Say it isn't so! Maybe move to Cali

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We lived in northern Cal for 5 years and we'd move back if we could. Cost of living is high and traffic is nutty, but there are some other benefits to consider.

We have also lived in Illinois, I'm in Illinois this week for work, and I hate this place. I would gladly move back to Calif before ever considering moving here again. There are at least 2 states worse to live in than Calif w/r/t RKBA and IL is one of them.
 
I don't know what the bay area housing market is like these days, but a couple of years back $1M would buy you a smallish single floor bungalow in the ghetto.
 
Skill Set?

It seems my skill set is in high demand and they are willing to make a very lucrative offer.

Without meaning to be too personal, what would that skill set be?

We have people working for our company that tele-commute from another state. Last year one of them moved to Idaho, this year one is moving to Texas. Their value in the business domain makes them worth keeping, even at a distance.

If you're a machinist, then tele-commute is right out.

If you're a web-head or software guy then it has some viability. A friend of mine lives in one part of California and commutes 4-5 hours to the main office once a month for face-to-face coordination stuff. The rest of the month he stays away from the crime and grime. He's not a gun guy, so he just wants to stay out of the Zone Of Death as much as he can.

Depending on your expected length of stay in the PRK (if you must go or decide to go), you might well consider finding a friend with whom you can park the hardware you can't take into the Valley Of Darkness. Then, later, when things change and you can return to civilization, your stuff can join you again.

Got any friends like that in Western Nevada? If you do, then you could visit your hardware every so often. And you'd have some company at the range.

Oh, yeah, one more thing.

Someone has already alluded to this, but "lucrative offer" is a very relative thing. When I was job hunting a few years ago, a headhunter got me accepted at a Bay Area firm, but apologized that he could only get me $95k/year to start.

I had been making significantly less, and that sounded like a bunch of cash. Then I did the research on housing and other living costs. OMG!

My pay would be going up around 20%, but my costs would be going up nearly 40%! I'd be getting a pay cut disguised as a pay raise!

I turned the job down.

Three years back, I took a 16% pay cut (within the company) to move from Las Vegas to the Reno/Carson City area -- and paid for the move myself. It's not about the money any more. It's about the way of life and my freedom to live it as well as I can.

If someone offered me a job on the CA side of the hill, the only way I'd take it is if I could live on the NV side of the line, e.g. Incline Village. I might even take a cheap apartment down in the Valley-o-Darkness, but my primary residence would remain in Nevada.

And so would my driver's license. And that's important.
 
I feel your pain. My dad recently got a job offer from a company in San Francisco. He's told them that he's "considering" the offer, while trying to find something better in a better area. He considers the SF job offer a last-resort.
 
ArmedBear Is Right About the People...

I lived in Southern Cal for a few years. My dad got a job transfer there...he was offered a large salary increase...it was a lot more then what he was making in Colorado. Our quality of life was much worse in So. Cal. The real estate is too expensive. Lots of jerky people who will try to kill you with their car as you drive to work. The road rage is out of control there. Taxes are really high. Cities have lame laws about how long your grass can grow. (I thought only home owner associations were this lame) Guns laws are lame. I always felt like I needed a concealed pistol while living there but good luck getting one where you need it most. Los Angeles feels too much like Mexico for my taste.
The Bay Area sucks too. Too many laws, too expensive & too liberal.
 
Bummer

Without meaning to be too personal, what would that skill set be?

Hands on work, expirienced HP printer tech

Sorry, dude.

Depending on your family status and a bunch of other things, you might consider either a) small home in South Tahoe or Incline Village as "primary" residence and bigger "secondary" residence in CA, or b) main, actual full-sized home on the NV side and a "weekdays only" apartment in the valley.

Either of these allows you to have a Nevada driver's license, and a place to keep your . . . valuables. Failing that, try to find some storage (like one of the Nevada THR folk) for your can't-take-to-CA goodies.

It would truly suck if you took the job, sold the collection, and some kind of AWB prevented your ever buying certain toys again.
 
This economy CAN'T possibly be to the point where the only place you can find work is in CA.

Look harder before going across that line, you will give up more than you imagine.
 
I had a prof in college that had (at that time) a BIG money offer waved at him to move to New York City. Three times what he was making in Indiana. He was all kinds of excited until he figured the cost of living. Ended up turning it down.

