Savage or Remington?

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ontarget

ontarget

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Ok, I have never been bench shooter. I stick to more of the practical shooting and field positions. I recently joined a local gun club that has ranges out to 400 yds. And have decided to try longer range from the bench. I have narrowed my rifle choices to the Savage 12FV in 6.5 Creedmoor or the Remington SPS in .308. They both have heavy barrels the Sav is 1:8 twist and the Rem is 1:12. I am totally aware that Rem is in bankruptcy right now, but how do these two options stack up? There is also an Axis with a HB in 6.5 that I could include in the mix too. Please share your thoughts.
 
IMO, the Savage will about 9 times out of 10 be the better shooter. However, they are not snazzy rifles. To me they feel kind of cheap. But they work, they're accurate, and they're inexpensive. That's a pretty good combo.

I would not touch a Remington 700 right now with a 10 foot pole. Quality, accuracy, price, everything's bad. Honestly it would be very close to the bottom of the list of modern production rifles.

So if those are the two choices, I'd get the Savage no question.
 
Savage, by the twist rate.

Model twelve by quality.

Axis for the value. That means more scope or ammunition to practice with.

I would choose Remington, only if one had a lack of neck pain and was into masochism. The mentally tortuous kind that comes from large groups from an expensive rifle.
 
While id prefer the remington, I think id probably go savage for a hole puncher. The remingtons ive handled and used over the last few years have been much better than the 2008 and 2010 i had.
BUT Savage makes a consistently very accurate rifle, so while i much prefer the looks, and handling of a 700, ill take the savage for bench use.
While the Axis is cheaper, I personally would opt for the "standard" 12fv. Its just that much nicer.
 
I like my Remingtons. They all pre-date myself on this planet, though. When I went to find a new bolt action rifle I handled five of the long range models that came with a B and C stock. Four bolts wouldn't even open, one looked like welding spatter inside it. I couldn't fathom how they left the factory, much less, that they were placed on the sales floor at Cabelas!

I went home and ordered, sight unseen, a Savage twelve F/TR. A truly wonderful rifle it is. And I haven't frequented either establishment with my patronage since.

Cabelas doesn't even send me sales flyers anymore.:( :D
 
Savage 12 is the better rifle.

6.5 is the much better option in caliber. By a wide margin.

1:8 twist is ideal for the 6.5. 1:12 isn't the best option in a 308 for what you want to do.

Between the 12 and the Axis it would come down to price. I'd lean heavily toward the 12 unless the price difference was huge. In an economy rifle I much prefer the Ruger Predator over the Axis. And probably the 12.
 
Out of the box the Savage will be more accurate. The SPS has a terrible stock and trigger. Change stock and trigger and in my experience the Remington is the more accurate. I've owned 2 Savage rifles, a 10fp and a 12 VSS, the 12 was horrible and the 10 wouldn't feed reliably. Both are gone, replaced by Remington.

My rifles are either Remington or Winchester.
 
While I like Remington M700s, I would opt for Savage based on its modular design, and readily available after-market parts and upgrades.

If your finances permit a bit more outlay than the M12FV, I would opt for the M10T. The model 10T has an Accu stock and 5R rifling. I own both the M12FV in 6.5 CM, and the M10T in .308 Win. Both are accurate, but the M10T is amazingly accurate!

If you can afford even more, look no further than the M12LRP.

JMHO,

Geno
 
Savage if you hand load. Why? Because your 700 may have a throat that is too long and a mag box that is too short to seat a bullet near the lands. Savages don't usually have that issue.
 
I have no experience with either caliber but have just started hand loading. I was a little concerned with the twist rate of the Remington in 308 for heavier bullets.
I have a Savage 11/111 in 30-06 that I really like, but I also have a Remington 700 in 7mag that shoots well. They are both great hunting rifles, I'm just thinking dedicated target shooter since that is about all that's missing from my stable. And who doesn't need just 1 more?
 
Remington for me. But I’m not a savage fan, Ford Chevy thing. 308 too.
Plan on a new stock and maybe a trigger if you want it real good.
I have no doubt either will keep you on a 2 moa target at 400 in stock trim if you handload.
 
