scenario for home invasion

[atk]

What to do with a captured intruder?

I was wondering, what does everyone plan to do with a captured intruder, and why? What are the advantages that your actions and/or commands are expected to produce? What disadvantages do you expect?

Just to get a common starting point, here's the scenario:

You are home, alone. Someone has broken into your house. You drew a gun on him/her, and s/he surrendured. You have not had time to call the police. What do you do?

 

[BerettaNut92]

Force him/her to clean the sink, bath and toilet, and mop and vacuum the floors!

OK um...actually I was wondering that too.

Call the po-po and wait for them to haul his/her butt off?

 

[foghornl]

Call the police, phone in one hand, favorite goblin repellant launcher in other.

When you have police on phone, let them know you have said person at gunpoint. "...I will be laying down fone now, to better cover the intruder. Hope you get here before I have to shoot him AGAIN....."

 

[atk]

OK.


So, what position do you order the intruder to take? Sitting? Lying down? Pirouette? Facing you (as the FBI does) or facing away?

Do you try to tie him/her up?

Do you check him/her for (more) weapons, or just hope s/he doesn't reach for one?

What about when you are trying to get the intruder into the room with the phone (assuming you haven't tied him/her up)? Do you make him/her crawl, walk backwards, walk on his/her knees with ankes crossed?


Sorry about being so... questiony, but I have been thinking about this a bit, and I'm not sure what the best procedure might be...

 

[Quartus]

It IS a sticky wicket.

Well, if you order him (or her!) to lie down/spread eagle/assume the position or whatever, what will you do if the perp refuses? Shoot?

What if he just leaves? Shoot?


Hmmm. Nasty legal issues.


How about this: "If you move at all, I will assume you are reaching for a weapon, and I will shoot you in self defense."


Then follow through.

I would be telling the truth - not just making a cover story for murder. How could you know that ANY move was not a prelude to reaching for a weapon?


But who lets the police in the front door?

 

[Logistar]

But who lets the police in the front door?

Hmmmm. It MIGHT already be open thanks to the perp. If not.... I guess you would have to LEAVE the perp to open the door???

That IS a good question.

 

[Jeff White]

Order the intruder into the prone, tell them that you are holding them at gunpoint and that any move they make towards you will be viewed as an attack and dealt with accordingly. In you best command voice say:

"I have you at gunpoint, the police are on their way. I will take any move you may make towards me as an attack and deal with it appropriately!"

"Lay face down on the ground!"

"Put your arms straight out at your side!"

'Turn your palms up towards the ceiling!"

"Spread your feet as far apart as you can!"

This is a pretty safe position. The subject will not be able to quickly get up without telegraphing theier intent. Do not move from your position (try to put something between you and the subject i.e. large furniture etc.) or approach the subject. If the subject gets up and runs for the door, let them. Even though the laws pertaining to citizen's arrest in many states may permit you the same powers as a peace officer to detain the subject, it's better to let them escape then to face the civil and/or criminal (depending on jurisdiction) liability involved with forcefully detaining them.

Jeff

 

[atk]

The position you describe sounds good... but makes me ask a another question

Do you have him/her face you as s/he's going to the ground, or face away? Or do you not care?

I suppose if s/he doesn't do what you demand, s/he has only two other options: run or wait. If s/he runs, I tend to agree with you - let him/her go. If s/he stays, I'd guess you just continue ordering him/her until s/he chooses how to react...

Do not move from your position (try to put something between you and the subject i.e. large furniture etc.) or approach the subject.

Sounds good. I can forsee a couple problems, though: What if you haven't called the police yet? and what if the phone is in the other room? I guess this could be "order them into the other room, then down to the ground".

But what orders can you give him/her that will keep you safer while moving?

 

[Quartus]

Jeff, that all sounds good. And I know you know whereof you speak. But what do you do if he just smiles and says no?

 

[Shweboner]

I live in a townhouse, so they'd ahve to come up the stairs first... giving me extra time to prepare. As soon as they hit the landing, they'd have a pistol in the face.