It isn't what you make, it's what you spend. If I had life to start over, I'd buy some cheap land, build a house myself, and save my money. It's amazing how little you can get by on if you do things right.

When contemplating moving somewhere that has a two hour commute twice a day, do a little drill. Go to your driveway, start your car, and sit in it for four hours. That's what every day for the rest of your working life will be, after the normal eight hours.

You can always make more money, but when the clock ticks you can never get those minutes back.
 
My best friend from college now lives in the bay area. He's tried to get me to go live with him, and sometimes I've considered it when it's really, really cold and I'm out all day working. Then I remember every time I've been to the bay area and how cool it seems the first two days and then after that I just hate it and want to go back.
 
Most sane people are looking to leave the state

Myself included. Bay area housing prices are astonishingly high. I know people that make 80k a year and can't afford to buy here. The lucky ones communte two or three hours and thank their lucky stars. Whatever your company dangles in front of you as incentive may seem attractive. Just realize that the cost of living is so high it might not be as much as a sane man would assume. I avoid SF like the plague. Unsafe, anti-gun, filthy and unpleasant to visit.
Good luck
 
I myself have considered a move to the Woodland/Scaramento area from So. Oregon, but have many reservations that have already been identified here. I recommend driving to SF and see for yourself what people are talking about (bring chage for the tolls!). Getting through the toll bridges is an experience anyone who curses rural living should have at least once; don't be in a hurry to get anywhere fast. My brother-in-law works until 5:30 p.m, in Burlingame, drives just under 2 hours (13 miles from his apt) and doesn't sit down to eat dinner until after 8:00 p.m. He does this 5 days a week. Good luck! Mike
 
http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=061211_Ne_A10_Calif13363

California, here we go: State sees people leaving
By MIKE SWIFT San Jose Mercury News
12/11/2006

SAN JOSE, Calif. -- Wayne Brown gave up $40,000 in income to move from the Bay Area to Kansas. And he feels great.

It got to be too much last year for the college information-technology officer: the commute to downtown San Francisco that sometimes took two hours, the housing-price spiral and the high-wire borrowing that paid for it.

"I would find myself sitting in traffic," Brown recalled, "screaming at people."

When the Kansas job came up in early 2005, Brown and his wife, Teresa, sold two Bay Area homes and happily settled in a suburb of Kansas City. They have never looked back.

The Browns are an example of what demographers say appears to be an unprecedented phenomenon -- even in a good economy, more people are leaving California for other states than are arriving from the rest of the country.

Between 2004 and 2005, the migration flow into California from the other 49 states started flowing the other way. Data from the state Department of Finance shows that, for the first time this decade, more people left California in 2005 for another state than the number who moved in. Mary Heim, a finance department demographer, says this particular kind of outflow will continue for the foreseeable future.

Unlike the tens of thousands who left Silicon Valley following the tech bust earlier this decade, the new migration is about the quest for something besides a job: a better quality of life at a lower cost of living.

For 150 years, California has been seen as the Golden State of opportunity and freedom for millions of migrating Americans. Other than recessions in the 1970s and 1990s, and possibly wars, "I don't know if California would ever have been in a position where it was losing people to other states," said Hans Johnson, a demographer with the Public Policy Institute of California. "This is very new and very different."

That doesn't mean California has lost its luster as a beacon for the nation's dreams. The flow of people to other states is small. And as the most populous state and the capital of the West, California is experiencing an out-migration that is more about maturation than decline, historians and economists say. California's population of 37 million people is still growing, because of a surplus of births over deaths and because of foreign immigration.

"What California was in the 1960s and 1970s -- a place of growth and expansion -- that California formula has been taken to so many other places" in the Sunbelt, said Kevin Starr, a history professor at the University of Southern California who specializes in the state's history.

Increasingly, the coast from San Diego to the Bay Area is like the Upper East Side of Manhattan, Starr said, a place that selects the most talented and wealthy. "It's become an extremely competitive and elite society," he said.

The most common destinations for departing Californians in recent years are five Western states -- Arizona, Nevada, Texas, Washington and Oregon, IRS data show.

"It's to some extent a continuation of a really old California story, which is that California helps populate the rest of the West," said James N. Gregory, a historian at the University of Washington who studies Western migration. "It has been sending people to its neighboring states for 150 years."

As far back as the Comstock Lode in 1859, when the discovery of silver sent miners swarming into Nevada, California has been a primary source of the white population of many of the Western states.

