S&W Advice needed
- Thread starter bozzman3
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model of 1905
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any model 19.
revolverforums
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I agree it seems like the model 19's had some of the best actions of many of the older smiths. It is a K frame though and like the python not what I consider a good gun to shoot a steady diet of 357's without developing end shake after time.
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8830
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I like the 686 better. My first was a 6" in 1985. Wish I still had it.
Archie
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A model 19 will handle any ammo you can shoot; however, the light bullet loads (125 grain fast 'uns) will accelerate wear and can in time crack the barrel at the cylinder end. However, most of us shoot more wadcutters and lighter loads for general use only. You'll not destroy it sighting it in and basic practise. The same holds true for the model 13, a fixed sight .357 Magnum on a K frame. There are also stainless versions of both firearms.
The L frames are heavier and sturdier. More to carry, longer useful lifespan.
The L frames are heavier and sturdier. More to carry, longer useful lifespan.
revolverforums
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Archie said:
You mean the forcing cone can crack if you shoot bullets less then 158 grain in 357 don't you? You will also get a great deal of end shake after time, Don't ask me how I know this.
I agree the L frame is better suited for a constant diet of 357 but you still need to limit the lighter rounds as the forcing cones on them can crack also. You need to move to an N frame to avoid the issue all together. IMHO
MMCSRET
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You want a Registered Magnum from the middle to late 30's. It is todays M27 and was the apex of S&W workmanship.
aHFo3
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I love my model 19 as a conceal carry gun, but I'd rather have L or N frame for a walking around in the woods/range gun.
What you get depends on what you want the gun's purpose to be.
What you get depends on what you want the gun's purpose to be.
Archie
Member
Yes, revolverforums...
The forcing cone is the cylinder end of the barrel.
The reports I've read indicate it is the 125 grain full charge loads that cause the most damage to the forcing cones. I suppose it can happen with most anything, but the information I have is specific to the 125 loadings.
Back in the days when I had a revolver on duty, I carried a S&W 686. I carried and qualified with the Federal 125 grain load exclusively for about five or six years and never had a problem with the forcing cone in my revolver.
Qualifications alone put about 600 to 800 rounds a year through that revolver. All that Federal 125 grain loading. I probably shot it a bit other than that, as well.
I've had several other .357 Magnum K frames over the years. The only one to show any wear is an old M13 I carried several years as a Border 'Troll. That one has the top strap stretched (which causes the endplay in the cylinder) somewhat and is officially retired now. I honestly don't know many rounds I've put through that revolver, but it was considerable. It's times like this I wish I'd kept better track of my shooting, but I know I'd go through 200-300 rounds a month; some magnum loads and lots of .38 Special ammo of various levels.
The forcing cone is the cylinder end of the barrel.
The reports I've read indicate it is the 125 grain full charge loads that cause the most damage to the forcing cones. I suppose it can happen with most anything, but the information I have is specific to the 125 loadings.
Back in the days when I had a revolver on duty, I carried a S&W 686. I carried and qualified with the Federal 125 grain load exclusively for about five or six years and never had a problem with the forcing cone in my revolver.
Qualifications alone put about 600 to 800 rounds a year through that revolver. All that Federal 125 grain loading. I probably shot it a bit other than that, as well.
I've had several other .357 Magnum K frames over the years. The only one to show any wear is an old M13 I carried several years as a Border 'Troll. That one has the top strap stretched (which causes the endplay in the cylinder) somewhat and is officially retired now. I honestly don't know many rounds I've put through that revolver, but it was considerable. It's times like this I wish I'd kept better track of my shooting, but I know I'd go through 200-300 rounds a month; some magnum loads and lots of .38 Special ammo of various levels.
The Bushmaster
Member
Model 19 with 140 grainers and heavier...
model of 1905
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From what I understand it would take ALOT of shooting hot loads with a model 19 to cause damage to the forcing cone. IMO if you plink with 38 special, shoot enough 158 grain .357 mag SD ammo to stay proficient with your carry ammo its a non issue. Thats what I do. I am also more accurate with this gun than any of my autoloaders. I must admit that my normal carry gun will be an autoloader and I can hit what I aim at with them also.
Be prepared to pay dearly -- much more than a Python.
If it's simply a smooth trigger you want, then either the Model 19, 27, 28, 586, or 686 should work. However, you may never find a trigger as slick as the Python's without a trigger job or an awful lot of shooting. What makes a Python a Python is the hand tuning it's action got plus a beautiful finish. This is a matter of opinion, of course, and I have a pre-war K-frame .38 spl (1928) that has a trigger as nice as my Pythons. None of my post-war Smiths have triggers as nice.
The successor to the Registered Magnum is the Model 27 and is/was the top of the line for SW revolvers. It is an N-frame and just a bit larger than the Python. I would suggest a Model 27-2 or 27-3. The Model 28 is a less refined version of the 27 but has the same action.
The Model 19 is a K-frame and a bit smaller than the Python. It may be the perfect carry .357 magnum. Those who shot a lot of of 125 gr .357 loads developed the problems noted in other posts, but it will take a lot of shooting to hurt the revolver.
The 586/686 was designed to remedy the problem with the Model 19 and has a full underlug to make it more Pythonesque in appearance. It is almost as heavy as an N-frame but takes the same size stocks as the K-frames.
madcratebuilder
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Hands down a model 27. Best .357 DA revolver ever made. A pre-lock 586/686 would be my second choice, followed by a pre-lock 19/66.
cottonmouth
Member
Go with the 27 or pre 27. You'll throw rocks at a Python after that. I've always heard how "smooth" the Pythons were but none of them I had were so smooth, they're a little on the fragile side too.
