S&W Governor?

[Driftwood Johnson]

The 1887 was used heavily by American forces in trench warfare during WW I, wasn't it?

Edit: Never mind. I was thinking of the 1897, not 87.

Pump gun versus lever gun.

Both the 1897 Winchester Pump shotgun and the Winchester Model 1912, later shortened to Model 12, were used in trench warfare during WW1. Often called Trench Brooms, they usually had short barrels often covered with a perforated sheet metal sheath to prevent the hand from coming into contact with a hot barrel. The beauty of these two models is they can be slam fired. You keep the trigger pressed and work the action as fast as you can. Every time the bolt closes, the hammer will fall, firing the weapon.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...hester-model-1897-trench-shotgun-with-bayonet



My Model 1897 and Model 12 would not make very good trench Brooms with their 30" barrels.

 

[Outlaw75]

My FIRM opinion is ,they should have made it to fire .45 Colt only.

That would have invalidated the premise; which was use a .410 to slow your attacker down, then the .45LC to do damage.

 

[Dibbs]

I have one, they handle very well, shoot very well, to point of aim,(albeit very short range), and have yet to find a load which will not penetrate 3/4 plywood, at defensive ranges.
For practical usage, IMO, they are hard to beat, in a snake infested area, and if you have to defend yourself, they'll do. They have either Scandium or Stainless finishes, which makes them very corrosion resistant.

 

[AK103K]

That would have invalidated the premise; which was use a .410 to slow your attacker down, then the .45LC to do damage.

Thats an invalid premeise from the start.

 

[Ernie Bass]

I have never owned nor shot one. Would be nice to learn about them rather than so many non relevant post. Especially from people that have never owned one.

 

[mope540]

I have never owned nor shot one. Would be nice to learn about them rather than so many non relevant post. Especially from people that have never owned one.

Too many ignorant people who have never shot one have the misconception that anything fired from a "gimmicky" Governor couldn't punch through a milk jug at 10 ft., if it could even hit the jug.

 

[AK103K]

Occasionally -- but try and find one. The cylinders on the Model 25 are really too short for the .45 Colt. It'll work but you have to watch Overall Length, especially with heavier bullets.

My buddy has an old 25 that is 45Colt. Basically a 29 in 45.

I have a 625 in 45acp, and its just got a shorter cylinder, longer barrel, or at least, longer protrusion into the frame to make up the difference. Its got a 4" barrel and is about a 1/4" longer than the Governor, and noticeably heavier.

Its a pretty good shooter too.





I suppose the ideal set up, would be the 45Colt gun cut for moon clips.

 

[Viper1357]

I wanted a S&W Governor all along but could never justify the cost for my needs or wants.
I've been happy with my Taurus Poly Public Defender for it's/my intended use. For a close up use (5-10 yards) defensive handgun in a big bore flavor for an affordable cost it's hard to beat it's versatility. You can use the boutique specialty .410 copper disc or buck shot loads for very up close use, and my particular unit really likes .45 LC for more max SD distances like 7-10 yards or so. When I first got it I had no druthers about about the .410 capabilities and limitations but I was really interested in an affordable short barreled lesser weighted .45 LC that was also inexpensive for home or vehicle defense use. I had some Mag Tech 250 Gr. .45 LC cowboy loads that I thought I'd try out in it and was quite surprised.
Well after the first couple shots I moved the adjustable rear sight blade over a couple clicks and was shocked at holding 2 - 3" POA to POI groups off hand standing with very little effort, meaning I wasn't slow fire bullseye trying, so I'm sure it shoots tighter than that, just sayin. The recoil was firm but not jarring, and actually fairly soft shooting compared to a J-Frame .38 for instance. I then ran my last 5 shots on the chrony and averaged out 697 fps with those big slugs. I wanted to dislike the Judge for whatever reason, but accuracy, cost, reliability, versatility, and shooting comfort (as odd as it sounds) makes me hang onto it in a specific area of my house. I trust it very much and have grown oddly fond of it. Definitely an odd duck for sure and not one of my prized possession pieces by any means, but it has a place for me at least for now. And It's paid for!!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

That would have invalidated the premise; which was use a .410 to slow your attacker down, then the .45LC to do damage.

Why slow him down when you can stop him with the first shot?

