 3-dot sights useable (I black out rear dots on all pistols). E-Series pistols have no firing pin safety.

All in all I feel it compares favorably to other 1911s but given what I know and what I did to enhance it I believe SA, Ruger, and Colt would all rank above it if I were purchasing again for a stock pistol.


As delivered.
AA960FF9-4559-4B87-881E-74131F0556BB.jpeg

Modified.
49785945-C655-424C-8925-FDD514C679A4.jpeg

Note stock coverage difference between Colts and Smith (on right).
6FE6066E-D1BE-49FC-A35B-853255F2071F.jpeg
 
Even though I am not too into 1911s, the nicest one I have ever held and shot was a SW1911 Commander length lightweight with their scandium frame.

A lot guff has been made over the external extractors on 1911s through the ages starting with early Kimbers. There have been no such claims with the SW1911s.
 
They're nice, but for me I'll save a few hundred & stick with Springfield Armory Range Officer Target I paid $700 for and my Ronin for $850.
 
A lot guff has been made over the external extractors on 1911s through the ages starting with early Kimbers. There have been no such claims with the SW1911s.
This is true, their external extractors are superior .

I also had a 1911Sc with the Scandium frame. I liked it a lot, until I met someone who liked it and was willing to pay more for it...I got mine pretty much at distributor cost for $475
 
An S&W 1911 is kinda like a Ford Corvette.
With that out of the way, a buddy has one and loves it.
I've shot it; great pistol.
Moon
 
E-Series owner from one of the first bunch to hit the market, and many thousands of rounds through mine with no failures.

Having grown up shooting dad’s Model 15 and 686, and subsequently purchasing 3 M&Ps I confess too to leaning toward S&W for turning lead into holes on paper. As for their 1911s my take is as follows:

The E or Enhanced Series is a little off in the hand, with a wider (front to back) frame than most (Les Baer 1911s are similar) which means most stocks won’t adequately span the frame, leaving corners for your hands to feel. Matters not to many but my Colts sit differently.

Fit and finish is average with a gap between beaver tail and frame, a small bit of slide to frame rattle, ok trigger, and a number of MIM parts. Accuracy is decent, installed 3-dot sights useable (I black out rear dots on all pistols). E-Series pistols have no firing pin safety.

All in all I feel it compares favorably to other 1911s but given what I know and what I did to enhance it I believe SA, Ruger, and Colt would all rank above it if I were purchasing again for a stock pistol.


As delivered.
View attachment 1073032

Modified.
View attachment 1073033

Note stock coverage difference between Colts and Smith (on right).
View attachment 1073034

As usual, enjoyed reading your post. Nice lineup of 1911’s, too.

What is it about SA, Colt, and Ruger that causes them to rank above your S&W? I know nothing about them, so genuinely curious.
 
I handle the Performance Shop one with the blue grip. $1300. Felt like a $3,000 gun
 
That is an interesting point...my understanding is that Ruger manufactures the major parts for S&W 1911s
Didn’t realize that. That’s interesting to know.

Granted, I know just enough to know that I don’t know half of it. But my thought to this point is that production 1911’s are all more alike nowadays (in terms of reliable feeding, firing, ejecting) than different.

With all the CNC machining, and improvement in MIM small parts, it feels like the major differences are the roll marks. Except maybe for Ruger’s use of casting for frame and integral plunger tube and S&W’s external extractor.
 
But my thought to this point is that production 1911’s are all more alike nowadays (in terms of reliable feeding, firing, ejecting) than different.
That may be becoming more true today than even 10 years ago.

You have to remember that No One makes an original 1911, because the specs for the originals aren't really used...remember that, back then, machining was expensive and handwork was cheap (cue the story about the lady who fitted the magazines shipped with the 1911 at the Colt factory; She had different sizes (lengths) in front of her and would try different ones until she found a couple that fit) That was one of the issues that SIG ran into when they offered their original GSR 1911. Their contracted designer spec'd frames made by Caspian, but Caspian couldn't produce frames close enough to each other to allow for production manufacture.

I also remember talking to a upper tier custom1911 smith who would only worked on Colt frames. I asked him if that meant that Colt made a superior 1911 (parts) for him to start from. His response was an eye opener, "No, I only work with Colt frames because I already know all the problem areas I'll have to correct and I have my mill set up for them." He now manufactures the major parts for his custom builds in-house. I also remember when 1911 smiths disliked working on SA 1911s because of the wider grip frames throwing off their mill settings.

CNC machining and MIM parts does make identical parts...but they are only identical to others using the same specs. That is why the licensed Novak rear sights on a S&W don't fit as well as a smith fitted Novak rear sight...they float a bit
 
That is an interesting point...my understanding is that Ruger manufactures the major parts for S&W 1911s

Has that always been the case or only recently? I ask the question because Ruger didn't start making their 1911s until seven years after Smith & Wesson began making theirs (2004 vs 2011). Too, at least initially and long afterwards, Smith & Wesson steel frames were "hammer forged", whereas, to my knowledge, Ruger frames have always been "investment cast". And, unlike Ruger's integral (cast) plunger tubes, Smith 1911 pistols have traditional separate ones (as well as "non-traditional" external extractors). What other "major" parts does Ruger make for Smith & Wesson? Just curious.
 
