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Lovesbeer99

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I have a Cimarron Model P I bought because I wanted to dabble in the SAA world and I love the gun. Now I want another but I have some questions.

It seams that the most popular models are the Colts and the Ruger Vaquaros followed by Colt copies. My first question is why are the Vaquaros so popular? Are they smoother, more accurate, cheaper, what's the deal. My second question is why are the Colts, even the new ones so expensive.

The one I have is a standard Model P in .357 (my favorite caliber)

Thanks in advance
 
What are you looking for? I just bought a brand new Uberti Cattleman Hombre in .45 Colt for $250. They come in .357 also.

It seems like a pretty well put together clone.
 
Rugers have a large following because they are built like a tank with all coil springs and you simply can't break them or wear them out.
They also have a transfer bar ignition system that makes it possible to safely carry them fully loaded with six rounds.

Colts and copies must be carried with 5 rounds and an empty chamber under the hammer.

That you can buy two Rugers for the price of a Colt doesn't hurt either.

But, once you own a real Colt SAA, you will know why people buy still them.
They are the real deal everyone else is looking to imitate.

rc
 
Howdy

Vaqueros are so popular because,

1. They can be safely carried fully loaded with a live round under the hammer and will not go off if the hammer is struck.

2. There are no flat, leaf type springs in any Ruger revolvers, only coil springs. Coil springs are not as prone to breakage as flat, leaf type springs are.

3. The cross section of some of the interior parts is a bit heftier than a Colt, so the interior parts almost never break.

4. Through clever design, Ruger drove much of the cost out of manufacturing their revolvers, so you get a more reliable, sturdier, and more robust revolver for the same money, or even less money than most Italian revolvers that retain the old Colt style lockwork.

Colts are expensive for a variety of reasons. The design inside the Colt is almost 140 years old, some parts of the design go back further than that. Although Colts are made on modern CNC equipment today, the design of the parts is very old fashioned. It just takes a lot more machine time to make some Colt parts than it does to make most Ruger parts. Part cost is based on the amount of time it actually takes to make the part. That's what I was talking about when I said that Bill Ruger drove much of the cost out of his guns by clever design. That's also why when you take a Ruger apart, the parts look very different than Colt parts (or Uberti parts).

The other thing is Colt actually does use top notch materials in their guns. The metals used by Uberti tend to be a bit soft and can wear over time.
 
You might also want to look at USFA as an option in between the Vaquero and the Colt.

The Cimarron Evil Roy model is very nicely finished. That is the Cadillac of the Cimarron line, and has the most hand fitting/massaging.
 
I have a Cimarron Model P I bought because I wanted to dabble in the SAA world and I love the gun. Now I want another but I have some questions.

It seams that the most popular models are the Colts and the Ruger Vaquaros followed by Colt copies. My first question is why are the Vaquaros so popular? Are they smoother, more accurate, cheaper, what's the deal. My second question is why are the Colts, even the new ones so expensive.

The one I have is a standard Model P in .357 (my favorite caliber)

Thanks in advance
The Rugers will stand up to the excessive use that's done by most cowboy Action shooters. The design lends itself to standing up to the excessive use.

Colts are well, Colts. They were the first, they were the best and they are what everyone thinks of when they think of a SAA. Some of the price is workmanship and the other is the name. Personally, if I were to spend that much money on a SAA it would be a UAFA revolver, not a Colt.
 
it depends on what you want to spend, I will either be getting a matching set of 357 or 45 heritage big bores, or 44 magnum bounty hunters.
 
My problem with Vaqueros is that most of them are in Stainless and I don't like stainless. The blue ones are non flattering either. I'd like a gun with a case hardened frame or a fully nickle plated gun. This is the same reason I won't buy a new S&W, they are all stainless and brushed stainless at that.

I know some of the new retro ones are in blue but that's really recent when you put it in perspective.
 
Lovesbeer, any of the Rugers or clones can be tuned to have lovely triggers. But in stock form right from the box in my experience all of them are OK but not lovely. With some burnishing of the trigger and hammer hooks they smoothen out but it would take a full on trigger job to mimic the "glass break" like trigger of any of the classic DA S&W revolvers when used in single action. The primary goal being to reduce the slight but noticable creep on the old orignal style Colt clones.
 
My problem with Vaqueros is that most of them are in Stainless and I don't like stainless. The blue ones are non flattering either. I'd like a gun with a case hardened frame or a fully nickle plated gun. This is the same reason I won't buy a new S&W, they are all stainless and brushed stainless at that.

I know some of the new retro ones are in blue but that's really recent when you put it in perspective.

Howdy Again

I too prefer blued guns over stainless. There are several versions of the Vaquero that are available blued.

Vaqueros never had true case hardening. Case Hardening is for relatively soft iron or steel and produces a hardened surface while retaining the ductility of the underlying metal. The colors that result from the Case Hardening process are attractive, but they are only a byproduct of the process, they do not impart any superior qualities to the metal.

Ruger uses Investment Castings for their frames. The frames are heat treated all the way through for consistent hardness. Case Hardening the frames would be counterproductive. For quite a few years blued Vaqueros had chemically created colors on the frame to simulate the appearance of true Case Hardening. However there were constant complaints of rust with this method. Finally Ruger decided to completely do away with the color treatment and just blue the frames as they always did with their Blackhawks.

