Saiga`12: Range Report....

Status
Not open for further replies.
"50 rounds???? Wyatt earp used a hammer double at the OK Corral. The average firefight lasts 3 to 5 seconds, the SLA shootout in L.A. and the North Hollywood bank robbery notwithstanding. Any of the shotguns/magazine types mentioned above are superior at close range to any pistol or sub-machinegun. At the end of the above mentioned 3-5 seconds, we determine the second place winner of the gunfight by determining who is no longer breathing. How many times can you reload your saiga or top off your pumpgun in that time?"

Hrm, 3-5 seconds? Man I can't reload but maybe Once in that time. Of Course, it takes 4 seconds to go through a 20rd drum so that only leaves 1 second to do a switch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0qlQJ_vn_0

Course, I'd like to see a Tube-Fed shotgun go through 20 in 4 seconds. :evil:
 
SN, Hollywood Marine knows shotguns. Trust me on that.

Gunfighter, I'm accepting no more shotguns for testing at this time. Time constraints, sorry.

Had I my OWN Saiga to mod up, I'd....

Go ahead and have the TG moved and PG added just to get the trigger cleaned up.I'd then find the best slug and buyamessathat.

Better sights would follow.

Dunno if I'd go for bigger mags. For my missions, HD and CD, 5 rounds with a fast reload of 5 more should cover the bases. We're not talking about The Battle for Hue here. I'd like to keep the OA height minimal.

Oh yes, no bayonet, no lazers, no belt feed, no skull and crossbones decals.

Plenty of exercise, though.

Shooting this thing is major fun.
 
Wyatt earp used a hammer double at the OK Corral

It isn't enough y'all have to put up with a retired librarian here. No, you gotta get stuck with a retired librarian with an undergraduate degree in history as well :D.

Actually it was Doc Holliday who had the shotgun at the gunfight in front of Fly's Rooming House near the OK Corral (which lasted about 25 seconds, with 32 shots fired). It was handed to him by Virgil Earp, in return for his cane. It might have been because Doc was wearing a long enough coat to conceal the shotgun as they walked down the street.

Wyatt Earp was known to favor double barrel shotguns, true. He used to stash several of them around his office and his living quarters when he was marshall at Dodge City and later at Tombstone. He never went out without one if trouble was in the wind- good evidence to some historians that the Earps were not looking for trouble on the day of the famous gunfight.

Later, after the OK Corral fight, Earp is reported to have used a borrowed (from Fred Dodge, Wells Fargo special agent) Stevens 10 gauge double barrel 'messenger gun' to kill 'Curly Bill' Brocius in a gunfight at Iron Springs. Interestingly, the same shotgun was reportedly used a few years later (August 1896) by veteran lawman Heck Thomas to kill Bill Doolin, a famous Oklahoma and Arkansas outlaw.

Dial-a-lecture over... :D

lpl
 
Having roamed around Iron Springs (a howling Az wilderness) I chose my 870 with a light to sleep with! If the Old Timers had more firepower than a double they would have used it! If I ever have a SBS it will be a Saiga for sure. Till then I'll be 870ing.
 
I have no doubt that Hollywood Marine knows shotguns, and I agree that having 5 or 10 x 10rd mags loaded up and ready to go for a 3-5 second fire fight is a bit, absurd. I also have no problem with the statement that most firefights last 3-5 seconds. But that still doesn't detract from the fact that if 3-5 seconds of fighting means I can go through 20rds and not have to reload or top-off, I have an advantage over an 8+1 who has to reload to max capacity at least once to keep up. Even the fastest loader using loose shells, cannot load up 20rds in an HD Shotgun and fire them all within that 3-5 seconds.

I was basically trying to make the point that with a very large capacity (20rds) already in the gun, the need to reload during a 3-5 second firefight was non-existent as the chances of using all 20 were slim in that period of time.