I've had 2 of them. One with target sights. I've owned a bunch of 1911's over the years and the Smiths were probably my favorite. I never had any issues, can't recall a single failure and both were quite accurate. A lot of traditionalists don't like the external extractor, but it works.

I sold one 2 years ago, the other last month. Not that I didn't like them, but in recent years have been clearing the safe of guns that are rarely used. The current crazy gun prices are a plus if you're in a selling mood. I've sold 15-20 guns in the last 2 years and got 2X to 6X what I paid for them.
 
I also remember talking to a upper tier custom1911 smith who would only worked on Colt frames. I asked him if that meant that Colt made a superior 1911 (parts) for him to start from. His response was an eye opener, "No, I only work with Colt frames because I already know all the problem areas I'll have to correct and I have my mill set up for them." He now manufactures the major parts for his custom builds in-house. I also remember when 1911 smiths disliked working on SA 1911s because of the wider grip frames throwing off their mill settings.

This philosophy is consistent among many top 1911 ‘smiths. Makes sense…work with what you’re accustomed to working with, because you’ve seen and encountered all you’re going to encounter - as long as you use those parts.
Hence their work is always top-notch and hand fitted to an exceptional level.
 
I went back to look at it today.
It comes with a Kimber 22lr conversion upper as well.
The 45 upper is unfired, and the 22lr supposedly only has 2 mags through it.
I can get the whole thing for $1300. Both pieces with boxes and docs.
What do you all think?
 
RE my preferences stated; As an early adopter I paid Bud’s $799 as I recall for mine. At that time, I could have purchased a Colt XSE or SA Target SS for around even money or less.

A few parts I replaced.
5A0DC1F4-A67E-4DFF-8037-89FA4D128E4E.jpeg


Now by all previous accounts I had read the SW Series was a popular choice with its owners, not so large a group as some others but a reasonably sized group. The Enhanced, in my mind had to be that much better as a follow-up.

So I bought one, I shot it, I shot it some more, and by the first month had some 600 rounds through. Not being a 1911 expert, but a fanatic on cleanliness, I disassembled after each outing and began taking notice of a few things. The slide release was wearing with a deformation started (and a void on the shaft), the barrel lugs appeared to be peening slightly, and the ambi-TS never did exhibit a positive snick on or off. I found the FLGR unappealing and the barrel bushing was nothing like well fit-not horrible, but not so tight a fit as many bushing-less set ups on other pistols. Both bushing and barrel were swapped as well.

None of the above would likely have been a cause for major concern for perhaps years but what I wanted was not what I had purchased. Again, personal dictates rather than foundational issues.

Why would I prefer a Ruger? I suppose it comes down to how they entered the market, new space, new machinery, new CNCs, and of course the ever reliable Pine Tree Castings. They stuck to the original formula for the most part, made a nice albeit plain reproduction, and I believe MSRP is still a healthy hike south of S&Ws.

Ruger also enjoys an excellent reputation for CS which I have experienced when attempting to track down a compact stock for a rifle conversion (which they found among discontinued parts and sold to me at a discount).

Springfield Armory also enjoys a well earned reputation in the 1911 world as makers of “better than Colt” reproductions on up to their Professional Model which I have had the privilege of shooting. SA is continuously introducing fresh takes on the classic 1911 and reining in MSRP to realistic blue collar prices.

Living in “gun valley” where the likes of SA, RRA, and Les Baer to name a few 1911 makers reside has kept the fan base perhaps unusually large as compared to other areas with strong opinions. My own father’s having bore down on me for years certainly influenced my opinion of Colt as did the several local smiths who preferred them (and yes, for much of what was noted above in other posts).

None of this is to say that I don’t care for my Smith E-Series, I like it enough to still carry it often and shoot it constantly. My opinion finds only that it has a few too many compromises in what should be its class while carrying a price tag set far too close to that of better options. For what I ultimately spent, again simply a personal decision, I could easily have owned a Dan Wesson Valor.
 
Here again, and didn’t intend to hijack things but at that price, with the Kimber upper included you’re looking at a pretty solid deal IMO. I simply wanted all the beans spilled out on the table.
 
Here again, and didn’t intend to hijack things but at that price, with the Kimber upper included you’re looking at a pretty solid deal IMO. I simply wanted all the beans spilled out on the table.

Not a problem. I was hoping for some first hand feedback. So far so good.
I'm not in the market for a high end 1911, but I do want to buy guns that will outlast me, and that I can pass down with pride.
I spent half my life buying cheaper guns so I could have more. Then I realized a few years ago that I needed some quality pieces to pass down when the time comes.
Don't get me wrong, I still love my cheaper guns, but now my accumulation (can't hardly call it a collection) is heading in a different direction.
 
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