Saiga .223 AR magwell adapter
- Thread starter JohnnyK
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I was one of the people that ordered from MSA, never got my magewell, went through weeks of head aches trying to either get an adapter or money back. I was able to get in contact with other people who had purchased and confirm that the owner wasn't telling everyone the same story about what was going on. He also was posting different info online on message boards than what he was sending out to customers via email. I only got money back by filing a fraud complaint.
He has gone through this kind of thing on multiple occasions. If you are looking to order from MSA I would be very wary just from that end. You can find threads online of him calling customers pricks etc when they complained he missed his promised shipping dates. He reminds me of Ciener and we know how that finally ended.
Further from a product side of it, the install requires milling a pretty significant amount of the front trunion away. I've actually wondered since if I didn't actually dodge a bullet by having him try to rip me off.
I like my saiga .223 but for the money of a magwell and to have it installed (unless you have a mill. I wouldn't risk playing dremel jockey with my front trunion. People have ruined their rifles doing that trying install an adapter) one can get a number of .223 mags or just have money to go towards a good AR.
If I were going to do this I would look to the renegade buck adapter and avoid MSA and the drama and headaches that follow that guy.
He has gone through this kind of thing on multiple occasions. If you are looking to order from MSA I would be very wary just from that end. You can find threads online of him calling customers pricks etc when they complained he missed his promised shipping dates. He reminds me of Ciener and we know how that finally ended.
Further from a product side of it, the install requires milling a pretty significant amount of the front trunion away. I've actually wondered since if I didn't actually dodge a bullet by having him try to rip me off.
I like my saiga .223 but for the money of a magwell and to have it installed (unless you have a mill. I wouldn't risk playing dremel jockey with my front trunion. People have ruined their rifles doing that trying install an adapter) one can get a number of .223 mags or just have money to go towards a good AR.
If I were going to do this I would look to the renegade buck adapter and avoid MSA and the drama and headaches that follow that guy.
Yes mine is Renegade Buck's adapter. Even at that it is required that some of the trunion be removed to facilitate the AR magazine. The AR magazine needs to ride up into the well a little higher to feed properly. I did not find it to be a very difficult job but yes care should/must be taken when doing this. From my perspective is was great as I had plenty of AR mags already so no need to buy any more mags.
The Sarge
Member
I have 4 of RenegadeBucks adapters on my Saiga 5.56mm's.
Just snap it in. Put a AR mag in and you can see what metal needs trimmed to fit. That's it.
I will tell you I cannot get the PMags to work....they fall out. All I use is the USGI metal mags and they are flawless. $76 bucks shipped .....great deal from a great guy.
2 on the left in this picture are Saiga 5.56mm with Bucks adapters.
Just snap it in. Put a AR mag in and you can see what metal needs trimmed to fit. That's it.
I will tell you I cannot get the PMags to work....they fall out. All I use is the USGI metal mags and they are flawless. $76 bucks shipped .....great deal from a great guy.
2 on the left in this picture are Saiga 5.56mm with Bucks adapters.
Yes, some metal needs to be removed from the trunion, although it is not from the structural part. It is the pieces that stop the magazines from coming up into the action too far. I did mine with a simple dremel tool. Just took my time. There is no modification to the mags required, which makes it real nice. The thing I liked about this adapter is it just snaps on like an AK magazine and is not a permanent part of the rifle. I use the Saiga mag on occasion just to show people it still works. The 30 rd AR's are easier to load (speed loader) and I have lots of them. I just use some of the easy and cheap to get metal AR mags and all has been great.
I took my time and spent a little less than an hour on it. This included getting it cleaned back up and painted out, ready for reassembly. I could probably do it in half an hour pretty easy now that I know what the end result should look like. Take your time and you will only have to do it once.
I used a combination of a fine grinding stone and a cut off wheel. The cut off wheel gave me a flatter surface than the grinding wheel did. The flatter surface was more of an aesthetics thing than function.
As far as glocks go, I find them to be crude in the way they feel and all the hype is just plain annoying. There are lots of fine pistols out there that I personally find more comfortable to shoot. Yes they are reliable just not buying the whole "you have to get used to them" concept. For me if it is not natural, keep looking. In a panic situation you are going to do what comes naturally not what you have learned at the range, unless you have spent countless hours forcing it to be a form of natural. For some I realize they are a good fit and they are the ones who should be shooting them. They are just not a one size fits all like most would have you believe.
anyway that should ruffle a few feathers. People don't realize I am not anti glock just don't believe they are do all - end all kind of pistol.
I used a combination of a fine grinding stone and a cut off wheel. The cut off wheel gave me a flatter surface than the grinding wheel did. The flatter surface was more of an aesthetics thing than function.
As far as glocks go, I find them to be crude in the way they feel and all the hype is just plain annoying. There are lots of fine pistols out there that I personally find more comfortable to shoot. Yes they are reliable just not buying the whole "you have to get used to them" concept. For me if it is not natural, keep looking. In a panic situation you are going to do what comes naturally not what you have learned at the range, unless you have spent countless hours forcing it to be a form of natural. For some I realize they are a good fit and they are the ones who should be shooting them. They are just not a one size fits all like most would have you believe.
anyway that should ruffle a few feathers. People don't realize I am not anti glock just don't believe they are do all - end all kind of pistol.
I got used to shooting my G23 instantly... I'm not sure who would need that much time to get used to any handgun... I think Glocks are the best handgun for ME... and everyone else... I love the conversion Barrell where I can shoot 9mm in my 40 cal instead of getting a seperate 9mm as the frame for G23 and G19 are exactly the same... shooting 9mm in my Glock Rocks and then converting it back to 40 for self defense rocks even more...
I've heard others mention issues with Pmags. Too bad, that is a deal breaker for me. USGI mags are so much less robust, durable and reliable than AK mags that it seems like a giant step backwards to go to using them IMHO. USGI mags might work fine for leisurely square range shooting. They don't hold up like AK mags to do lots of reloading and malfunction drills and being knocked around and used hard.
Can you tell what the exact issue with Pmags is?
The Sarge
Member
The PMags (the new ones) have a very slight change in the divit that the mag spring lip fits in. Just not enough of it. I dont feel to bad as my buddies Colt AR15 spits them out also. I did not say only the USGI mags work but that is all I use. I have used many others with no issue....just the new PMags have a issue.
The Sarge
Member
Yeah I use those sometimes also. That is the beauty of the adapter. You can use many different types of magazines with it or without it.
wally
Member
Yup, I doubt I'd have ordered my MSA adaptor if I fully knew just how much had to be removed. No issues, so overall I'm happy with it, but it is a bit magazine sensitive Pmags (older ones) and GI have all worked 100% Thermold ejects the next to last round on the ground along with the empty.
I think the issue is moot now, as I've found the Tapco Galil mags function great in my other converted Saiga .223 that I had been using the slightly modified Orlites. The near disappearance of Galil mags at the time is why I got the MSA adaptor.
The Bulgarian circle 10 mags are very good, but also require some milling on the receiver to fit.
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