 

[Ernie Bass]

I wanted a S&W Governor all along but could never justify the cost for my needs or wants.
I've been happy with my Taurus Poly Public Defender for it's/my intended use. For a close up use (5-10 yards) defensive handgun in a big bore flavor for an affordable cost it's hard to beat it's versatility. You can use the boutique specialty .410 copper disc or buck shot loads for very up close use, and my particular unit really likes .45 LC for more max SD distances like 7-10 yards or so. When I first got it I had no druthers about about the .410 capabilities and limitations but I was really interested in an affordable short barreled lesser weighted .45 LC that was also inexpensive for home or vehicle defense use. I had some Mag Tech 250 Gr. .45 LC cowboy loads that I thought I'd try out in it and was quite surprised.
Well after the first couple shots I moved the adjustable rear sight blade over a couple clicks and was shocked at holding 2 - 3" POA to POI groups off hand standing with very little effort, meaning I wasn't slow fire bullseye trying, so I'm sure it shoots tighter than that, just sayin. The recoil was firm but not jarring, and actually fairly soft shooting compared to a J-Frame .38 for instance. I then ran my last 5 shots on the chrony and averaged out 697 fps with those big slugs. I wanted to dislike the Judge for whatever reason, but accuracy, cost, reliability, versatility, and shooting comfort (as odd as it sounds) makes me hang onto it in a specific area of my house. I trust it very much and have grown oddly fond of it. Definitely an odd duck for sure and not one of my prized possession pieces by any means, but it has a place for me at least for now. And It's paid for!!



View attachment 909456

I do not see them as a gimmicky fiream. I will leave that kind of description for the Internet experts. What it appears to me, is a tool, of which firearms have many different tools. The distances described for use from legitimate owners seems to be from 4-10 yds. 10 yds inside of a house is a long way. And least in my working class home. Maybe not a good choice if you live in the Hamptons. So In that regard, It would seem to be a good home defense firearm. Mayby that is what they are designed for. Easy to maneuver, and handle, etc.

Thanks for the poster that lead to the Paul Harrel review. And least some maturity there. How is the recoil? I would like to try one out just for the heck of it but they never seem to be available for rental nor do I know of anyone that has one.

 

[Outlaw75]

Why slow him down when you can stop him with the first shot?

If memory serves it's intended audience was people who are not proficient shooters. (If that makes sense!) I always thought of it as being along the lines of a pump shotgun, loaded with a buckshot round followed by a slug. That was the old school home defense recommendation for non-shooters.

 

[Dibbs]

The Gov is surprisingly light weight, and very intimidating, in appearance. Also fits fairly well in a front pocket, for it's size.
As to the folks who don't own one, if I showed up on a thread, trashing a revolver I didn't have first-hand experience with,
I'd be Satan. Not that it would change much . . .

 

[scaatylobo]

What gun were you shooting you couldnt make decent hits at 25'?


Doesnt/didnt S&W already make some of those?

Considering the "jump" for the 45acp, I was amazed at how well my Governor shoots with them. Even the 45 Colt shoots OK, but so far, Ive only tried one load with it, and I can probably find or come up with something it likes better.

I stand by my firm belief that IF they had shortened the cylinder for only .45 Colt,AND made it in the polymer frame .

It would be the perfect BUG or CCW.

And it was a while back,but it was a Taurus [ same gun,different name ] and the FACT that there were OOO pellets OUTSIDE the target that could hit innocents = made up my mind.

Anchor for a small boat,BUT great for those who fear snakes ------ and cannot shoot.

 

[TTv2]

I never got around to testing that specific load. I did shoot up a bunch of the Federal "Handgun" load, at just a few feet out would not penetrate a single gallon jug of water.

We're these the #4 or 000 Buck Federal .410 handgun ammo?

I don't see anything that the Hornady load will do that can fundamentally change all the shortcomings of a 410 handgun.

I know Hornady developed these for the .410 handguns, but I think this ammo does a lot better in a true .410 shotgun. IraqVeteran on youtube did a video of the .410 Shockwave last week and used that ammo. Very accurate out to 25 yards and it hit those plates hard.

 

[gotboostvr]

@TTv2

I don't remember which one it was anymore. At the time I belive it was the only one they offered.

 

[TTv2]

My plastic judge is for while riding the mower. It is lightweight and convenient, I have dispatched copperheads with it effectively from beyond shovel range. Ten foot distance patterns are just fine with size 8 shot. But that's about it for my purposes with it.

I had considered a Bond before they had the economy models available, but chose the plastic judge and it suits well for it's purpose. Might have to get a Bond one day though....

For me I can't justify the much higher priced Governor for any purpose.

