Saiga vs. traditional mag tube tactical shotgun

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sernv99

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I am thinking to get me a Saiga 12 gauge, probably go all out and buy one that is already converted e.g. Tromix or some other maker. Seems from past threads, mags can be costly and if a ban goes through, I would have to buy at least a good 10 mags to be sure if a few broke here and there, I would still have a few left to play with.

Is the price of magazines for Saiga the biggest drawback?

also how is this gun "choked"? What's the tightest pattern you can get from this gun, IC/M??
 
I suggest you check out Tromix website and see if you really want one. Just know that he is not taking orders until 2011 as he is that backordered with everyone who wants a Tromix conversion. It is still a great place to look at the potential a Saiga-12 has to offer.

www.tromix.com

It's a personal decision. But I can with much certainty tell you that Saigas will become very expensive very soon. And Saiga shotguns have one of the highest probabilities of being banned from import. The street sweeper is nothing compared to a Saiga-12 and it is an AOW.

:)
 
A Saiga at least can be legitimately used for hunting. That alone is going to make it a lot harder to reclassify or ban. What got the street sweeper and similar designs in trouble as that it was impossible to refit it with a hunting-legal magazine. It was a gun designed to kill people in massive numbers. That's all it was designed to do, and that's all it was good for. The Saiga can be set up in various ways. Don't be surprised, however, if the ATF places restrictions on magazine-fed shotguns barring magazines over a certain capacity. The ATF has a lot of "as-assembled" laws, and barring assembly of a shotgun with a magazine over a certain capacity seems likely.
 
Don't buy Pro Mag. Buy Surefire or AGP, or Russian factory. The Pro Mags will turn your perfectly reliable Saiga into a jam-o-matic.

Saigastock.com has Saiga-12 mags in stock, including a 2-round hunting mag (2 + 1).
 
You'd think in Kaliforniastan that only commie guns would be legal and everything else of the "West" be banned. Oh well, I forgot, only the politburo in Sacramento and the rabid groups of thugs who rule the streets have the right to such luxuries in that country.

Back to the subject, I have put an order for some AGP 10 round Saiga-12 gauge mags. I tried calling Mississippi Arms and leaving messages but they never answer or return calls. What way can I get the 12 rounders from SureFire? I am sketchy though on going on waiting lists, for fear I will be waiting until the ban.
 
I just ordered from Mississippi arms on the 31st and got down for 4 of the 120 they had for presale. if you go online you will get the mags and your card will be charged at that time. the mags are shipping this week coming up so don't fret about the card being charged. they are a good company and worth the time to get the mags. if you call them on the phone, your card will not be charged until they are shipped. RG
 
Well, I would like to just get someone on the phone so I know they are a real company. If I order from them I will have to cancel my order with AGP and I am a bit nervous about doing that. I like to hear from someone at the store how long I have to wait to get the mags. If I order the 12 rounders today, how long will I have to wait to get my mags? I worry I won't get them before inauguration time. Can I order the mags directly from SureFIre?
 
I guess I was late in getting on the Saiga bandwagon. I'm not going to be waiting until 2011 for this gun and I think 2011 is bunch of b.s. It takes 2 years to fill orders? Does he have a full warehouse of Saigas that he can last 2 years without taking new orders?
 
Sernv99-

Tony is basically a one-man show. He's possibly the Hamilton Bowen of Saiga 12 conversions. I have 2 223 Saiga conversions he did for me. Well worth the price and the wait.

There are other places out there doing conversions, i.e.- www.fbmginc.com Turn around time is a lot less(more like a couple months).

In fact I have them doing conversions and 3 color duracoat camo on 2 s-12s and a 308 of mine as we speak. I'll be going up this afternoon to see how they're coming along.
 
I see, I guess that's understandable. From his website, I was under the impression that he had this as a full time operation.
 
A Saiga at least can be legitimately used for hunting. That alone is going to make it a lot harder to reclassify or ban. What got the street sweeper and similar designs in trouble as that it was impossible to refit it with a hunting-legal magazine. It was a gun designed to kill people in massive numbers. That's all it was designed to do, and that's all it was good for. The Saiga can be set up in various ways. Don't be surprised, however, if the ATF places restrictions on magazine-fed shotguns barring magazines over a certain capacity. The ATF has a lot of "as-assembled" laws, and barring assembly of a shotgun with a magazine over a certain capacity seems likely.
Click to expand...