Just as "Las Vegas was a creation of Los Angeles . . . Seattle to some extent always was a colony of San Francisco," Gregory said. "As the most populous state in the country for almost half a century now, there's a kind of inevitable slowing down of growth, and so many people there are available to move to other places."

A new group has joined that movement in recent years.

The flow of Latinos out of California is fueling a Latino diaspora across the United States. This movement, which began in the mid-1990s, has grown into a full-fledged phenomenon, populating places such as the Northeast, Midwest and South, where Mexican-Americans only recently have lived in significant numbers. Johnson's analysis of census data shows that between 2000 and 2005, about 320,000 more Latinos left California than arrived from other states.

Latinos now "see opportunity in a different part of the country, as opposed to the historically primary areas (of migration), such as Los Angeles or San Jose," said Albert M. Camarillo, a Stanford University history professor who studies Latino immigration.

In addition to Latinos, whites and blacks also are migrating out of California. Those leaving, according to Johnson, tend to have higher incomes and are older than those arriving from other states. The only ethnic group to have more people move into California than leave are Asians.

A flow of migrants to other states is not a worry in and of itself -- if foreign immigration provides a pool of highly educated workers to replace them. A bigger worry is that the state's exorbitant housing prices relative to the rest of the country could act as a brake to economic growth if employers can't find workers.

"It's harder to keep people here; it's harder to attract people from abroad; it's harder to attract people domestically," said Stephen Levy, director of the Center for Continuing Study of the California Economy in Palo Alto. "It's a huge potential barrier."

Nearly half of California's homeowners spend more than 30 percent of their income on housing -- significantly higher than in any other state, 2005 census data shows.

"Families just can't make it in the housing market," said Dowell Myers, a professor of urban planning and demography at the University of Southern California.

Housing costs, including property taxes, also influence people who are more affluent. Stephen and Sarah Gallant moved back to Michigan this summer after nearly three years in Los Gatos, trading a $2 million house for one in Michigan that was half the cost and double the size.

"It was all about lifestyle," said Stephen Gallant, who left a job as chief financial officer for Global Motorsport Group in Morgan Hill so the couple and their two boys could move to a Detroit suburb. "If I'm going to spend $1 million on a house as opposed to $2 million, that opens up a lot of purchasing power, the ability to go out and do other things."
 
Gun ownership aside, California is a hole. It is possibly the last state I'd ever move to. Sure the Bay area is beautiful. Yeah, LA has all the Hollywood stars. But taxes are high, the schools suck, and I swear to God just living there turns people into a-holes.
 
Cracks me up, just living in CA turns you into an a-hole, schools suck, unsafe, just like Mexico... That's real thoughtful analysis. Truth is there are many communities in CA with excellent public schools, friendly people and safe streets. If you have a problem with Mexicans stay away. If you can't live without CCW, an honest to God AK and high capacity magazines stay away.

As said over an over again the real problem is housing and with all respect, a printer tech will need a highly paid spouse or roomate to live well in the Bay Area.
 
Ya, housing seems to be off the chart, wow, the numbers are staggering. Funny thing is though, we don't requier much bit it is still too spendy. We live in a 2 bed, 1 bath, 1200 sf home. It is only a place to stay at and park our RV. We gave 76k for it 5 years ago. I imagine the same place would run is 250k in the bay area.
 
We live in a 2 bed, 1 bath, 1200 sf home. It is only a place to stay at and park our RV. We gave 76k for it 5 years ago. I imagine the same place would run is 250k in the bay area.

And I thought real estate was rediculous in Morgantown... I agree with the others that it sounds like you would be giving up happiness for a perceived increase in pay. You may get paid more, but if you have to shell out 3 times more money for a house, give up your freedoms, and such, is it really worth it? From what it sounds like, you're actually getting screwed if you move. From someone who enjoys his wilderness and freedom to another, choose the freedom (and all the things you can shoot with your AK :D ).
 
We live in a 2 bed, 1 bath, 1200 sf home. It is only a place to stay at and park our RV. We gave 76k for it 5 years ago. I imagine the same place would run is 250k in the bay area.

HaHaHaHa....
Oh man,thats a good one!
(Quickdraw wipes tears from his eyes)
Not laughing at you.:D
You need 250k to get a realtor to even
talk to you.
Your house would go for anywhere from 500k to 800k
depending on area!

