So today I went a Cabelas in Wa, to get some primers, and checked out the new gun counter, and noticed a S&W, auto that looked like a 909 in stainless steel, and the clerk assured me it was new production. It was about the size of a glock 19, but I was in too much of a hurry to get the model, and cant find anything on the website. Price was $799. Anyone know what these are?
S&W nice pistols again?
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lsudave
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Most likely it's a over-run of the 5926; I've heard that these are still in use some places (Canadian "Mounties", I think). I think there was a thread going on over at the S&W forum.
Second, these aren't cheaply made polymer guns, they're every bit the engineering match of a Sig, and they have a stainless frame in addition to the slide. Even at $800, they trounce the price of a stainless framed Sig or Beretta, and are probably close to a stainless CZ.
People are spoiled by the Glocks, M&Ps and XDs. Quality steel pistols aren't cheap. I think the S&Ws used to run around this price when they were in production.
Two things about that... first is that in the thread I read, the price dropped to a more manageable $599... I remember clicking on the link and seeing that price. Don't know if all Cabela's would agree to match.
Second, these aren't cheaply made polymer guns, they're every bit the engineering match of a Sig, and they have a stainless frame in addition to the slide. Even at $800, they trounce the price of a stainless framed Sig or Beretta, and are probably close to a stainless CZ.
People are spoiled by the Glocks, M&Ps and XDs. Quality steel pistols aren't cheap. I think the S&Ws used to run around this price when they were in production.
DeadEye9
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Are you certain since you were in a hurry that it wasn't one of their 1911 Commander size options? To my knowledge the 909-910 was discontinued production around 2008-2009. The only current stainless slide pistols I see available for order currently through them are the M&P series, SD series (neither of which have exposed hammers so wouldn't look like a 909/5900) and their SW1911. They also have a few stainless .22s but none of them look like a 909. CAbellas is a good store but their employees aren't always "in the know" so it may have been a new firearm but not new production. Or it's something they have that isn't available for order by my LGS online software, which doesn't usually happen .
Hangingrock
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I believe that's a misnomer which infers lack of quality. From an engineering point of view the designs are well thought out and employ creditable manufacturing technology that reflects efficiency in material selection and production methodology thus production cost. This reminds me of the difference between forged and cast parts both have their applications cost and efficiency requirements.
Same issues with MIM parts, which in the S&W 3Gen series results in a slicker trigger because the parts aren't ground into shape by worn tooling. MIM leaves a smooth surface finish in the sear engagement. My 4566TSW has a nice trigger. MIM doesn't constitute "cheap" any more than post 64 Winchesters were. If anything the later Win's were better guns because the parts were made right the first time and didn't need careful fitting to actually work. The stamped steel parts are functionally better than the older ones, but you can't tell a pre64 Winchester owner that. "Handfitted at the factory" = double the price.
S&W is still making limited contact runs of the 3Gens and release unused models to various gun shops. If it's Cabelas its possibly new or new old stock. The gun at the other Cabela's was apparently a 2014 production serial number. Some suggested that it could have been a gun sold off by a police agency which doesn't fit Cabela's buying habit's. NOS police guns tend to show up at other vendors who buy them back selling a contract on new ones.
There ARE agencies in various states that still buy and issue 3Gen guns, but it's a limited situation. S&W has stated they are no longer offering service and support, parts are becoming limited. Used gun prices are going up as collectors find them and the pool diminishes. If that Cabela's drops the price to $599 there will be a happy new owner quickly. Don't be surprised to find it gone shortly.
S&W is still making limited contact runs of the 3Gens and release unused models to various gun shops. If it's Cabelas its possibly new or new old stock. The gun at the other Cabela's was apparently a 2014 production serial number. Some suggested that it could have been a gun sold off by a police agency which doesn't fit Cabela's buying habit's. NOS police guns tend to show up at other vendors who buy them back selling a contract on new ones.
There ARE agencies in various states that still buy and issue 3Gen guns, but it's a limited situation. S&W has stated they are no longer offering service and support, parts are becoming limited. Used gun prices are going up as collectors find them and the pool diminishes. If that Cabela's drops the price to $599 there will be a happy new owner quickly. Don't be surprised to find it gone shortly.
The current ones are nowhere near as well fitted and built as the old ones from the 80s. Trust me on this. S&W now uses "assemblers" who drop parts into a frame and box them up and ship them out rather than "fitters" who made sure that every part fit like it was supposed to. To be fair, S&W are not the only ones guilty of this today. The main reason S&W no longer supports the older models is simply because most of the guys who originally built them are all in retirement homes now. And if you have to compete with manufacturers like Ruger you just can't build them they way they did in the old days and be competitive in today's market. In the early days of USPSA I shot a S&W 745 (basically a 645 converted to SA only). The gun was extremely accurate and dependable but parts and especially magazines were expensive and hard to find. After a couple of years I realized I just couldn't get used to the grip angle and switched to 1911s and never looked back.
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Hangingrock
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The quoted statement is to point out in reality that S&W could not consistently manufacture parts to tolerance and specification thus hand fitting. Some may argue that point but in todays mass manufacturing environment hand fitting is code words we couldn't consistently manufacture cost effective/identical parts to mate and function with other parts in the assembly of the end product.