I agree with all of this. The Governor is expensive and doesn't do anything much better than the Judge does relative to the price. IMO, the smaller the Judge, the better the Judge is. I have the Public Defender and the extra heft of it makes shooting everything feel better, including the Federal 4 pellet 000 Buck and the PD will shoot the .45 Colt as well as any longer barrel Judge will.

The Bonds are about the same weight as the Public Defender, cost more than the PD, and hold 3 less rounds, are slower to reload, and have terrible sights. I know they look pretty and feel like quality and people can waste their money how they see fit, but I wish those derringers never existed. Too many people have been suckered into thinking they were something they're not: a small, convenient gun to carry.

 

[labnoti]

I think "novelty" might be more fair than "gimmick." For sure, I think people ignorant of the .410 shotshell's relatively poor defensive performance ought to inform themselves before they misplace confidence and false hope in it in lieu of sound alternatives. Nevertheless, I do not begrudge the devices any more than I would a derringer, those tiny rimfire revolvers, Desert Eagles, double-barrel 1911's, or folding Glocks.

I do not think shotshells are a lost-cause in concealable firearms, but I think what might make sense is more like a Tac-13 with a telescopic arm brace -- not the SB Tactical style with the useless buffer tube, but something more like the brace on the MPX Copperhead with the slide-out rods, and for the short LoP, it needs a mostly-vertical pistol grip, not the birdshead. It would probably result in insufficient OAL to meet some regulatory needs, but I think that's essential for concealability and so maybe it would have to be an NFA item.

 

[AK103K]

I stand by my firm belief that IF they had shortened the cylinder for only .45 Colt,AND made it in the polymer frame .

It would be the perfect BUG or CCW.

And it was a while back,but it was a Taurus [ same gun,different name ] and the FACT that there were OOO pellets OUTSIDE the target that could hit innocents = made up my mind.

Anchor for a small boat,BUT great for those who fear snakes ------ and cannot shoot.

I wouldnt consider any of them as a daily carry gun or a BUG. Better things for both of those uses. These are a special use gun.

I wouldnt call the S&W and the Taurus the "same" gun either. Same type maybe, but from what Ive seen, different critters altogether. Ive had experience with other Taurus guns in the past, and their CS department, and the main reason I didnt bother with them and went with the S&W when I came across it.

The Governor I have has no troubles consistently making good solid hits on POA at 10-15+ yards with the buckshot loads. Other than the slight spread with the buck loads, and a little more recoil, they shoot just as well as the 45Colt and 45acp. If you were missing the target at the distances you describe, there was something wrong there. Have you shot one of the S&W's and had the same issue? Maybe it wasnt the gun?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If memory serves it's intended audience was people who are not proficient shooters. (If that makes sense!) I always thought of it as being along the lines of a pump shotgun, loaded with a buckshot round followed by a slug. That was the old school home defense recommendation for non-shooters.

But hitting with a charge of shot is not much easier than hitting with a bullet under defense conditions -- look at some of the targets posted here and see how small the shot patterns are. Rather than hit with a charge of shot, hit with a 255 grain wide nose flat point.

 

[Gordon]

You sort of have to correlate the testing depicted in the two videos here. In the first one, a guy tests the patterning of the .410 Federal buckshot load across various distances:



In this video, Jerry Miculek shows the penetration of the same load against ballistic gelatin (the final test in the clip):



.

I have a stainless Taurus Public Defender with the 21/2" barrel. The Federal 4 pellet load of #
000 copper plated buckshot is an awesome load ! ALL gelatine tests say pellets travel an average of 13" in balistic gel at 7 yards which is ideal according to FBI standards. The copper plating really help buckshot penetrate in flesh and bone. Mine holds 4" patterns very uniformly at 7 yards . It is pretty darn accurate with the 225 grain .45 Colt Hollow points also and no slouch with 250 grain cowboy loads ! The sights are very good too for fast pickup, and the gun is very well made and surprising on the finish. I think the S&W Governors I have played with are a bit better but not as slim as the Taurus as they hold six shots. I also don't like the cheasy looking S&W inserted barrel , that looks tacky. But make no mistake, these .410 shot pistols with the new Federal handgun load are awesome destruction ! Four 000 Buck is half a 12 gauge load worth ! I bought 250 of the Federal load and shot half of it up breaking in the gun, it is an awesome round and has become a regular CCW for me and a favored beside gun. For quick nightime work that 4" spread at 7 yards really helps get hits quick on moving targets. My Public defender weighs 26 .oz unloaded and 2 pounds loaded with 20 triple ought (.36) plated shot !!! I bought a few boxes of Noble 0000 (.40 caliber) three pellet loads, Not as good as the new Federal Handgun but still pretty awesome power and 6" groups at 7 yards. Both these loads keep all the pellets on an ipsc shilo if you are aiming center.