1. Order (be as intimidating as possible) the perp to come forwrd, lie face down on the floor. I agree with Jeff, any movement is viewed as a threat and will be dealt with.

2. call police. Inform them what has happened and the I am armed, also that officers should announce themselves when arriving as to avoid any misunderstandings.

3. keep perp face down, possibly give a quick pat-down, keep them in place by applying a little pressure to the back of teh neck via my boot. that should prevent any movments.

4. should s/he get away, let them go. Im not a cop... besides he'll think twice about breaking into another house again.


~brain

 

[OF]

Ever see Pulp Fiction?
















Kidding...I'm kidding...really. Sort of. No, I'm kidding, really.

- Gabe

 

[Logistar]

keep perp face down, possibly give a quick pat-down, keep them in place by applying a little pressure to the back of teh neck via my boot. that should prevent any movments.

My opinion is that I don't intend to get that close. (Call me chicken!) If you move that close, they might quickly roll over or otherwise attack you.

1. You might loose control of situation.
2. They might wrestle your gun from you.
3. If they see a chance, they might move against you and you'd be forced to shoot them. (I don't want to be forced into that unnecessarily.)

I will keep them clearly in sight (possibly behind cover) and keep my sights on them until the police arrive. If they move, I get the first shot!

(I wear a cell phone any time I am out of bed and my house has a phone in every room.)

Just my opinion.

Logistar

 

[Wilhelm]

Shoot em 3-4 times then stick that rusty .22 I found in his hand.



Wilhelm

 

[scottgun]

Relase the hounds....

Seriously, from watching felony stops on tv, have the suspect face away from you, then kneel and then lie face down heading away from you. It puts you at a better position, and any attept to focus on you visually and turn around is agression on their part.

 

[Scooter .45]

How about the old cliche': Shoot first, ask questions later?

I plan to shoot most anyone who breaks into my home at night, regardless. At least thats the plan. When the adrenaline flows, who can say for sure?

It's just the wife and me, so once I verify she's still in bed, any other humanoid sillouette in the house is fair game.

 

[JPM70535]

I always maintained that any intruder into my home would leave there only one way and that was feet first. Looking at the situation from a strictly legal standpoint, that may or may not be the proper course of action. If in the initial contact between the homeowner and the perp, the homeowner feels threatened then I would say that the use of deadly force is fully justified. If the homeowner confronts the perp and orders him to do whatever is deemed appropriate and does not shoot, a whole new scenario has developed. If the perp simply turns and runs, shooting him in the back is not an option, let him go. If he lunges at the homeowner from any distance of 21 feet or less, the homeowner may not have the time to react to the perps aggressive movement resulting in a hand to hand struggle which he may or may not win.

On further reflection I think my initial statement would seem to be the safest course of action, and I always vote for SAFETY!!!

 

[Kevlarman]

I've always believed that if a perp runs even when you're holding him at gunpoint that he will come back at a later date to exact revenge upon you (possibly better armed). Isn't it better to either kill him (er, stop him), or have the police haul him away and lock him up for many years?

What are the legalities of detaining a perp? Can I throw a pair of handcuffs at him and tell him to put them on? How about ziptying him to the banister or something?

I'm reminded of an old episode of Tintin, "Wanna know how to call the cops without a phone? *raises gun in the air - BKAM BKAM BKAM!*" Now those are books the French can be proud of!

 

[M1911]

So, what position do you order the intruder to take? Sitting? Lying down? Pirouette? Facing you (as the FBI does) or facing away?

Order him to raise his hands. Higher. Order him to SLOWLY, turn around, facing away. Order him to SLOWLY lie down, facing away. Order him to spread his arms out, palms up. Order him to cross his ankles. Then wait while my better 1/3 calls the police.

If the perp runs away, I'll let him go.

Do you try to tie him/her up?

Do you check him/her for (more) weapons, or just hope s/he doesn't reach for one?

