S&W's sales down 48.5% compared to last year...

[LOLBELL]

I don't know anything about the firearm industry, but am very familiar with the auto industry. The numbers in the link provided by Solomonson is correct in a very devious way. Toyota did profit $2726. The dealership, sales manager, salesman, the transporter, ect. all made a profit also. The cost to manufacture an automobile is about 31.5% of the end cost at a dealership.

 

[Solomonson]

I don't know anything about the firearm industry, but am very familiar with the auto industry. The numbers in the link provided by Solomonson is correct in a very devious way. Toyota did profit $2726. The dealership, sales manager, salesman, the transporter, ect. all made a profit also. The cost to manufacture an automobile is about 31.5% of the end cost at a dealership.

Nothing "devious" about what I posted. You're wrong to say that. We were discussing how much a manufacturer makes on the sales of firearms in addition to the profits made by distributors, retailers, UPS/Fedex, etc.

 

[Solomonson]

...The cost to manufacture an automobile is about 31.5% of the end cost at a dealership.

I'm not sure what you mean by "31.5% of the end cost at a dealership"? Are you talking about the price paid by the dealer or by the final customer?

In any event the average gross margin runs about 15% for automakers Their net margins, somewhere around 5% Glock does a whole lot better than that. https://csimarket.com/Industry/industry_Profitability_Ratios.php?ind=404

 

[Solomonson]

There are some pretty gross examples of gun companies selling (or not selling) for "whatever the market will bear." Consider the Ruger AR556 which Bud's sells for $449.00 or the S&W M&P 15 Sport II for $499.00 While I think their prices will continue to drop a bit, these prices are certainly a huge improvement over the $1,500++ some were charging for similar firearms during the Obama go-go years.

As prices dropped, people who has paid $1,500+ were convinced that $449.00 ARs were "junk." That's absolutely not true.

Now consider the Tavor X95 that Bud's sells (or doesn't sell) for $1,799.00 Is that premium price (compared to the above ARs) based in its cost to build/ship? Nope! There may be a bit more amortized R&D/engineering design and tooling costs/unit for the X95, but certainly not enough to justify the $1,799 price. The X95 is a novelty and a limited number of people are willing to vastly overpay for it.

I hope Ruger or S&W builds a bullpup and sells it for $599.00 or less one day. For those that claim such a bullpup would be "junk", please see above.

 

[748]

What changed?
The firearms industry lost their #1 and #2 sales man and sales woman.

 

[Solomonson]

What changed?
The firearms industry lost their #1 and #2 sales man and sales woman.

That, plus a HUGE number of firearms were sold that not only satisfied current wants, but also future ones.

 

[deadin]

I think snob appeal comes into the equation. "I paid $1799 that while you only paid $500. My gun must be better than yours."

Really??? That much better???

 

[Balrog]

This change is almost certainly produced in large part due to politics. In 2016, it looked like Hillary would be president, and everyone knew if that happened, we would likely see an attempt to get another gun ban passed. So I would expect sales to be up. Now that we have a pro-gun president in office, people do not feel the need to go out and buy as many guns.

 

[JohnBiltz]

According to this article 2017 is going to be the second or third best year for gun sales and everyone knew last year was an anomaly.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ck-one-best-years-gun-sales-past-two-decades/

 

[Solomonson]

I think snob appeal comes into the equation. "I paid $1799 that while you only paid $500. My gun must be better than yours."

Really??? That much better???

I think $1799 was a great deal more justifiable when all ARs were $1200+ Now that you can get an excellent AR by a name-brand maker for $449.00, the $1799 just seems...ridiculous.

 

[Deanimator]

Not comparable. Plywood and sandbags carry neither the legal luggage, the restrictions nor the stigma that gun manufacturing does.

Irrelevant.

People buy guns, sandbags and plywood in a panic when there is:

1. A perceived threat.
2. A perceived danger that the item will become unavailable.

People rush to buy hurricane supplies when there's a hurricane.
People rush to buy a gun when there's anti-gun hysteria reified at the national level.

When those conditions abate, panic buying abates.

 

[Hokkmike]

And yet they had the top selling 9mm on the market! Go figure....