The advantages that Saigas have over SxS or O/U or Tube-Fed guns is capacity in compact forms. 19" Barrel, up to 20rd Capacity. What's the most you can get in a tube (2 3/4" shells) with a 20" barrel? (sorry, i don't own a pump/SA Tube gun). If all you're shooting is Slugs or Buck or Birdshot, and you never have to change in the middle of a fire string, and your string consists of MORE than 10 rounds, the Saiga has a real advantage. Under 10 and / or with ammo type changes, the SA/Pump tubes are equal or better equipped.
 
Just thought I would post a pic of one of the latest configurations from the factory, available only in Europe. Sorry for the size.

Saiga0401.jpg
 
The best thing you can do for the trigger is convert the gun to pistol grip with made in USA parts.
 
Red Cedar- That is one sweet Saiga. That wood furniture looks great. Wish I could have that here in the states:mad:
 
I was basically trying to make the point that with a very large capacity (20rds) already in the gun,
Click to expand...

Would you bet your life that the 20 rds would feed without a jam?
 
The MD Arms 20 round drums are proving to be very reliable but I have no personal experience with them. Anyways it's an AK if you get a jam just rack back the bolt to clear it out and you are in business. Personally I have 4, 5 round mags loaded with 00 buck and I can change a mag very fast even on a closed bolt way faster than I can load a tube magazine with 5 but I do lose the top off feature of a tube.

The 5 and 10 round magazines I would bet my life on, yes they are very reliable as far as I can tell. Why do people get so defensive when you talk auto or mag fed shotguns vs. pump? There are benefits to each design. The Saiga shotguns are a great extension of the AK design and I am both glad and surprised they have not been relegated to the DD graveyard like the other high cap magazine fed shotguns that came before them. Enjoy them while you can because when law enforcement and politicians start to see these monster custom 12 ga shotguns with 8" barrels, 20 round drums and sharpy pokey muzzle breaks at the end I'm sure they will be banned eventually as having no sporting purpose.
 
Enjoy them while you can because when law enforcement and politicians start to see these monster custom 12 ga shotguns with 8" barrels, 20 round drums and sharpy pokey muzzle breaks at the end I'm sure they will be banned eventually as having no sporting purpose.
Click to expand...

lets hope that doesnt happen, but it easily could.


That is one sweet Saiga. That wood furniture looks great. Wish I could have that here in the states
Click to expand...

I like the way that looks. Its my favorite.
 
Last edited:
Nice varient in that pic. However, the mag illustrates my point about mag length. No low prone with that one, and maybe not with the drum.
 
Nice varient in that pic. However, the mag illustrates my point about mag length. No low prone with that one, and maybe not with the drum.
Click to expand...

Yeah that is why the drums are nice for over 8 rounds and hopefully we will see double stack mags in the near future.
 
Would you bet your life that the 20 rds would feed without a jam?
Click to expand...

You're Damn Right I would.

All the time, Every time.

Regal, if you're in Florida, you're welcome to shoot it. Bring whatever ammo you want. We'll have a blast.
 
its my understanding that a 5 rd mag can be slightly modified to firt the mag well. Low prone,? I think it would be hard regardless, because of the parts protruding from the bottom ( pistol grip, magazine ) I also am almost positive the drum cannot be used with the magwell as we see it in the picture. The drum lacks the length of its neck to be used.
 
Any sized mag will fit in the mag well you just need to grind off the tab on the side of the mag where it would lock into the receiver opposite side of the mag release. You can get a mag well installed on your saiga 12.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
  • Locked
Range Report: Saiga-12 Conversion
Replies
14
Views
1K
Tomac
T
C
  • Locked
Saiga 12 review
Replies
6
Views
4K
Benjamin
B
M
  • Locked
Saiga 12 + Surefire Mag Feed Problem
Replies
5
Views
649
maskedman504
M
C
  • Locked
Gabe Suárez - saiga 12
Replies
8
Views
1K
Chilean
C
D
  • Locked
Goodbye, Saiga....
Replies
21
Views
2K
Girodin
G
Back
Top