While I do like some features of the Savage 12FV, like the ability to easily swap barrels, I think the Remington 700 is the better action. With the current situation at Remington being what it is though I don't know that I would choose a Remington 700 at the present. One of things I don't like about the 12FV, and Savages in general, is the length of their actions. No matter what round it's chambered for, the Savage action will usually be longer then it's competitors chambered for the same round. The Axis isn't a bad rifle overall for the price but is a step down from the other two. I've shot the Axis in 6.5 and although I don't care for the stock, if I was interested in getting into long range shooting on a budget I'd consider buying one. I have also shot an older Remington SPS in 308 and that particular rifle was noticeably more accurate then the Axis 6.5 I fired (but the Axis showed promise). If you choose either the SPS or the Axis and you want your rifle to shoot it's best you might as well plan on eventually replacing the factory stock or bedding and reinforcing it (as neither of the factory stocks are very good).

As far as the two rounds are concerned if you're only punching paper out to 400 yards there really isn't much reason to chose one over the other except for the fact that the 308 will be cheaper to shoot with factory loads and has a much wider selection of components. Now if you think you might at some point take it out to 1000 yards then the obvious choice is 6.5...
 
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Because your 700 may have a throat that is too long and a mag box that is too short to seat a bullet near the lands.
Click to expand...

I've never experienced this with all of the 700's that I have owned and reloaded for (a bunch). What was this 700 chambered in and what was the bullet weight?
 
I have a SPS in .223, scary accurate, hdbiker
Click to expand...

I've owned 3 Remington 700Vs in 223. All of them shot well but one was sooooo accurate that it could have passed for a 40-xb... I did bed it and put a Shilen trigger in it but still....
 
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Bush pilot:

I agree about the M700V accuracy. Mine was chambered in 6mm Rem, and held very tight groups: 3/8” at 300 yards bench rested. Common open questions included, “Did Remington somehow let a match rifle slip into the box, and that it wasn’t actually a M700V?”

They were amazingly accurate rifles. Too, I had no problems electing to create reloads to be seated into the lands, or off the lands, and never ran out of space in the magazine. There does seem to be some trend lately, of manufacturers creating barrels with longer leads than I experienced in the 80’s and 90’s rifles. That includes nortiously long leads in current manufacture M70s.

Geno
 
1:11.25 Twist rate for .308 Win/7.62 M118LR has been determined to be the optimum for use by U S Armed Services, and was incorporated with 5R rifling for the M24. The Remington 700 SA is used world wide as a basis for competition rifles so if you wish to shoot .308 Win the SPS is an excellent introductory rifle.

But many folks tout the 6.5, although improving/custom work on the Savage is a bit harder to come bye. JMHO.
Either should perform adequately @ 400 yards with proper ammunition.
 
Savage’s website suggests best accuracy for their .308 Win, 1:10 rifling is with 178 grain ammo. In all of their chamberings, Savage suggests heavy-for-caliber projectiles. In heavy-for-caliber projectiles, both 6.5 CM and .308 Win will have good BC.

As an aside, but relative to accurate shooting, I don’t notice much recoil difference between 6.5 CM and .308 Win.

By the way, have you considered picking up an older, used Remington or Savage, and building it yourself?

Geno
 
Bushpilot said:
I've never experienced this with all of the 700's that I have owned and reloaded for (a bunch). What was this 700 chambered in and what was the bullet weight?
Click to expand...
700 SPS chambered in .308. The mag box was 2.80" (Savage mag boxes are 3.00") and it was over 2.90" to the lands (don't recall off the top of my head). So, no practical way to seat a bullet near the lands.
 
So, no practical way to seat a bullet near the lands.
Click to expand...

Thanks for responding Newtosavage. I have a Rem 308 SPS that's is probably 4or 5 years old and I haven't had that problem...
A friend of mine bought a new Remington ADL Varmint last summer in 223 and the depth to the lands was .009 less then one of my 223 700V's from the 80's or 90's (I assume from erosion) because we measured them both when we loaded some ammo.. Maybe it's something new Remington is doing out of fear that someone is going to shove a long VLD bullet way into the lands and spike the pressure... or poor quality control
..
 
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Geno said:
Savage’s website suggests best accuracy for their .308 Win, 1:10 rifling is with 178 grain ammo. In all of their chamberings, Savage suggests heavy-for-caliber projectiles. In heavy-for-caliber projectiles, both 6.5 CM and .308 Win will have good BC.

As an aside, but relative to accurate shooting, I don’t notice much recoil difference between 6.5 CM and .308 Win.

By the way, have you considered picking up an older, used Remington or Savage, and building it yourself?

Geno
Click to expand...
I hadn't thought about building one. The question is could it be done cheaper than buying one if I had an action already?
 
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