S&W Enters the Shotgun Market

[Old Fuff]

Guntalk:

The doubles can not, repeat, can not, be made in the U.S. In the numbers they anticipate, for the price these will come in at, there is no U.S. plant with workers able to make these guns. Period. Parade rest.

Maybe, considering the handwork and engraving. And of course the difference in labor costs and overhead plays an important part too. But anyone who says "Anerican's can't" should look at Ruger's line of shotguns. May not be as fancy, but rock solid where it counts. The No. 1 rifle dosen't normally come with engraving, but it does everything it's supposed to.

I have nothing against Smith & Wesson, and I hope their new venture goes well. I have no doubt that they'll (the guns) be everything you say. Handgun locks aren't, or shouldn't be an issue.

But I'll still... Buy American.

 

[MCgunner]

MCGunner, Mossie has made about 3 million pumps, including the Mavericks.

8 million 870s....

The defense rests....

I can believe that. But mentioning Remington, Browning, and Beretta as "the three dominant players"? I'd think the two dominant players would be Remington and Mossberg, at least in the tacticool markets that this article is mentioning.

 

[BozemanMT]

ok, i don't understand the "not buying american" comment.
S&W is american. American owned, american profits, etc. So, they make the doubles overseas (although it does sound like Guntalk said that they made their own factory? I got confused there, can you clarify Guntalk?), BFD. The profits come back to america, that's the important part.

And to all you who say you would buy an american double, I call BS. It doesn't happen. They cost too much for most people and they sit. It's a niche market. Look at Connecticut Shotgun. They have an american made 20ga SxS beautiful, all made in America for under 3000 dollars. And yet it took them a year to sell out. Getting lower than that is almost impossible in a SxS. So, where were you ?

Nope, sorry, the only thing cheaper than most guns is the owners. How many posts are on here every day about "where to get the cheapest this or that?" or buy an express 870 instead of a wingmaster because it's a $100/$200 cheaper. To each his own, but the market has spoken and it wants cheap. Hell, look at any gun board's sale ads. Guns priced beteween 300 and $700 go real fast. Anything over that takes a LONG time to sell.
Sorry, the american market doesn't want quality, it wants cheap. For S&W to meet that price point and back their new guns, well I'm impressed

And I say hurrah to S&W for expanding and not selling out. Would you rather have winchester?

disclosure: I own shares of S&W

 

[Guntalk]

Great Times for Gun Owners

Brian:

The Smith shotguns are made in a new factory which was built specifically to make these guns. They will not appear anywhere else with someone else's name. They are made by Smith, in Turkey.

They will not be cheap. The doubles will probably be north of $2,000. Don't know the price on the auto.

As for Turkish guns, take a look at the Kimber Valier. It's a stunning 7-pin sidelock that would probably run $25,000 from England. It's just a bit above $5,000. High quality at good value.

Side note: I would not be surprised if, in the near future, the gun-buying public recognizes the value of Turkish guns, and the prices rise considerably. Frankly, I think these guns (Kimber, S&W) may well be a good investment.

I don't care how much you use CNC machines, you need craftsmen to do the final assembly on side-by-side guns, if they are to be done to a level to satisfy picky double gun lovers.

Expect the Ruger Gold Label price to go up considerably. It's a nice gun, and in making it, Ruger learned that it takes a lot of hand work to build a good SxS.

Tour the gun "factories" in Spain and you see craftsmen building guns. The better the gun, the smaller the factory. Some that I toured are about a dozen men, lined up at benches along the outside wall, with big windows for natural light. That was the "factory."

This expansion by Smith is almost like starting a new gun company. Wouldn't we all applaud a new gun company?

There are some other news developments coming in the next couple of months from several companies. These are great times for gun owners!

 

[45auto]

The side by sides seem to be a growing market so quality entries in the $2,000 should be welcome. If well done, I think they could sell what they plan.

The O/U market in that range is much more competitive and IMHO, tougher to sell into given the Browning/Beretta dominance, particulary in competitive shooting. Not an issue with side by sides.

But, you can't "hit a homerun if you don't swing".

I prefer American made also, but historically, 'double barreled' shotguns really haven't been an American "stronghold". They have concentrated on pumps and autos it seems.

 

[JohnBT]

Speaking of Connecticut Shotgun (and since we don't have any pics of the new S&W's to look at), I don't even have a real use for one of these and I'm tempted now after seeing these pics yesterday. Six pounds, double triggers & exhibition black walnut. - John...who'll probably just get another Guerini.

www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=57395&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=270

 

[Guntalk]

The RBL is just beautiful. I'm kicking myself that I did not order one!

 

[Onmilo]

I'm sure the guns will feature shrouded barrels that are impossible to remove without trashing the receiver, MiM triggers and hammers, and a goofy safety lock located on the left side of the receiver that uses a modified handcuff key,,,,,,

 

[Guntalk]

>>I'm sure the guns will feature shrouded barrels that are impossible to remove without trashing the receiver, MiM triggers and hammers, and a goofy safety lock located on the left side of the receiver that uses a modified handcuff key,,,,,,<<

Perhaps you are privy to information from a source. Care to tell more?

 

[Wakal]

LOL...there was a big story in the Ankara Daily News yesterday about this. The Turks are excited that their products are going "mainstream."