Doug
 
Beside all the other things mentioned, if you’re coming to the SF Bay Area you’d better like crowds. Everywhere you go, everything you try to do there will be 10 people there in front of you- usually conducting their business with all the alacrity and competence of Rainman on barbiturates. :cuss:
 
I've had similar oppurtunities

Had one request to go to California. I had already been out there on business twice a month, for about a year, and had looked at home prices in the Mountain View area. I very pointedly told me boss I would not move out there full time and that there was no way in heck I would even think of moving my family out there. Had similar oppurtunities in Massachusetts and Conneticut, turned those both down as well.

The cheap ass 2 bedroom house I got here in Indy for less than $50,000 was going for more than 10 times that price in Cali. It is also very crowded. It got to the point where I felt great getting on the airplane to come home everytime.

The people out there are just different. I was raised in a very conservative familiy, my brother lived in San Fran for 4 years while going to college and one year after that working. He quit his job after the year because he simply could not stand the unbridled ban on logic and reason out there. He chose unemployment and moving back to Omaha just to get the heck of wacky world and back to the good old mid-west.

Other have said it, just beware, me, they could not pay me enough. I would leave my job as an engineer and do anything else before I would give my freedom and taxes to any nanny state.

Just another man's opinion.
ARpersons husband.
 
I imagine the same place would run is 250k in the bay area.

You have NO IDEA, then.

Double that. Triple it if you want a place somewhere that is realistic commuting distance from SF. And then forget about parking the RV. What you can get for $750K will probably be a step down from what you have right now. No joke.

Trust me: your quality of life in Boise is FAR better than anything you will be able to get in SF, no matter what your raise. You have an RV, and you can park it on your OWN LAND. Believe me, that's a luxury here. I have a 2 bedroom condo in San Diego (1.5 miles from the beach, but not on the beach or anything). It's worth over $450K; we paid $437K a couple years back. We have a garage and 1074 sq ft -- we got lucky. Forget about an RV; there's nowhere to put it. San Diego is CHEAP compared to SF. The house price index (it's some kind of average) for San Diego Metro is about 500K, whereas SF Metro is at 800K right now.

I've scouted Idaho a few times. I know what is there, and I know what you can buy. It's truly impossible to explain to someone from Boise, what it would mean to move. You live in one of the best quality-of-life cities in the US, and it's also not expensive to live there. You will truly regret a move to the Bay Area, and high-caps have nothing to do with it.

The best thing you could do would be to grab a cheap flight out there, stay in an inexpensive motel in the suburbs, and drive in to SF every day at rush hour. Try the BART once or twice. Visit a real estate agent.

Another thing: San Diego is the only major city here where I'd consider living voluntarily, due to traffic, weather, and overall feel. Our three big cities have very different cultures from each other, but the one common denominator is road rage.

Don't listen to someone who compares Illinois. Illinois is probably worse than California by a lot of measures. Southwestern Idaho is a whole different ball of wax -- $300 season passes at a ski slope a few minutes from downtown? Flyfishing in the city limits in clean water? RV parking at a house under $1 million and near town?

I am not being condescending when I say you really have no idea what you'd be giving up. Do the hotel and real estate thing. Bring your winter jacket, because SF is colder at 60 than Boise is at 40, too. Weird thing, but Mark Twain noted it over 100 years ago.

I am not trying to irrationally dis my native state. I've just been to where you live, and I know what you'd be giving up. If you lived in an expensive crap-hole, it'd be a different story, but you don't.
 
I recently sold my CA house in Anaheim.

I sold it for 685K. It was in a fairly nice middle class neighborhood. It had RV parking, 4BR, 2.5 baths and a 3 car garage.

Needless to say you need a great credit history...

So 20% down (so you can get a stated income type loan) is $137,000 down plus about 7K or so in costs. Taxes are 1% of purchase price so your taxes would be close to 7K a year.

So:

$145,000 including costs down. Add 15-20% for bay area property or more.

548K Loan amount @ 6.25 30 year fixed: 3374 per month
Taxes 7K /12...................................... 583
....................................................... 3957 per month P&I

to qualify (on paper) for this............... $11,307 per month income

For the bay area, don't forget to add maybe 20% to these figures (13,6K a month). So unless your projected income is at least 160K per year, don't even think about moving...
 
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