Baneblade
Member
We recently authorized personally owned rifles for Patrol use. As such, we conducted a Patrol Rifle class and send two instructors (myself included) to the Rifle Instructor School. We were provided with several brands of equipment to test, including two S&W M&P 15 AR-15 rifles. Here are the evals we typed up and sent to S&W and our distributor.
If you don't feel like reading the whole eval... here is the short version. No malfunctions of any type with over 800 rounds fired. Both rifles had bad receivers and were eventually returned for service. The fit and finish (aside from the problem areas on the receiver) is the best I have seen on any production brand AR-15 rifle.
As a side note, Sheriff Joe Arpaio built his Deputies the nicest police range I have ever seen. I am sure there is a better one out there somewhere, but not in Arizona.
Here is my eval:
Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Test and Evaluation
The Flagstaff Police Department recently approved personally owned AR-15 rifles for patrol use by individual officers. As a result we conducted a Patrol Rifle class and sent two instructors (myself included) to the AZPOST Rifle Instructor School. Only 5 rifles manufacturers were initially approved for officer use, including S&W. As a part of the process we requested a Test and Evaluation rifle.
The first rifle we received was a S&W M&P15 (#811000) which is the civilian equivalent of the M-4 with detachable carry handle. We took the rifle out to the Patrol Rifle class and fired approximately 100 rounds through it. While firing the rifle, the bolt catch fell off. The roll pin had worked loose and fallen out. I notified S&W and they shipped out a new roll pin. I lined everything up and tried to use a roll pin starter. However, I discovered the bolt catch roll pin hole was large enough that I was able to insert the pin using just my fingers. I again contacted S&W and they provided me with an apology, shipping label, and a new rifle.
The second rifle was also a S&W M&P15 (#811002) which is also an M-4 equivalent, except this model includes a Troy flip-up rear sight instead of the detachable carry handle. We took this rifle to the week long Rifle Instructor School and used it for the full course. Unfortunately this rifle had the same problem as the first. During the first day we saw that the bolt catch roll pin was backing out, and again we were able to force it back in with our fingers. Later in the evening we used an awl to enlarge one end of the roll pin and then forced it back into the receiver. This held for the remainder of the class.
During the first day of training we performed multiple tactical exchanges, which required us to support the shouldered weight of the rifle with the primary hand while the support hand manipulated the magazines. The other officer (who used the rifle for the whole week) found this procedure excessively painful on his primary hand middle finger. Later in the evening we examined the gun more closely and found an issue with the trigger guard ears. The ears came down farther than they should on a normal rifle. This caused two sharp protrusions on the rifle, which dug into the middle finger. We used some calipers to measure the receiver and found the ears were a full millimeter longer than a standard AR-15 (Bushmaster and Colt). We were able to examine another S&W LE M&P15 at the Scottsdale Gun Club and found that it did not have the same problem as our T&E rifle.
These two problems put a damper on the whole T&E experience. However, those were the only problems we had. We fired approximately 800 rounds of American Eagle 55 grain FMJ through the rifle without a single failure. The rifle was not cleaned prior to initial use, but was cleaned after approximately 200 rounds. We used the Pmag the rifle came with along some other Pmags. We also used two D&D Magazines (aluminum with green followers). The rifle proved accurate and was able to score consistent hits at 300 yards. The front sight did not need adjusting for a 50 yard zero, but the Troy sight did need a rather significant windage adjustment.
The Troy sight proved to be adequate, but I believe it should be used as a backup sight and not the primary sight. The windage was easily adjusted using the back of a spent casing. However, it was very difficult to make a windage adjustment without a tool or implement, and impossible while wearing gloves. Elevation changes require the use of a tool. If this is a close quarters weapon only, then there is no problem. Also, the sight was regularly bumped so that the aperture was in a half-way position. This prevented the sight from being used until you flipped the aperture one way or the other. This was a hassle on timed drills and is unacceptable for a combat sight. Also, the sight can only be stored with the large aperture in place. That said, the sight was accurate and seems to be an ideal backup iron sight.
I cleaned the rifle before returning it and used the opportunity to inspect much of it. I was impressed with the overall fit and finish. It had a “clean” look, the finish was evenly applied, and some of the usual machining marks were not to be found. I am the head armorer for the department and inspect a variety of brands. This rifle had the best overall look to it.
I believe the Smith and Wesson M&P AR-15 rifles to be a reliable, good quality rifle with above average fit and finish. Aside from the two problems before mentioned the rifle appeared perfect. Based on the problem with both rifles it would appear there was a bad batch of receivers. The majority of this evaluation spelled out the problems we had, but I would like to emphasize that the rifle did not have a single failure and that is what is most important to us. After completing the test and evaluation our agency will still be authorizing S&W rifles for patrol use and I would recommend them to anyone looking to purchase one.