True Case Hardening is an expensive process. It takes time. Parts are placed in a furnace with carbon bearing substances like bone and leather. Then they are heated to a specific temperature and then taken out and quenched in water. The process infuses extra carbon into the surface of the steel, producing a harder surface. The colors come along as a byproduct.

Uberti does not have true Case Hardening on their parts either. If they did, the guns would be more expensive than they are. Uberti uses a chemical bath to bring out colors resembling Case Hardening, but it is not done in a furnace.

Colts frames are Case Hardened the old fashioned way. So are the higher priced USFA guns. If you want real Case Hardening, you will have to pay more.

When Ruger first experimented with Stainless Vaqueros, the prototypes had a matte finish. However Ruger quickly realized that by putting a high polish on the Stainless it would look almost exactly like Nickel Plate that was often applied to guns in the 19th Century. The methods of bluing in the 19th Century were different than today, and 19th Century bluing was not as robust as modern blue. It wore off more easily and then did not provide as much rust protection. So Nickel Plating was an alternative to help prevent rust. In fact, Nickel Plating was more common than bluing with many of the pocket pistol models made by S&W. Ruger decided that a high polish finish on their Stainless Vaqueros would make them look just like the old Nickel Plated guns. Nickel Plating does have a slight yellowish tinge to it, but it is difficult to tell a polished Stainless Ruger from a Nickel Plated gun unless one compares them next to each other. For all intents and purposes, Stainless Rugers look just like a Nickel Plated gun.

The other advantage of Stainless over Nickel Plating is it will never chip or peel.
 
Not weighing in as an expert, just jumped into the Single Action pool myself. I really discovered that they are fun and enjoyable.

I think you'll really enjoy any one of them.

For me I wanted to start with a focus on the purely traditional design. I have a Ruger .44 Magnum but didn't even consider it a single action.

I just bought a Uberti as the initial price to get into the single actions was important and I want a gun that is traditional in design. I love it.

The Ruger Vaqueros look very traditional, so that or the Blackhawk convertible might be in my future.

To me the things that turn me off about single actions are the ones that don't index correctly. I believe the cylinder should stop flush with the loading gate. I also wrestle with the idea of buying a gun without adjustable sights. I wasn't concerned about safety transfer bars and such. I carry 5 rounds in all my single actions.

I'm sure the metallurgy discussions are important, but if you are like me I would figure out which ones work they way you want them too.
 
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I have a Cimarron Model P I bought because I wanted to dabble in the SAA world and I love the gun. Now I want another but I have some questions.

It seams that the most popular models are the Colts and the Ruger Vaquaros followed by Colt copies. My first question is why are the Vaquaros so popular? Are they smoother, more accurate, cheaper, what's the deal. My second question is why are the Colts, even the new ones so expensive.

The one I have is a standard Model P in .357 (my favorite caliber)

Thanks in advance
My experience with Ruger Vaquero's (I have 4 of them, all OMV's) has been that they are built like tanks, and that Ruger customer service is top notch. They also use the transfer bar system, so that 6th round can be safely loaded. The Colt's are the Harley Davidson of the pistol world, hence their hefty price tag, and the Colt clones and sub-standard on quality as a general rule.

LD
 
If you can afford a Colt, that is the way to go IMO. 357s in Colts can be a bit cheaper than the other "traditional" calibers. 357 just isn't as popular with Colt fans.

Best of luck to you.
 
Can gun with improper indexing be corrected? So if chamber does not line up with the loading gate properly can that be fixed? How much to fix it?
 
that's a good question. It might be as involved as having a gunsmith install a new cylinder.
 
I shoot SASS once in a while this last decade. I use a Cimmarron 7.5" Hartford Model in 32-20 as my strong side and a 4 3/4" Cimmarron P in the cross draw , both in 32-20. The 32-20 is a great choice for SASS if you reload it ! Most of the winning big time SASS guys I see shoot .357 Ruger 50th Anniversary type New"old " model Blackhawks these days as they adj sight rule has changed. They shoot alot (with .38s of course) and the Black Hawks hold up like no Colt SAA can with out a lot of maintainence IMHO and their experience!
 
Can gun with improper indexing be corrected? So if chamber does not line up with the loading gate properly can that be fixed? How much to fix it?

Howdy

It depends on what gun you are talking about. If you are talking about a Ruger, that is part of the design. If you are talking about something other than a Ruger, when the hammer goes to half cock, the the cylinder should index with a chamber lined up with the loading gate. If a chamber does not line up with the loading gate with a colt style revolver at half cock, something is wrong.

With a New Model Ruger, there is no half cock position on the hammer, so there is no hammer position that indexes the chambers to the loading gate.

Rather than type it all over again, go to this thread and scroll down about 3/4 of the way. I explain the whole thing behind why a chamber does not line up with the loading gate on a New Model Ruger single action revolver.


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=640428


You can buy an after market hammer with a half cock notch on it that will line up the chambers with the loading gate. It is a simple drop in part, but it is not cheap. I have installed them in three of my Vaqueros.

http://powercustom.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=136

The New Vaquero has a small spring plunger installed in the frame that lines up the chambers with the loading gate. Other than those options it is just part of the design of all Ruger single action revolvers since the mid 1970s.
 
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