hey guys I have 2-savage axis 223 rifles one is a heavy barrel and the other pencil barrel. I have loads of 24gr h335 with 55gr v max and mag primer and 24gr benchmark with mag primers 55gr v max. no signs of high pressure with each in the heavy barrel but coyote seasons coming up and I use the pencil barrel for that so can I swap reloads if they chamber or start a workup for that gun?
same cal diff gun reloads?
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FROGO207
Member
In the past I have tried different reloads in different rifles of the same caliber. The caveat is that the loads are NOT above or even near MAX load. If so you should at least drop 5% and work up a test load for checking pressure. So my results are that while they shoot OK from multiple rifles they are not always anywhere accurate in anything other than the rifle I worked them up for. You might get fortunate and both will group close but it has been proven that even consecutive serial numbered firearms will not shoot the same reloads with the same accuracy/POI when compared. If you try it let us know what you get for results. Hope yours are close enough.
spitballer
Member
I still believe barrel length is the primary factor to consider when exchanging ammo between rifles, but I don't have any practical experience in this regard. Seems to me if the barrel length is similar, performance would be similar. FWIW I would consider a regular primer like a CCI #400 with benchmark: an article in last year's Hodgdon Annual Reloading Manual did a great job of explaining this subject, starting on pg 60
where can I get this manual?
Yep, the old saw "each gun is different" holds true. You may get lucky and both rifles will shoot with same accuracy, but I believe barrel harmonics play a large part of how accurate it shoots. A "pencil" barrel will have much different harmonics than a "bull" barrel. But, try it...
2bfree
Member
I load all my 223s DIFFERENT because my driving force is loading for absolute accuracy for that gun, in some case I have separate dies for different rifles so once the die is set for that gun it don’t change….. For me the hottest load has not always been the most accurate. When I site in on a yote at 300 plus yards, I what to know where that bullets is gonna hit… working up a load for that particular rifle has always been the ticket for me… all the best dirt
Really depends on what u want
Really depends on what u want
Sunray
Member
You do not need magnum primers for H335 or Benchmark. Nothing horribly bad will happen if you do. Pressures might increase, but not enough to matter.
Magnum primers burn a bit hotter for a bit longer than standard primers. They're about the powder used only. They're for igniting hard to light powders and extreme cold weather shooting. Like the weather seen when shooting coyotes for the hides. The best hides come with really cold weather. No V-Maxes for that though. A-Maxes or other match grade or FMJ's(if those are legal in Ohio). Smaller holes in the hide with Wiley just as deceased.
However, 2 rifles means you have to work up a load for each. No two rifles, even if your's were consecutively S/N'd, will shoot the same ammo the same way. You can use the same brass in both though, but you must FL resize every time to do so. Works just fine too. Been doing it for eons myself.
Magnum primers burn a bit hotter for a bit longer than standard primers. They're about the powder used only. They're for igniting hard to light powders and extreme cold weather shooting. Like the weather seen when shooting coyotes for the hides. The best hides come with really cold weather. No V-Maxes for that though. A-Maxes or other match grade or FMJ's(if those are legal in Ohio). Smaller holes in the hide with Wiley just as deceased.
However, 2 rifles means you have to work up a load for each. No two rifles, even if your's were consecutively S/N'd, will shoot the same ammo the same way. You can use the same brass in both though, but you must FL resize every time to do so. Works just fine too. Been doing it for eons myself.
I don't believe barrel length is the primary factor to consider when exchanging ammo between rifles, and I have practical experience in this regard.
2 different lots of .308 Win ammo were tested in several rifles. One lot was Federal Gold Medal Match with Sierra 168's and the other was handloads with new WCC60 cases, 44 grains of IMR4064 under Sierra 168's using RWS 5341 LR primers. Here's the rifle list with the barrel particulars:
Service rifles tested with an aperture front sight:
* M14NM, 22" Obermeyer heavyweight barrel, 1:11 twist.
* M1, 24" Springfield Armory (arsenal) standard service barrel, 1:12 twist.
Bolt guns tested with a 20X scope:
* Win 70, 26" Hart barrel. 1:11 twist.
* Win 70, 28" Hart barrel, 1:11 twist.
* Win 70, 30" Obermeyer barrel, 1:12.7 twist.
* Paramount action, 32" Kreiger barrel, 1:13 twist.
They all shot about 2/3 MOA at 600 yards with 15-shot test groups.
2 different lots of .308 Win ammo were tested in several rifles. One lot was Federal Gold Medal Match with Sierra 168's and the other was handloads with new WCC60 cases, 44 grains of IMR4064 under Sierra 168's using RWS 5341 LR primers. Here's the rifle list with the barrel particulars:
Service rifles tested with an aperture front sight:
* M14NM, 22" Obermeyer heavyweight barrel, 1:11 twist.
* M1, 24" Springfield Armory (arsenal) standard service barrel, 1:12 twist.
Bolt guns tested with a 20X scope:
* Win 70, 26" Hart barrel. 1:11 twist.
* Win 70, 28" Hart barrel, 1:11 twist.
* Win 70, 30" Obermeyer barrel, 1:12.7 twist.
* Paramount action, 32" Kreiger barrel, 1:13 twist.
They all shot about 2/3 MOA at 600 yards with 15-shot test groups.
witchhunter
Member
If you want maximum accuracy, work up loads for each rifle. They may like something different. I have a set of dies dedicated for each rifle I own, even if they are the same caliber. I usually use a different headstamp brass to differentiate. The reason for the dies is; I adjust my sizer die for each rifle's chamber and the seater die to each one's liking. More work, yes, but results drive my madness. Try a 40 Vmax in your coyote rifle, it won't leave any exit holes to sew up.
Hondo 60
Member
For optimum accuracy, start low & work up.
For optimum expediency (as long as your not at max) try the existing load.
Again, as long as you're not at max, you may get lucky.
For optimum expediency (as long as your not at max) try the existing load.
Again, as long as you're not at max, you may get lucky.
Archie
Member
It depends on your final objective. From your opening, it sounds like you want greatest accuracy for both rifles. In that case, you'll (probably) need to treat each rifle as a separate project. You may get lucky and find one load that works supremely well in both, but not likely.
Militaries all over the world obtain and issues bunches of the 'same' rifle and bigger bunches of the 'same' ammo and get pretty good results. However, they are usually striving for 'minute of enemy of the homeland' rather than 'minute of angle'.
2befree answered this question but an aside, start watching the magazine racks for the 2017 edition of Hodgdon's reloading manual magazine.
Not the be all to end all but it usually has some useful articles and provides a hard copy of Hodgdon's reloading current and updated loading data. A good reference to have along with your other reloading manuals
I usually find the new editions on the magazine racks at my local grocery stores as the end of the year approaches.
I use the same 223 loads in bolt, single shot, Saiga, and several different ARs. However, all my loads are safely under max. I've never encountered a max load that was the most accurate. I'm willing to give up some accuracy to enable me to use my reloads in any gun I own on that caliber. My 3006 loads are all Garand safe for example.
Maybe that's just me.
Maybe that's just me.
rayatphonix
Member
I have 2 - 308 Win rifles with 24" barrels. They definitely don't like the same load. I sure wish they did. I've used my first load as a starting point for the second rifle.
spitballer
Member
...yes the rate of twist would matter, but not for reasons that can be explained satisfactorily.
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