Here is the eval from the other officer:
ON 111509 I WAS PROVIDED WITH A NEW AND UNFIRED DEMO SMITH AND WESSON MP-15 TO BE USED IN A RIFLE INSTRUCTORS CLASS HELD 111609-112009 AT THE MCSO RANGE LOCATED IN BUCKEYE ARIZONA.
I LOOKED OVER THE RIFLE AND INITIALLY FOUND IT TO BE WELL PUT TOGETHER WITH EXCELLENT FIT AND FINISH. THIS RIFLE WAS EQUIPPED WITH A REAR FLIP UP SIGHT MANUFACTURED BY TROY, COLLAPSIBLE STOCK AND CAME FROM THE FACTORY WITH P-MAGS.
DURING THE WEEK LONG CLASS I USED TWO 30 ROUND D&D MAGAZINES AND TWO 30 ROUND P-MAGS. I DID NOT EXPERIENCE A SINGLE MALFUNCTION OF ANY KIND USING FEDERAL 55 GRAIN FMJ AND SHOT IN EXCESS OF 800 ROUNDS.
ON DAY TWO APPROX (200 ROUNDS) I OBSERVED THAT THE ROLL PIN FOR THE BOLT CATCH WAS WORKING ITS WAY OUT AND WAS EASILY PUSHED BACK IN WITH VIRTUALLY NO PRESSURE USING A FINGER. I WAS ABLE TO GET THROUGH DAY TWO AND JUST KEPT ON EYE ON THE PIN AND MADE SURE IT WAS ALWAYS PUSHED IN.
AFTER DAY TWO WAS COMPLETED I REMOVED THE ROLL PIN AND NOT HAVING ANY SPARE PARTS I EXPANDED THE DIAMETER THE ROLL PIN AND RE-INSTALLED IT. I DID NOT HAVE ANY FURTHER PROBLEMS WITH THE ROLL PIN BACKING OUT FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE CLASS. I SUSPECT THIS IS NOT AN ISOLATED INCIDENT SINCE THIS RIFLE WAS A REPLACEMENT FOR AN IDENTICAL RIFLE THAT WAS SENT BACK WITH THE SAME PROBLEM WEEKS BEFORE THIS CLASS.
DURING DAY TWO I ALSO NOTICED THAT THE TABS ON THE TRIGGER GUARD WERE NOT FLUSH AND HUNG DOWN APPROXIMATELY 1/8 INCH ON EACH SIDE. THIS WAS VERY UNCOMFORTABLE AND WOULD DIG INTO YOUR MIDDLE FINGER ESPECIALLY DURING RELOADS WHEN THE RIFLE HAD TO REMAIN ON TARGET AND BEING HELD WITH ONE
HAND. THE ONLY TEMPORARY SOLUTION I COULD COME WITH WAS TAPING MY FINGER UP. I INSPECTED ANOTHER MP-15 AT SCOTTSDALE GUN CLUB AND THIS WAS NOT PRESENT ON THE ONE DISPLAYED AT SGC.
AFTER USING THE REAR FLIP UP SIGHT AS A PRIMARY SIGHT I WAS DISAPPOINTED IN ITS USABILITY. THE SIGHT REQUIRES EITHER A TOOL OR A PIECE OF BRASS TO MAKE SIGHT ADJUSTMENTS WHICH MADE FIELD ADJUSTMENTS DIFFICULT AND INCONVENIENT. THE SECOND PROBLEM I HAD WITH THE REAR SIGHT WAS THE APERTURE BEING EASILY BUMPED DURING DRILLS AND KNOCKED TO THE HALF WAY POINT AND ENDING UP WITH NO APERTURE. MY THIRD COMPLAINT WAS WHEN THE SIGHT WAS IN THE DOWN POSITION IT COULD ONLY BE LEFT IN ONE APERTURE POSITION AND YOU COULD NOT CHOOSE WHAT APERTURE YOU WANTED TO KEEP IN THE STORED POSITION. OVER ALL THE SIGHT WAS WELL MADE, DID NOT COME LOOSE AND WOULD BE AN EXCELLENT CHOICE FOR A BACK UP ONLY SIGHT IF YOU WERE USING A RED DOT OR OTHER SIGHTING DEVICE.