I wonder which gun mfg has the best sale figures?

 

[Cooter Boolit]

Irrelevant.

People buy guns, sandbags and plywood in a panic when there is:

1. A perceived threat.
2. A perceived danger that the item will become unavailable.

People rush to buy hurricane supplies when there's a hurricane.
People rush to buy a gun when there's anti-gun hysteria reified at the national level.

When those conditions abate, panic buying abates.

SPOT ON CORRECT....!!!!!!!!! FEAR + PANIC = PROFIT for the sellers

 

[Elkins45]

There are some pretty gross examples of gun companies selling (or not selling) for "whatever the market will bear." Consider the Ruger AR556 which Bud's sells for $449.00 or the S&W M&P 15 Sport II for $499.00 While I think their prices will continue to drop a bit, these prices are certainly a huge improvement over the $1,500++ some were charging for similar firearms during the Obama go-go years.

As prices dropped, people who has paid $1,500+ were convinced that $449.00 ARs were "junk." That's absolutely not true.

Now consider the Tavor X95 that Bud's sells (or doesn't sell) for $1,799.00 Is that premium price (compared to the above ARs) based in its cost to build/ship? Nope! There may be a bit more amortized R&D/engineering design and tooling costs/unit for the X95, but certainly not enough to justify the $1,799 price. The X95 is a novelty and a limited number of people are willing to vastly overpay for it.

I hope Ruger or S&W builds a bullpup and sells it for $599.00 or less one day. For those that claim such a bullpup would be "junk", please see above.

This makes me think about the parallel with the "fine" watch industry. Watch enthusiasts call <$1000 watches "affordables" and routinely engage in the fiction that a $5K mechanical Rolex is inherently a better timepiece than a $200 Seiko. The whole fine watch industry is based on the idea that the expense of a watch IS its value. See the definition of Vebelen goods. I read a story last year about Swiss watch brands buying back unsold stock to destroy rather than see it be sold at steep discounts. Brand value protection probably counts much less with guns, but there probably is some of this thinking in play.

With guns it is much more of a supply and demand thing until you get up into the Holland's and similar brand range. Still, there has to be a per gun figure at which it just doesn't make to keep the doors open...and there has to be some "padding" to see you through the lean times.

How many people work for S&W?

 

[v35]

How many people work for S&W?

"As of May 31, 2017, we had 2,204 employees, including 24 part-time employees. Of these employees, 1,686 were engaged in manufacturing, 119 in sales and marketing, 49 in finance and accounting, 64 in research and development, 40 in information services, and 246 in various executive or other administrative functions."

- 2017 form 10-K

* A figure that includes the entire holding company, which includes their Outdoor Products & Accessories business.

 

[hdwhit]

S&W is a publicly traded company. If you want information about their costs and margins, just go to their website and download their last annual report.

 

[Cooter Boolit]

"As of May 31, 2017, we had 2,204 employees, including 24 part-time employees. Of these employees, 1,686 were engaged in manufacturing, 119 in sales and marketing, 49 in finance and accounting, 64 in research and development, 40 in information services, and 246 in various executive or other administrative functions."

- 2017 form 10-K

* A figure that includes the entire holding company, which includes their Outdoor Products & Accessories business.

You work for S&W...????

 

[Moparnut]

MSRP is a suggested price. Most lgs come in below that price, most of the time. During the panic, as far as I understand it, the distributors were pushing the prices up, by a couple of percentage points or more. This caused most retailers to push up prices as well. Some manufacturers did push prices on new products. I believe most distributors and manufacturers have contracts. Distributor pays x% over cost. The highest gouging was at the retail level and gun shows were even worse. Funny thing is I have heard for years that a Glock only costs about $65 to produce. They sell at roughly $499, but I never hear anyone complain about the price of a Glock.

 

[deadin]

I read a story last year about Swiss watch brands buying back unsold stock to destroy rather than see it be sold at steep discounts.

I understand that this is pretty much the same with diamonds. (Price control by the big companies).

As for MSRP, I've always figured this was a sales aid the the manufacturer created as a help for the retailers to show a prospective customer what a deal they were getting.