I also realize you have your specialist producers, that part of their marketing is hand fitting which comes at $$$$$$!Today it's much more about meeting production and sales quotas than it is about building the finest product possible. In the old days S&W and Colt would hand some old guy a box of oversized parts and tell them to fit it up as perfect as humanly possible and they didn't care if it took him all day. And they would spent years training that guy. S&W would spend 5 years training a guy just to use a buffing wheel and they had to make their own wheels. Sadly those days are gone.......
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You got that right. I would have got the info, but would not buy it. Maybe 3/4
Yea, that looks right. I always liked the SW metal framed guns, and find their plastic to be far less than a glock. For 600$, i would be open to it, but 8 was more than I would go. interesting they're still making them though, the plastic addiction is reaching the point where the industry is telling people what they want, instead of listening. That works now, but soon enough, taste will change, and the US firearms industry will be left confused and scared (like the auto industry)
Thanks for the info, and the nostalgia isnt bad either, feel free to take this thread in any direction, its good info everyone. On another note, while waiting to take a look at that, I saw a hipoint C9, and a JHP next to each other for the first time, and WOW that 45 was big! I asked to handle it, and felt like lifting a 5lb barbell (no really, im not kidding, really felt like it). Ive recomended the C9 to a few people, because its a cheap way to find out if handguns are for you or not, but does anyone know what the weight on that 45 model may be? The website says 2.1 lbs, a normal weight, but this was far more than that. I would assume it was at least 48 ounces, and possible more. I tried pointing it up at the ceiling, and my thought was 'this is too heavy to shoot for accuracy, you would need to bench it'. Not badmouthing the company, just suprised at the size/weight.
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lsudave
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I can't find the thread on the S&W forum right now (I didn't save or post to it), but someone had posted about "new" 5926's being listed. Somebody dated the serial # to a 2014 run (or shipment, I think that's how S&W does it). Guns were listed as NIB, not LNIB, and weren't listed in the used area. I do believe it was Cabela's that had them. As I recall, they were $799, dropped to $599 around Christmas. The RCMP still uses these, so S&W still makes for them. I think a few other agencies still do, too.
My understanding is that these must have been an over-run, or held at the S&W "mothership" awhile, before being released via Cabela's into the market. Imagine that they would be a limited-time available, just stock on hand.
Someone commented on my statement of the M&P and Glock polymer guns being "cheap", that's not intended as an insult; as a statement of monetary fact. A polymer striker-fired gun is going to be less expensive than a stainless steel DA/SA hammer-fired gun, just due to materials and machining. You see it across the board- Sig's P320 is cheaper than the P22x series. Cheaper= less expensive.
Another "old" gun available now is the Daewoo DP-51, Lionheart is selling them new for over $700. Only difference I can see from the original is that they're cerakoted, and have some "cool" rubber grips that look like dirt-bike tires. These were steel slide, aluminum frame guns, and not as desirable as the SS S&W's. I would imagine a NIB 59xx could command the same price.
My understanding is that these must have been an over-run, or held at the S&W "mothership" awhile, before being released via Cabela's into the market. Imagine that they would be a limited-time available, just stock on hand.
Someone commented on my statement of the M&P and Glock polymer guns being "cheap", that's not intended as an insult; as a statement of monetary fact. A polymer striker-fired gun is going to be less expensive than a stainless steel DA/SA hammer-fired gun, just due to materials and machining. You see it across the board- Sig's P320 is cheaper than the P22x series. Cheaper= less expensive.
Another "old" gun available now is the Daewoo DP-51, Lionheart is selling them new for over $700. Only difference I can see from the original is that they're cerakoted, and have some "cool" rubber grips that look like dirt-bike tires. These were steel slide, aluminum frame guns, and not as desirable as the SS S&W's. I would imagine a NIB 59xx could command the same price.
lsudave
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Regarding the HiPoint weight, I don't know it off-hand, but I think they're blowback (like most .380's and below). The only way this design can handle a large caliber is to increase the mass of the slide, which is why they have such huge, blocky slides. I'd imagine the .45ACP slide is gigantic. The guns are top-heavy, which makes the weight seem even more than it is.
yea, they're blowback, and i understand the weight, but shooting a 1911 for so long, it feels like picking up a coffee cup now. This Hipoint was so heavy I was shaking trying to keep it on target (some random point on the ceiling). It was gigantic. Funny thing is, I bet it shot really well, from a rest.
as a multiyear owner of a Keltec p11, I dont consider "cheap" to default to low quality. At 260$ new, that Keltec was "cheap" but that thing held up. Glocks are certainly cheap, both in manufacturing, and retail, in terms of value. AR's, mossy 500's and so many others are cheap.
lsudave
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Yep, that's the one I saw. 5946, not 5926. I've read that the DAO guns have a pretty nice trigger, much lighter than the DA on the DA/SA guns.
Boy, did they mess up the description: 2.7" barrel, really?
BUT, looking at the picture: that's a really good deal on that gun. Trijicon night sights dated 2014, factory made with no mag safety, stainless frame and slide. That is a whole lot of gun for $599, never shipped (based on the sights I'd guess these were made in 2014 and then not delivered). FWIW, you can buy this online and have it shipped free to your local Cabela's.
SSN Vet
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I've always been interested in the S&W5926.... not really interested in the DAO models though.
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