I HAVE READ REVIEWS OF THIS RIFLE AND HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING CONCERNING MY PROBLEM WITH THE TRIGGER GUARD TABS OR THE BOLT CATCH ROLL PIN. I HOPE THESE TWO RIFLES WERE THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.
If you don't feel like reading the whole eval... here is the short version. No malfunctions of any type with over 800 rounds fired. Both rifles had bad receivers and were eventually returned for service. The fit and finish (aside from the problem areas on the receiver) is the best I have seen on any production brand AR-15 rifle.
As a side note, Sheriff Joe Arpaio built his Deputies the nicest police range I have ever seen. I am sure there is a better one out there somewhere, but not in Arizona.
Here is my eval:
Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Test and Evaluation
The Flagstaff Police Department recently approved personally owned AR-15 rifles for patrol use by individual officers. As a result we conducted a Patrol Rifle class and sent two instructors (myself included) to the AZPOST Rifle Instructor School. Only 5 rifles manufacturers were initially approved for officer use, including S&W. As a part of the process we requested a Test and Evaluation rifle.
The first rifle we received was a S&W M&P15 (#811000) which is the civilian equivalent of the M-4 with detachable carry handle. We took the rifle out to the Patrol Rifle class and fired approximately 100 rounds through it. While firing the rifle, the bolt catch fell off. The roll pin had worked loose and fallen out. I notified S&W and they shipped out a new roll pin. I lined everything up and tried to use a roll pin starter. However, I discovered the bolt catch roll pin hole was large enough that I was able to insert the pin using just my fingers. I again contacted S&W and they provided me with an apology, shipping label, and a new rifle.
The second rifle was also a S&W M&P15 (#811002) which is also an M-4 equivalent, except this model includes a Troy flip-up rear sight instead of the detachable carry handle. We took this rifle to the week long Rifle Instructor School and used it for the full course. Unfortunately this rifle had the same problem as the first. During the first day we saw that the bolt catch roll pin was backing out, and again we were able to force it back in with our fingers. Later in the evening we used an awl to enlarge one end of the roll pin and then forced it back into the receiver. This held for the remainder of the class.
During the first day of training we performed multiple tactical exchanges, which required us to support the shouldered weight of the rifle with the primary hand while the support hand manipulated the magazines. The other officer (who used the rifle for the whole week) found this procedure excessively painful on his primary hand middle finger. Later in the evening we examined the gun more closely and found an issue with the trigger guard ears. The ears came down farther than they should on a normal rifle. This caused two sharp protrusions on the rifle, which dug into the middle finger. We used some calipers to measure the receiver and found the ears were a full millimeter longer than a standard AR-15 (Bushmaster and Colt). We were able to examine another S&W LE M&P15 at the Scottsdale Gun Club and found that it did not have the same problem as our T&E rifle.
These two problems put a damper on the whole T&E experience. However, those were the only problems we had. We fired approximately 800 rounds of American Eagle 55 grain FMJ through the rifle without a single failure. The rifle was not cleaned prior to initial use, but was cleaned after approximately 200 rounds. We used the Pmag the rifle came with along some other Pmags. We also used two D&D Magazines (aluminum with green followers). The rifle proved accurate and was able to score consistent hits at 300 yards. The front sight did not need adjusting for a 50 yard zero, but the Troy sight did need a rather significant windage adjustment.
The Troy sight proved to be adequate, but I believe it should be used as a backup sight and not the primary sight. The windage was easily adjusted using the back of a spent casing. However, it was very difficult to make a windage adjustment without a tool or implement, and impossible while wearing gloves. Elevation changes require the use of a tool. If this is a close quarters weapon only, then there is no problem. Also, the sight was regularly bumped so that the aperture was in a half-way position. This prevented the sight from being used until you flipped the aperture one way or the other. This was a hassle on timed drills and is unacceptable for a combat sight. Also, the sight can only be stored with the large aperture in place. That said, the sight was accurate and seems to be an ideal backup iron sight.
I cleaned the rifle before returning it and used the opportunity to inspect much of it. I was impressed with the overall fit and finish. It had a “clean” look, the finish was evenly applied, and some of the usual machining marks were not to be found. I am the head armorer for the department and inspect a variety of brands. This rifle had the best overall look to it.
I believe the Smith and Wesson M&P AR-15 rifles to be a reliable, good quality rifle with above average fit and finish. Aside from the two problems before mentioned the rifle appeared perfect. Based on the problem with both rifles it would appear there was a bad batch of receivers. The majority of this evaluation spelled out the problems we had, but I would like to emphasize that the rifle did not have a single failure and that is what is most important to us. After completing the test and evaluation our agency will still be authorizing S&W rifles for patrol use and I would recommend them to anyone looking to purchase one.