 

[Ernie Bass]

Nice review!

 

[CajunBass]

Back when I lived "out in the country" I thought about getting one for a bumming around the woods gun. Those days when I wasn't really shooting at anything, but might shoot at something. I never did, but did hold one (S&W) once. I fully expected it to feel like a brick on the end of a stick but was surprised to find it actually handled pretty well. I still didn't buy one, some other bright shiny thing caught my eye I'm sure. Then I moved back to town and lost what interest I had in them.

 

[Armored farmer]

Ive had a Governor for a little over a year now. For a long time, I didnt see them (and mostly the Judges) as much more than something someone who wasnt a shooter was sold a line of goods at the local gun shop.

I do think the Governor is a quite a few steps above the Taurus Judges Ive seen. The S&W is light, well made and well balanced, and feels a lot better in the hand than it might look. It points and shoots a lot more naturally than you might think too. It has a comfortable K/L frame grip, and is comfortable to shoot.

Now that I have one, and shot it a good bit, my opinion on them has changed.

As has been mentioned, I think the shotgun part of this is best reserved and served for little critters and snakes. The buck loads shoot OK, and are accurate, but I dont know how effective they would be. Guess the only way to find out, is actually shoot something living with it.

Now the 45Colt and 45acp are a different story, and both shoot well in mine, and the 45acp seems to shoot the best, which kind of surprised me. The other advantage to the acp is, they use the same moon clips as my 625, and are quickly reloaded.

You can also use the HKS speed loaders with the 45Colt.

I keep mine in an El Paso Tanker and in it, its very handy. The pouches hold a mix of bunch of 45acp on clips and 410 shot loads.

View attachment 909368
View attachment 909369

Its been awhile now, but Im pretty sure these were all shot at 10 yards. The first was a couple of Federal #4 shot 410....

View attachment 909370

This was two or three cylinders of 45Colt....

View attachment 909371

And this was two or three of 45acp....

View attachment 909372

This was a couple of rounds of Federal 000 Buck (4 pieces of buck). The first round was shot at "the nose" and impacted a little right. The second round was shot in the light area to the right of the head, just to see if the vertical stringing was what was the norm, which it was. Those were also shot at around 10 yards.

I also shot one round up close at around 5 yards, and that is just under the "collar". As you can see, its a bit tighter too.

They seem to shoot consistently and accurately, and it would likely still spoil someones day at close range. I think like with a shotgun, many seem to think they are going to get doorway filling spreads at across the room distances, and thats just not going to be the case, with either. Just like anything else, you need to pick the target and shoot it.

View attachment 909373

Both the pistol calibers were shot pretty quickly DAO. I wanted to see how the gun actually shot, and wasnt trying to shoot for groups.

While it is kind of a novelty gun, I think its a very viable "field" gun, that would work pretty much anywhere, and quite well in that role.

I like that rig.
As you and others have said, i think a Governor is a great fishing gun/camp gun/guide gun.

 

[Armored farmer]

Both the 1897 Winchester Pump shotgun and the Winchester Model 1912, later shortened to Model 12, were used in trench warfare during WW1. Often called Trench Brooms, they usually had short barrels often covered with a perforated sheet metal sheath to prevent the hand from coming into contact with a hot barrel. The beauty of these two models is they can be slam fired. You keep the trigger pressed and work the action as fast as you can. Every time the bolt closes, the hammer will fall, firing the weapon.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...hester-model-1897-trench-shotgun-with-bayonet



My Model 1897 and Model 12 would not make very good trench Brooms with their 30" barrels.

View attachment 909412

View attachment 909413

Your model 12 belongs on the trap range, it's a beaut!

 

[Outlaw75]

But hitting with a charge of shot is not much easier than hitting with a bullet under defense conditions -- look at some of the targets posted here and see how small the shot patterns are. Rather than hit with a charge of shot, hit with a 255 grain wide nose flat point.

I agree. I'm just relating how it was explained to me back in the day. I've only ever seen one in the wild. An elderly couple (looked to be in their early 80's) out at my local range. They were struggling with it because they'd bought (or been sold) .45ACP instead of .45LC. One of the RO's was helping them and came over to borrow a couple of rounds off me (I was shooting SAA's that day) so he could explain the difference between rimmed and rimless to them.