S&W Enters the Shotgun Market

[whitebear]

I noticed that my S&W stock shot (no pun intended) up dramatically in price starting at about 1:00 PM CST. I checked to see why, and, lo and behold:

Smith & Wesson Riding Shotgun

Smith & Wesson (nasdaq: SWHC - news - people ) is entering the shotgun market, announcing that it will unveil two new shotgun lines at a January trade show. Shares jumped nearly 8% in Thursday afternoon trading.

In September, the company had said that it was investigating whether to start manufacturing tactical rifles, hunting rifles and shotguns. The $1 billion long gun market is about 60% larger than the revolver and pistol market in which the legendary gun-maker specializes, according to the company.

“We have entered into an agreement with a team of industry veterans, who have formed a partnership and constructed manufacturing facilities with the sole purpose of producing our innovative line of Smith & Wesson designed shotguns,” said chief executive Michael Golden in a statement.

Shares of the company rose 96 cents, or 7.78%, to $13.25, where they have traded between $3.50 and $14.85 in the past year.

Quoted from Forbes.Com, via the link above

 

[RNB65]

Will they have internal locks? If so, I'll never buy one.

Looks like a foolish move to me. The scattergun market is very mature and dominated by Remington, Browning and Beretta. I don't see much opportunity for a new player to be very successful.

 

[Jim Watson]

Third time's the charm?
S&W marketed the dreadful 916 Nobel pump design for a while.
Then they sold shotguns made for them by Howa. The 3000 pump was close kin to a Remington 870 and said to be superior in some respects. The 1000 auto was a nice light hunting gun and the 1000 Skeet was the only "popular price" shotgun I know of to use the weird Tula choke.

 

[Correia]

The trade show in January will be SHOT. I'm interested to see what they do.

Their AR line left me uninspired, since they were basically rebranded Stags for a whole lot more money. I'm curious who will be building their shotguns.

 

[whitebear]

A little more info from the press release:
Side-by-sides are coming:

The Elite Series will initially consist of the Elite Gold(TM) side-by-side 20-gauge shotguns, and the Elite Silver(TM) over-and-under 12-gauge shotguns. The Elite Gold models will feature a patent-pending, Smith & Wesson designed trigger plate action, which enables a gracefully rounded and sculpted receiver; hand-cut checkering and engraving; AAA (grade III) Turkish walnut stocks; and a precise wood-to-metal fit. The Elite Silver Series will feature over-and-under 12-gauge shotguns that share the same custom design features as the Gold Series, with the addition of machined, monobloc barrels. Both the Elite Gold and Elite Silver shotguns will be crafted with hand engraved receivers finished in a true bone charcoal case hardening, for added protection and distinct coloring. The Smith & Wesson Elite Series will provide consumers with high-end shotguns in a value-added price range. Additional configurations and gauges within the series will be added in the future.

As well as semi-autos:

The Smith & Wesson 1000 Series of semi-automatic shotguns has been designed with features that place the 1000 Series among the lightest weight and most reliable self-loading shotguns on the market. At the core of the new 1000 Series is a gas cylinder mechanism that has been uniquely engineered to deliver top performance, regardless of even the harshest conditions. Lightweight, durable and capable of handling today's hardest recoiling loads, the 1000 Series will initially be available in 29 separate configurations. Each shotgun in the 1000 Series will also feature a broad array of components and accessories to satisfy the needs of professional sportsmen as well as novice hunters.

Apparently S&W-designed, but built by the good folks in Turkey:

The Smith & Wesson Elite Gold and Elite Silver Series of shotguns, as well as the new 1000 Series of semi-automatic shotguns, have been designed by Smith & Wesson and incorporate several pending patents. Because the series will be produced in facilities dedicated entirely to manufacturing Smith & Wesson shotguns, as opposed to private labeling, Smith & Wesson shotguns will be distinct and unique in the marketplace.

Golden continued, "By partnering with seasoned veterans and securing dedicated facilities in Turkey that have been built entirely for our use, we are entering the market with new products very quickly, with a high degree of quality, and with no investment of capital. The exclusivity within our agreement also allows us to control every element of product design, quality, and capacity, and will insure our ability to develop and deliver new and innovative shotgun models on a regular basis. That innovation has become a hallmark of the Smith & Wesson brand."

 

[ArmedBear]

Just what the world needs! More Turkish shotguns.

I'd buy a shotgun made in the US, Japan or even Russia, and shipped to Turkey for wood and final exterior finishing.

But I don't think I'll be buying a newfangled gun with Turkish internals until I've let someone else be the guinea pig. So far, the news has been consistently bad.

 

[BozemanMT]

Very nice, Very nice
S&W gets the gun business, they are looking to expand and be a one stop shop. They introduced cleaning supplies, lots of new guns, rifles and now shotguns.
Better as a small shop to have a few big orders (better price break) than a whole lot of small ones.
Yeah, I own S&W stock and have, and it's been a big winner.
Think about governments too, they want one stop shopping also.

More players the better.

