scenario for home invasion

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I'd be very leery of plinking at a shadow in the house at night - Yeah, it might be a bad guy, or it could be the neighbor next door who you gave a key to, whose wife just left him for the used car salesgirl, and changed all the locks on his house, so he went out and got tanked before he decided he needed a place to crash...

If I get a housepest and want them to stick around for the po-po, I'll guess I'll have a 20 minute wait... It's on the ground, facing away from me, with legs and arms spread. Then I'll inform 'em that I've got a nice clear shot, and that if they so much as twitch, they won't be having kids, and will be "using" a bag for the rest of their miserable life...
 
Whatever you do, don't tell him he's got a "purdy" mouth. That'll freak him out no end and he might run over you trying to get out of the house.

In all seriousness, either don't take the perp prisoner (probably the best course of action in most circumstances) or tell him not to move at all if you do. State that any furtive movement will be met with lethal force as you believe he's going for a weapon. As the threads indicate, you run into a lot of issues rapidly as to how to maintain control, when is force authorized, how do you call 911 and not get distracted by the ensuing conversation, etc.
 
Which is where I'd want him if he's willing to submit.
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Agreed! But nobody has answered my question:


What do you do if he simply refuses? What if he just stands there and smiles at you? You're alone, and not close to the phone, and don't have a cell phone. (You screwed up.)


He won't raise his hands. He doesn't turn to leave. He doesn't move.

He just smiles.


What do you do?
 
Quartus,
If he doesn't follow your commands and just stands there smiling at you, you really have no choice but to put yourself in the safest position you can and wait for help. You're probably dealing with an emotionally disturbed person and the last thing you want to do is try to physically subdue him. If the smiling subject approaches you after being warned off, take appropriate action to defend yourself.

I wouldn't get all wrapped up in trying to talk the subject into complying with your instructions. Just keep him covered and wait for backup. As I said earlier, standing there smiling at you is not an attack liable to cause death or great bodily harm.

Jeff
 
If he's not doing anything, then you don't fire. You give him the verbal commands and either: 1. retreat to an area of safety (assuming you've trained in how to move back without looking, know the area behind you well, and there is no one who would be endangered by the retreat) or 2. call 911.

If there's no room to retreat, then I believe that a legitimate case of self-defense could be made in shooting said person on the following basis:

1. he is in an area he has no legitimate authority to be in (i.e. your bedroom)

2. he is faced with the rightful inhabitant who is pointing a deadly weapon

3. he is refusing to comply with the inhabitant's instructions, which are designed and intended to control the situation and reduce the risk to both participants

4. he is acting in a manner completely inconsistent with what a rational person would do in such a situation, unless there is an intent to preserve the ability to do you harm

5. there is no viable alternative (i.e. you can't call 911 because you can't reach the phone, you can't have a standoff for eternity).

It would be helpful if there was some hostile movement at that stage, but most states have the castle doctrine which doesn't require retreat. Further, there is a presumption in many states that a person who enters another's abode while the inhabitant is there has a felonious intent.
 
you're alone, noone knows that he wasn't threatening you, quickly reaching behind him, etc... ;) Being in your house uninvited I doubt you'll have too much of a problem if you just shoot him. I think it would be hard to shoot someone who is just standing there smiling though. Maybe pop him i the knee then go call the cops? Just don't turn your back on him. It is hard to imagine how one would react without being in that situation.
 
If you lie about the circumstances of the shooting, you're probably going to be dead legally. Most people really have no idea how good forensic investigators are. They can reconstruct how far away the person was when the bullet impacted, their body position, etc.

"Okay, so the guy lunged at you, correct? If that's the case, why was he perfectly erect when you fired, consistent with someone just standing there, as shown by the tragectory of the wound, blood pattern, and the tragectory of the bullet in the wall? No answer. Well. Maybe you'll have one for your cell mate."
 
standing there smiling at you is not an attack liable to cause death or great bodily harm.
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Well, you haven't seen my brother smile! :uhoh:

:D


Seriously, a smile in a situation like that would make me pay verrrry close attention to my back!

Either he's got a friend or two, or he's out to lunch. Or he's smart enough to play a waiting game, knowing that your arms are going to get tired eventually.

Not a good situation. I guess I'd get comfortable, shout for help at intervals, and hope they get there before he makes a move.

:(
 
"Well, you see, I have my 9mm pressed against the base of this guy's skull. My trigger finger is kinda shaky, and I am sort of out of it, since I was just awakened when this jerk broke into my house. You have 10 minutes to get the police here. If you can't do that, just send the coroner."

I would bet that the cops would be here pretty fast.
 
Have the perp lie face down, legs spread, arms outstretched to the sides, palms up, keep quiet, and call 911 while holding the gun on him.

Once the perp is no longer an immediate threat, that's my only acceptable course of action.
 
Don't pay attention to the smile. It is not a regular social situation where a smile means something. He might smile as act of submission, or to deceive you before he lunges at you.
I would not want to guess wrong.

Some criminals act drunk to get you off-guard before they attack. Acting friendly could be the same sort of thing.

Weimadog
 
:D Well, there are all kinds of smiles. I was thinking more of an evil, smart alek kind of smile. But even if he just stares at you and does not move, you've got the same problem. You can't legally or morally shoot, as it is clear that he is not threatening you.

Some may think that him just being there will clear you in your jurisdiction, but if the DA finds out that he was just standing there and not moving, you are likely to face murder charges regardless of what the statute says.
 
Well, at the risk of being redundant:

I guess I'd get comfortable, shout for help at intervals, and hope they get there before he makes a move.
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Sitting at a desk behind a computer, that's my best guess. We never really know, do we? I'm sure if he made a move I would have to shoot, but I hope it doesn't come to that.

I asked the question because I wanted some input. It's a weird situation. But a lot of situations are more mental power games than anything else. The BG that is smart enough can use that to his advantage. The average person (including me) is simply NOT going to shoot someone who is just standing there offering no resistance. If the BG is cool headed enough, he might try to exploit that. A "He who blinks first loses." kind of thing.

Especially if you are in a remote area and your shouts are NOT going to be heard.

So after hearing all of this advice to tell him this and tell him that, it occured to me to ask, "but what if he doesn't comply?".


What would you do?
 
Living in a small duplex, no matter where the BG enters, he is pretty much within 21 feet of myself, my wife, or my 2 kids. I am a deep sleeper, my wife is not. She would be the one waking me up, and that would give the BG time to get even closer to me or my family, and I would have to say that I would shoot to stop the threat. If I feel that there is time for it, I may issue a warning, however if time does not permit, the only warning would be the muzzle flash just before he feels the burning sensation of a 185 gr. JHP ripping through his chest.
 
What to do with a captured intruder?

Why, turn him over to the police, of course.
 
you awaken to find you are the victim to a home invasion.

you go through the motions an find the perpetrator an they stop/cease/desist an are not armed. obviously you are. an at that point they beg for mercy or break for it

how do you detain/subdue them for law enforcement to arrive.

looking for the legal answers an the not so legal. as well as how you can keep them there? can you tie them up/handcuff them. can you knock them unconcious. what, how, why
 
"can you knock them unconcious"

man that only works in the movies. In real life they die and you go up the river.
 
thanks jeff

an sorry to whoop the horse so to speak!


horesense thanks for the input. but a buttstroke to the head/jaw wont kill em
 
"I'm sorry officer, I was in fear for my life, I coudlnt tell if he was coming or going. It was dark, I didn't knwo what was going on. I had to shoot him, I didn't know his intent. I'm gonna wait to make a statement 'till my lawyer gets here"
 
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