Here is the eval from the other officer:
ON 111509 I WAS PROVIDED WITH A NEW AND UNFIRED DEMO SMITH AND WESSON MP-15 TO BE USED IN A RIFLE INSTRUCTORS CLASS HELD 111609-112009 AT THE MCSO RANGE LOCATED IN BUCKEYE ARIZONA.
I LOOKED OVER THE RIFLE AND INITIALLY FOUND IT TO BE WELL PUT TOGETHER WITH EXCELLENT FIT AND FINISH. THIS RIFLE WAS EQUIPPED WITH A REAR FLIP UP SIGHT MANUFACTURED BY TROY, COLLAPSIBLE STOCK AND CAME FROM THE FACTORY WITH P-MAGS.
DURING THE WEEK LONG CLASS I USED TWO 30 ROUND D&D MAGAZINES AND TWO 30 ROUND P-MAGS. I DID NOT EXPERIENCE A SINGLE MALFUNCTION OF ANY KIND USING FEDERAL 55 GRAIN FMJ AND SHOT IN EXCESS OF 800 ROUNDS.
ON DAY TWO APPROX (200 ROUNDS) I OBSERVED THAT THE ROLL PIN FOR THE BOLT CATCH WAS WORKING ITS WAY OUT AND WAS EASILY PUSHED BACK IN WITH VIRTUALLY NO PRESSURE USING A FINGER. I WAS ABLE TO GET THROUGH DAY TWO AND JUST KEPT ON EYE ON THE PIN AND MADE SURE IT WAS ALWAYS PUSHED IN.
AFTER DAY TWO WAS COMPLETED I REMOVED THE ROLL PIN AND NOT HAVING ANY SPARE PARTS I EXPANDED THE DIAMETER THE ROLL PIN AND RE-INSTALLED IT. I DID NOT HAVE ANY FURTHER PROBLEMS WITH THE ROLL PIN BACKING OUT FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE CLASS. I SUSPECT THIS IS NOT AN ISOLATED INCIDENT SINCE THIS RIFLE WAS A REPLACEMENT FOR AN IDENTICAL RIFLE THAT WAS SENT BACK WITH THE SAME PROBLEM WEEKS BEFORE THIS CLASS.
DURING DAY TWO I ALSO NOTICED THAT THE TABS ON THE TRIGGER GUARD WERE NOT FLUSH AND HUNG DOWN APPROXIMATELY 1/8 INCH ON EACH SIDE. THIS WAS VERY UNCOMFORTABLE AND WOULD DIG INTO YOUR MIDDLE FINGER ESPECIALLY DURING RELOADS WHEN THE RIFLE HAD TO REMAIN ON TARGET AND BEING HELD WITH ONE
HAND. THE ONLY TEMPORARY SOLUTION I COULD COME WITH WAS TAPING MY FINGER UP. I INSPECTED ANOTHER MP-15 AT SCOTTSDALE GUN CLUB AND THIS WAS NOT PRESENT ON THE ONE DISPLAYED AT SGC.
AFTER USING THE REAR FLIP UP SIGHT AS A PRIMARY SIGHT I WAS DISAPPOINTED IN ITS USABILITY. THE SIGHT REQUIRES EITHER A TOOL OR A PIECE OF BRASS TO MAKE SIGHT ADJUSTMENTS WHICH MADE FIELD ADJUSTMENTS DIFFICULT AND INCONVENIENT. THE SECOND PROBLEM I HAD WITH THE REAR SIGHT WAS THE APERTURE BEING EASILY BUMPED DURING DRILLS AND KNOCKED TO THE HALF WAY POINT AND ENDING UP WITH NO APERTURE. MY THIRD COMPLAINT WAS WHEN THE SIGHT WAS IN THE DOWN POSITION IT COULD ONLY BE LEFT IN ONE APERTURE POSITION AND YOU COULD NOT CHOOSE WHAT APERTURE YOU WANTED TO KEEP IN THE STORED POSITION. OVER ALL THE SIGHT WAS WELL MADE, DID NOT COME LOOSE AND WOULD BE AN EXCELLENT CHOICE FOR A BACK UP ONLY SIGHT IF YOU WERE USING A RED DOT OR OTHER SIGHTING DEVICE.
I HAVE READ REVIEWS OF THIS RIFLE AND HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING CONCERNING MY PROBLEM WITH THE TRIGGER GUARD TABS OR THE BOLT CATCH ROLL PIN. I HOPE THESE TWO RIFLES WERE THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.