And to those still stuck on their bad decisions in the 90's. THOSE OWNERS ARE GONE. The new owners are doing cool things and are worth looking into their products. (How many other new revolvers do you see coming out?)

BTW, I only actually own one S&W product (and I like it), but as a business, they get it.

 

[RNB65]

How many other new revolvers do you see coming out?

How many of those new revolvers don't have internal locks? I really don't see where I'll ever buy another S&W firearm again.

 

[MCgunner]

All they mentioned was tacticool stuff. I'll be interested to see what the side by sides look like.

Looks like a foolish move to me. The scattergun market is very mature and dominated by Remington, Browning and Beretta. I don't see much opportunity for a new player to be very successful.

I wonder if those three put together sell as many shotguns as Mossberg/Maverick?

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I'm with the "no lock" crowd, if they put one on it I won't even pick it up. Why bother?

I'm not against Turkish guns, they make some great stuff. However, I'm getting tired of all the "american" companies importing products (which is all they are doing) and jacking the price WAY up (Springfield and the XD9 still has me steaming). Yes, I guess they'll stand behind it and be responsible for warranty issues. However, that should not rasie the price of something by 50% or more.

I'll have to wait and see one first. If it doesn't have a lock, and if priced reasonably then maybe, just maybe

 

[Fred Fuller]

Uh oh. Ten years from now people will be asking questions about a new generation of orphaned shotguns bearing the S&W brand. Too bad...

lpl/nc

 

[georgeduz]

i hate to say this,but i have seen many turkish shot guns,but never a good one.please make them in the US

 

[JohnBT]

"I wonder if those three put together sell as many shotguns as Mossberg/Maverick?"

Mossberg doesn't even sell as many as Big Green. John
___________________________________________
www.shootingindustry.com/02pages/SpecRep.html

The top three shotgun companies in 2004 were:
• Remington: 319,702 (+6%)
• Mossberg: 208,313 (+16%
• H&R 1871: 116,346 (+2%).

 

[rockstar.esq]

John Browning save us from the incessent whining about locks!

For crying out loud you act like anything with an option you didn't order is a personal affront.

Never mind that S&W still makes fine shooting revolvers.

Never mind that S&W making headway towards providing more guns is good for the economy, good for shooters, and good for hunters.

So it's got a lock and you won't buy it. Your car door has a lock which doesn't have to be used to open the door. Maybe you're feeling too mechanically dependant because your cars ignition requires the key. THE GUN DOESN'T REQUIRE THE KEY!!! ERGO the gun is superior to the car! Of course you've still got all the fodder about worksmanship and bluing and all the whining that so many old farts engage in... Maybe just maybe the repeating yourselves about the doggonne locks has reached saturation. Perhaps it's time to move on to something more original and significant. Maybe you'd prefer a different color of gun, or maybe a silken purse to protect your new gun. Anything but more complaining about something so absurd!

 

[RNB65]

In that case, just forget about locks!

Will they be made in Turkey? If so, I'll never buy one. I've seen too many Turkish shotguns that were jam-o-matics or broke under light field use.

Of course, if the Turks can't build a reliable shotgun action, their internal lock mechanisms must be really bad.

 

[ugaarguy]

I don't like the internal locks either, and I consider them an additional, and unnecessary, part to potentially break. However, S&W does offer the new M&P Pistol without lock and without magazine safety. Hopefully the new shotguns will at least have the option to order without internal lock. Yes, the shotgun market is saturated, but the Benelli Nova carved itself a nice little niche over the last few years. The ATK/Benelli/Stoeger mega conglomorate is also selling Stoeger branded pumps, autos, and doubles in their own niches. The right product combination of price and desired features can sell.

The earlier "one stop shop" comments are also dead on. Small gun shop can hit one big order and get a discount across several lines. Even more so is the government market. It's much easier to get paperwork filled out and funds approved to buy from one source than several. S&W's M&P pistol is being well recieved from what I've seen. Now as a LE agency, how convient is it gonna be to get your sidearms and choice of popular long arm (Shotguns and AR type rifles) from a single source? If the quality is there I think S&W's current ownership is doing the smart thing by adding shotguns to the lineup. This will be interesting to watch and see what develops.

 

[Dave McCracken]

MCGunner, Mossie has made about 3 million pumps, including the Mavericks.

8 million 870s....

The defense rests....

 

[dfariswheel]

The last BATF numbers I saw said that Remington made almost TWICE the number of shotguns as their nearest competitor, Mossberg.

 

[Guntalk]

Impressive Shotguns

I've seen these guns. I've seen the internals. I've seen the wood. Next week I'll be shooting them.

They are, in a word, IMPRESSIVE. These are not being made by some Turkish company. They are being made in a new factory built entirely for the S&W shotguns.

The *internals* on the double guns are stunning. The autos appear to have taken many of the best features of several top guns on the market. Nothing really new, but a lot of thought into making a good gun.

There are dozens of master engravers in that region, so I expect to see some really high-grade models in a year or so. I bet Smith shows a dolled-up model at SHOT in January.

After I shoot the guns next week I'll post photos and a report on www.guntalk.com.