Though I agree with the hunting part Mike. I will tell you that My 11" Tromix Saiga shorty (with detachable 20-round drum magazine) has 8 more rounds than the Streetsweeper, is 3" shorter, cycles 2x faster (approximately .4 seconds per round), and can be reloaded in <5 seconds.... whereas the Streetsweeper takes a bit to break apart, dump shells, and load them back individually in the cylinder slots. And might I add Saigas are much more fun to shoot because the piston takes most of the recoil out of the gun making even an 8” barrel with full power loads easy to shoot by anyone.

tromixwindow20rounddrumxe3.jpg


And FWIW: I doubt the liberals and/or the ATF care about what is considered “hunting related” or “competition related” when they are considering an AWB. As one senior Senator and sponsor of the AWB put it in 1994 after it passed, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America turn them all in, I would have done it." - Sen Feinstein, CA (and she is still there and doing everything she can to pass another one).

Don’t kid yourselves folks. It’s pretty much a sure bet. .Gov is very interested in what firearms law-abiding citizens have in their hands. And the Senate knows that criminals don't care what laws are passed and if the weapon they are using is "illegal" or "against the law" as they are commiting a crime anyway, which what makes them a criminal. The real scary part is that the Government is seemingly trying to make criminals out of anyone that owns a gun. It is about control pure and simple. If you want a Saiga-12 get it or regret it later should you change your mind.

Be safe

:)
 
Call Will at Red Jacket Firearms. Top rate and comes with a serious warranty. Mine should be ready in another month.
 
sernv99,

You can't really substitute hardware for software. If you have the knowledge, skills and abilities to put ANY shotgun to capable use, then most any shotgun will do. If you lack those KSAs, then it won't really matter very much what gun is in your hands.

In other words, develop your KSAs FIRST- then worry about which tool you use. The investment in yourself will always turn out to be much more valuable in the long run than the investment in one piece of hardware or another.

Of course, just buying hardware is much easier, and more importantly is no threat to the ego- which is why so many people are more willing to go that route IMNSHO. Putting oneself in the hands of a professional instructor, and being asked to perform various drills in front of a group of fellow shooters, means the risk looking foolish... or worse. That's what I mean by a threat to the ego. One professional trainer recently put it: "Your gear must support your ability... ." ( http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/6315 or http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1769.0 ) While I don't agree with a lot of the other stuff put forward in that particular essay, this statement IMHO is spot on.

hth,

lpl
 
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Check out the Saiga 12 forum website.....Theres several gents over there that do the conversions....:)
 
1) Get a standard (unconverted) Saiga12 now - preferrably the 19" version, but get what you can as they are hard to find.
2) Shoot it as-is until you can find someone to convert it, or do the conversion yourself.

I would get at least the basic gun now, as it could be banned in a few months. The conversion is easy and only takes a few hours and a few hundred $$$. If you screw up or want it changed later, the specialist gunsmiths can fix just about anything, and time will be on your side at that point.

Here is my home conversion:

Saiga12grass.jpg
 
The Saiga 12 in it's stock form I do believe is CA legal. It is legal in NY also. A converted Saiga 12 in the AK format though is then legally an assault weapon because of the pistol grip unless you put say a Dragunov stock on it.
 
Do you have any info on the original Saiga shotgun? I have only seen the Saiga .223 and 7.62 here in CA and they have the regular monte carlo stock and the AK looking receiver.
 
I disagree on the S12. A traditional tube gun can be loaded as you shoot and won't be banned anytime soon and looks harmless and sporting.
 
I disagree on the S12. A traditional tube gun can be loaded as you shoot and won't be banned anytime soon and looks harmless and sporting.
Click to expand...

So a Saiga cannot be loaded as you shoot? Oh you must mean that the Saiga is loaded 5-20 rounds at a time. And you think that a liberal thinks your military-style pump shotgun is harmless looking and will exclude it from a grab list? Please go on.
 
Google Saiga and look at the Russian American Arms website they have the same stocks as the Saiga rifles and the triggers are in the same position (back where the pistol grip would be on an AK). Just in general the Saiga 12 looks like any other Saiga rifle but with a big honkin' smooth bore shogun barrel sticking out the end. Since they are the not AKs and have the hunting stocks like the Saiga rifles they should be legal in CA. I know there are californians on the Saiga 12 forums who always complain they can't get anyone to ship them 10 round mags even though they are legal.

Oh and during the ban and in ban states now a pump shotgun that holds more than 5 rounds in the tube and has has a pistol grip is/was an assault weapon and is/was banned
 
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