J.B.
J.B.
CSA 357
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Cotton.when you get bach from the sand box i would like to beat you out of that one!:d
Black Knight
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If you are looking for a S&W counterpart to the Python I can recommend the 586 or 686. I have two Pythons and one 686. The 686 will do everything the Pythons do and maybe more. The Pythons are considered delicate but the 686 is considered a workhorse. The 686 also has a very similiar profile as the Python. With the same barrel length they weigh about the same. They also share some of the same holsters. A Bianchi #8 will carry either just as easily as it would the other.
Now, that's an opinion I can agree with
. I have "K", "L", and "N" Frame Smiths, and Colt Pythons as well. (When I saw Cottonmouth's picture, I thought someone had raided my gun locker.) The Pythons are fine revolvers, but so are the "L" and "N" Frame Smiths. My Model 28 has a marginally better trigger, but should I ever have to liquidate my accumulation, the No-Dash Model 27 will be the last to go.
Sunray
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No factory S&W revolver comes out of the factory with a trigger like a Python. That's why Python's were a grand, new. The trigger job, that all S&W revolvers require, was done in the Colt factory on a Python.
"...A Model 19 will handle any ammo you can shoot..." Not extended use of hot .357 loads.
"...A Model 19 will handle any ammo you can shoot..." Not extended use of hot .357 loads.
Stainz
Member
I have a 6" 66-6 I love, IL and all. My 5" JM 627PC V-Comp has a sweet trigger. My 5" h-l 686+ is a keeper, too. The very last one I would part with is the last one I bought - new last spring - and only a month or so old then:
I'll take my 627 Pro over a Python any day of the week. An N-frame, it'll handle, like the K-frames (13/19 & 65/66), any standard SAAMI spec'd .357M. The 627 Pro also handles 8 at a time - moonclipped, if you like. It's spring loaded front sight allows tool-less sight changes in seconds. It comes with a slicked trigger of sorts, but an S&W trigger job isn't that expensive. Decent wood grips help, too - the Miculek's shown are on my JM 627PC now - the 627 Pro sports Ahrends 'retro targets' now. You could buy a new 627 Pro, HiViz sight, Ahrends grips, have a S&W trigger job, and buy some ammo for less than a fair at best Python - with who-knows-what having been shot from it. Works for me... but I am not a Colt fan.
Stainz
PS Re the K to L frame 'improvement'... it's a thicker front frame, allowing a larger OD forcing cone, and a taller opening, permitting a 7-shot cylinder (and 5-shot .44 Specials...). The gripframe is the same as a K-frame. Additional 'out front' mass, to keep the muzzle down, is found in the predominantly full lugged barrel. It was thought that fc erosion would be a problem with lite (110-125gr) fast loads in the K-frames. Normal SAAMI spec'd loads 140-158gr+ were never a problem. An eroded/cracked fc simply means a replacement barrel is needed. Don't fear the longevity of a K-frame .357M!!
I'll take my 627 Pro over a Python any day of the week. An N-frame, it'll handle, like the K-frames (13/19 & 65/66), any standard SAAMI spec'd .357M. The 627 Pro also handles 8 at a time - moonclipped, if you like. It's spring loaded front sight allows tool-less sight changes in seconds. It comes with a slicked trigger of sorts, but an S&W trigger job isn't that expensive. Decent wood grips help, too - the Miculek's shown are on my JM 627PC now - the 627 Pro sports Ahrends 'retro targets' now. You could buy a new 627 Pro, HiViz sight, Ahrends grips, have a S&W trigger job, and buy some ammo for less than a fair at best Python - with who-knows-what having been shot from it. Works for me... but I am not a Colt fan.
Stainz
PS Re the K to L frame 'improvement'... it's a thicker front frame, allowing a larger OD forcing cone, and a taller opening, permitting a 7-shot cylinder (and 5-shot .44 Specials...). The gripframe is the same as a K-frame. Additional 'out front' mass, to keep the muzzle down, is found in the predominantly full lugged barrel. It was thought that fc erosion would be a problem with lite (110-125gr) fast loads in the K-frames. Normal SAAMI spec'd loads 140-158gr+ were never a problem. An eroded/cracked fc simply means a replacement barrel is needed. Don't fear the longevity of a K-frame .357M!!
revolverforums
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Sunray said:
I own a python and I have to admit that I have one 686SSR, a model 19 and a model 66 that all came from the factory with what I consider equal trigger feel and quality. I think the SSR is probably lighter and smoother while the 19 and 66 are about the same feel. I'm not knocking my python but to say that Smiths don't come as good isn't always true. I will say that your odds are probably better to pick up any python and get that great feel, but with some looking you will find factory smiths that can compare. But not all colts have that great feel, many like my anaconda feel pretty gritty.
wnycollector
Member
I have a model 27 6" and a model 28 4"...the plain jane model 28 is without a doubt the smoothest trigger I have ever felt! I think ANY P&R N frame will have a great trigger. I recently sold my Colt OMM...the grand dad of the python. I had heard all about the wonderfully smooth trigger of colts and deceided to take the colt plunge. The OMM had a smooth trigger but I could never get used to the "stacking" trigger in I frame colts
corpsmanup!
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I have a mod 65-5 for sale
Runningman
Member
I bought a S&W 66 K frame new in the mid 80s. Shot mostly 158 Gr 357 out of it along with some 125 Gr. By about 2000 rounds the cylinder was very loose. At around 2100 -2200 rounds the cylinder Paw? broke. I was not impressed all with the longevity of the 357 K frames after that experience. My advice is go with the N frame such as the Model 27. I like the N frames made in the 50s and 60s myself.
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