I'm headed down to the Huglu factory next month and will see if Smith and Weasel left anyone to work there





Alex

 

[El Tejon]

More guns the better, matters not where they are made as supply creates its own demand.

I own a couple of police trade in 3000s and am very happy. I could care less where they are made.

The controlling question is whether the weapons are any good and since the people who make them have very little idea of how to use them it is always an open question.

 

[Guntalk]

> The controlling question is whether the weapons are any good and since the people who make them have very little idea of how to use them it is always an open question<<

The Turks, or S&W?

 

[mndfusion]

I've had 2 turkish made air rifles, 1000 series, the 1st i returned because of accuracy the second one was a little better(=not accurate at all" -- both were not as accurate as my 20 dollar chicom, not even close.



Dan Wesson is owned by CZ now and I expect to see some happy customers. I want the new Dan Wesson .357 M15.


Revolvers in General have improved dramaticaly over the last 15- years companies like Dan Wesson and S&W and Taurus have really been doing great things with wheel guns. I like .357 - 38 cal revolvers -- Its just because of the range of power I can use from factory ammo from 160 ft lbs wad cutters to 800 ft lbs per sq in. Buffalo bore ammo. I do load my own ammo with my pocket size lee tool sometimes.

I own a SS S&W 60-10 with a 3 in brl. and that thing is awsome.. a real tack driver, and can hold its own at 25 yds. And my SS 85 Taurus snubnose shoots almost as good.

The larger frame that I like is the Dan wesson M15 with and scope it shoots MOA at 100 yds. Thats where we r with revolvers today.

We r living in a good time revovers r really coming to age its a new world for all of us wheell gun fans.

 

[Guntalk]

I shot the new S&W shotguns today. Very nice. They still have some details to work out, but these are impressive guns. The auto will be a strong player in that market. The doubles represent a good value, I think.

More information on these, the autos, and some new pistols on the www.guntalk.com web site in a couple of days.

Paul Pluff, from S&W, will be a guest on Gun Talk radio this Sunday.

 

[Guntalk]

Another photo of the 20-gauge double.

 

[El Tejon]

Tom, sorry, I should get more sleep as that was clear as mud. No, the manufacturers (whoever it is) of firearms have little idea how to use firearms.

I can count on one paw the number of makers (usually custom) who have any firearms training. The lack of training in the producers world makes weapons that are less than optimal.

Thanks for sharing the pics. Always good to have more guns on the market.

 

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[Srigs]

More the merrier in the market.

 

[Guntalk]

It had been about three years since I saw the S&W factory. Wow! Lots of changes.

More details on the Gun Talk web site, but they are making guns using some high-tech machines, and the pistols and revolvers are better than they used to be.

Case in point, the production barrels they made for the autos are more accurate than the Bar-Sto barrels they used to buy for the Performance Center guns. These are the barrels everyone gets now.

As for gun makers not knowing how to use guns . . . kinda hard to say that when a gun maker may have 200, 500, or 1000 employees. Which ones are you talking about?

At Smith, Kimber, Taurus, Ruger, and a bunch of others, the people who decide which products to make, and what features to include, are gun people. They have decades of shooting experience, lots of training, and eat and breathe guns.

Could be I don't understand the complaint, but I don't see it. In fact, the guns and selection we have today are simply better than at anytime . . . ever.

 

[Wakal]

the people who decide which products to make, and what features to include, are gun people. They have decades of shooting experience, lots of training, and eat and breathe guns

That is pretty funny stuff right there. I must go to a different SHOT show, and hang out with different gun companies (with some exceptions, like STI and CavArms). Bushmaster, Armalite, Colt, Slick and Weasel...all of them look at you like you are on crack when you talk about any kind of performance shooting vice plinking at the odd soda can or "breaking in to" the LE market (another bunch of folks who are not interested in shooting, but that is another story).

And I'm still looking forward to heading down around Konya and trying to sneak into the factory. Since this is Turkey, that chore should not be difficult



A

 

[Guntalk]

>> I must go to a different SHOT show, and hang out with different gun companies <<

I couldn't say. Maybe different people at the companies?

Maybe I'll see you at the plant in Turkey. <grin> I'm easy to find. You know my name. What's yours? I'll buy . . . oh . . . Turkey. Maybe not.

 

[CZguy]

Maybe I'll see you at the plant in Turkey. <grin> I'm easy to find. You know my name. What's yours? I'll buy . . . oh . . . Turkey. Maybe not.

Turkey has very good beer. Just stay away from the Yeni Raki.

 

[Guntalk]

Turkish beer? Outstanding!

Okay. What's Yeni Raki?

 

[CZguy]

Yeni Raki (Rocky to American's) is a clear Turkish liquor (very similar to Greek Ouzo) it tastes like black liquorish and is consumed by the Turks by pouring a shot glass into a glass of water, where it turns a milky white. (costs $2.00 a bottle) If you're not careful you can lose a day or two.

Turkey is a wonderful country, very underrated.

 

[oletymer]

"They are, in a word, IMPRESSIVE. These are not being made by some Turkish company. They are being made in a new factory built entirely for the S&W shotguns".

The plant was built by the Turks under an agreement to built S&W shotguns. The people making them are Turks who work for the plant owner not S&W. It is not rocket science to see these are made by a Turkish company and being imported by S&W.