Are you COMPLETELY NUTS! That would require that I 1) holster my gun and 2) get close to him. The WHOLE POINT of a gun is that it is a weapon that lets me kill while maintaining a distance. So why would I want to give up that distance and get close enough to end up wrestling with the perp (him trying to get my gun the whole time).

Nope, not gonna do it; wouldn't be prudent. Keep your distance, do not close with the perp. If he gets up and runs away, let him. If he gets up and runs toward you, shoot him. Cuffing him is what the police get paid for and they'll have at least 2 officers to do that.

 

[M1911]

What are the legalities of detaining a perp? Can I throw a pair of handcuffs at him and tell him to put them on? How about ziptying him to the banister or something?

You can tell him to do what ever you want. But he might not do it. If you throw handcuffs at him, you've just given him a pretty effective impact weapon.

Ziptying him to a banister? That would require that you get within wrestling distance, wouldn't it?

Tell him to lie down, facing away. If he obeys, great, just wait until the police arrive. If he runs away, let him. If he comes after you, shoot him.

 

[hd1.]

Oh course, we have to bear in mind that the perp may have an accomplice outside. Don't have your back to the door, or stand in front of a window!

 

[Jeff White]

But what do you do if he just smiles and says no?

You really have to decide if a reasonable man (jury or judge)would deem the subject's smiling at you and saying no as a sufficient threat for you to use deadly force. How you portray yourself has a lot to do with if the subject complies with your command or not. Sounding confident and in charge will have a lot to do with it. Being hesitant or unsure of yourself may make the subject think he can get by with resisting.

As M1911 said, face the subject away from you. Don't approach. Don't try to pat down for weapons. Keep a reactive distance and something between you and the subject and wait.

Jeff

 

[Chris Rhines]

A couple of points:

- Shooting a surrendered suspect will get you sent to prison, especally if you try to 'salt' the scene with a throwdown piece or a kitchen knife. Forensic Investigators tend to be very good at their jobs, and they will figure it out if you try to decieve them. Don't do it.

- Telling the BG that any movement on his part will be assumed hostile is a good idea, but you don't want to get into long conversations with him. Conversations are like negotiations - all about providing access, and you don't want to provide access to a bad guy. Keep your verbal commands as short and direct as possible.

- Get yourself behind solid cover at first opportunity.

- Don't try to tie up the bad guy unless you have a friend/spouse/partner covering them with another gun. Even then, it's probably not worth the risk.

- Keep a spare house key in your nightstand, with a Cylume lightstick attached to it. After calling the cops, crack the lightstick and toss the key out your bedroom window. Tell the 911 dispatcher/cops to look for the glowing stick if they need house keys.

- If the bad guy tries to leave, let him.

- In fact, instead of detaining the BG for the police, you might be better off letting him go from the beginning. Every minute the BG is in your home is another minute that he, or an accopmlice, has to turn the tables on you.

- Chris

 

[4 eyed six shooter]

Why should I watch a dead man? If you are holding the BG at gunpoint, no matter how you have him positioned, if he makes a move at you, shoot until he is no longer a threat. If he is running away and you shoot him, it may be hard to justify multiple holes in his back. In my opinion, if he has broken into an occupied home, he is a very dangerous person and should be handled as one. Nuf said.

 

[ShaiVong]

I really don't want to die. Infact, I don't particularly want anyone else to die either, if only because of legal messes.

If i'm home alone, then the gigantic thread above this would be applicable.

Me: Freeze (insert cuss word)! One more move and i start punching holes!

Perp: *piddle*

etc...

BUT (and its a big butt), if my wife is home, and I know for a fact that it's not her out there in the dark, I dont care who else it is. The perp gets two in the hat without me even saying a word. Only way hes leaving is with the toe tag door pass.

I can take chances with me, but not with her.

 

[Graystar]

Someone asked a similar question here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1184

I think my answer is basically the same...

"Why did you give him orders in the first place?? You're not a cop...shoot!

1 out of every 6 cops that are shot and killed, are shot with their own gun. You are taking an enormous risk by not shooting. You're not responsible for public safety....only your own. Shoot.
"