For those who are still mad at people who no longer work at S&W, and thus won't buy guns from a company no longer owned by those people . . . <shrug>

To introduce an entire line of guns . . . to enter a new (for that company) category of guns . . . to build a new factory . . . well, that takes some guts and a real commitment to the future of firearms in the U.S.

 

[Gordon]

They get NO applause from me by not investing in US production!
I think they should skip the apparel ect. ect. and concentrate on producing well made revolvers , A LOT of the garbage they been shoveling out lately is HORRIBLE in looks and quality. I bought a 1911PD that is pretty nice, infact very nice and I am proud because of THAT gun to be in the 1852 club. A few of the new revolvers I looked at lately were pretty good, despite not being pinned and recessed and made out of machined tool steel with real machined barrels. The distributors tell me they thank God for every one they get thas not a lemon. And then there is customer noservice. I know 1911sc owners that go back 2 times to work, LOTS of revolver owners that discover things machined off center ect. and go back for mickey mouse attempts to get the customer to quit bothering them
AND their master polisher quit! THE major US pistol manufacturer had ONE master polisher?????

 

[sm]

Jim Watson's post above - worth a re-read. These did not stand up on Skeet fields, or hunting.

Mossberg later had a Semi, that did not work either.

Stick to what you are good at, and do NOT fall into Line Extension.

John Browning Designed Guns.

Unwritten Rule - Manufacturers Respected each other's product lines and healthy competition.

JMB Sold his designs /licensed to folks, Like Colt, FN, Winchester. These same MFGs had their own thing going.

Wartime- All these shops with all these tools and specs, made whatever the War Effort needed. National Cash Register, Singer Sewing Machine...etc made guns in shops.
NCR , Singer don't make guns - they did for the War Effort.

Personal Opinions:
S&W should have NOT used the M&P on their handgun. To me , that was Disrespectful to a proven line, that EARNED that designation. This new offering should of had its own new name, and have feet held to fire to keep the new name and earn it.

Folks need to keep noses out of other folk's business. Too busy Cloning to make a fast buck, get into the hot ticket, and letting their current product deteriorate in materials , assembly and quality control.

Do a product like it is supposed to done, with metallurgy, craftsmanship, quality control , and service - price it as it should be priced. Do not worry about what others are doing, or trying to copy you. Do it right, price it right,and "if" IF customer service is needed , be the best at this service.

There is hardly anything some man cannot make cheaper and sell for less. Those who buy based on price alone are this man's prey - John Ruskin.

 

[Guntalk]

Yep, in the fine tradition of forums, the folks who have not seen the guns, have not talked to the people making the guns, have not handled the guns, and don't know anything about them, are, again, quick to cut down the product and the company.

The doubles can not, repeat, can not, be made in the U.S. In the numbers they anticipate, for the price these will come in at, there is no U.S. plant with workers able to make these guns. Period. Parade rest.

When you see the guns, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

In the coming years, look for *gauge-specific* size frames for the doubles. Very cool.

You know, guys, that S&W does not make apparel. It licenses that stuff, so it does not take away any capability from making guns. Ditto the other licensed stuff.

But, if you really hate the idea of a gun company extending its lines, you'll love the future. I expect there will be even more to rant about.

 

[Gordon]

"there is no U.S. plant with workers able to make these guns. Period. Parade rest."

Since WHEN did the Turks become the world's premier firearm manufacturer's???
If this is true I guess we should close all our plants and let others more ABLE make everything!
What we got here is chasing the almighty dollar , rather than investing in our future! Well I got my hundreds of vintage firearms from when up to less than a decade ago we jolly well had people who were ABLE TO MAKE THESE GUNS.
So big deal the 86 cent an hour with no retirement plan turks can spend the extra few hours engine turning a water table and inside a side plate! If the profits were reinvested in the manufacturing infra structure post WW2 instead of selling to foriegn investment brokers we could have plenty of Americans ABLE to make these guns. In fact , from Conn. to Calif. you have plenty of people ABLE to make these guns for machinists wages , but they want to pay Walmart stocker wages, there fore you can't get anybody ABLE to make these guns. Combine that with assinine enviromental laws where you can't do a turkish quality blue job in the Northeast and 'we can't make it here, anymore' :banghead: Hell I'll buy American(or Japanese or German or English) used before I help the new world order!
Just make an exact CNC copy with tool steel of a pre 1982 Model 27 S&W and you will have more people lined up to buy them for $1500 a pop than you could EVER hope for with Turkish trash and chinese knives and vietnames shirts.:banghead:

 

[Guntalk]

As I said . . .

 

[sm]

Tom ,

I am not upset with you, I respect you, what all you do and your perspectives. Thank you.
Just some of us have to pass forward this Curmudgeon as passed to us by Curmudgeons.

We are supposed to fuss, fume, talk up Wood & Blue 28 gauge guns, and share how we walked bare footed, up hill, both to and from school in the snow, in the hot humid summertime here in the South.

See? Makes sense now don't it?

Take care Sir!

Steve