School me on progressive presses
- Thread starter bensdad
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mallc
Member
Neither of you are doing apples to apples comparisons. I guess I just have the good fortune to set-up my bench the way I like.
Best wish and happy/safe loading no matter how you do it.
Scott
BigJakeJ1s
Member
As I stated in my original cost comparison, I assumed a "no-adjustments-needed cartridge conversion" for comparisons 2 and 3. Such a conversion is indeed an apples to apples comparison.
Just because you have to purchase a whole new powder measure to avoid adjusting it on a Dillon does not mean you have to do so on the Hornady.
You assumed that, just like the Dillon, you needed an entire Hornady PM, upper linkage and powder die to avoid adjusting the powder throw or case mouth expansion settings. Only the Hornady powder die and metering insert need be swapped. The PM and upper linkage need not be re-adjusted at all, and can be re-used easily, without tools. Swapping the metering insert is a push-button process that does not even require the PM to be emptied. Changing out the powder die underneath the PM and upper linkage requires loosening a single thumb screw, and re-tightening it, but has no impact on powder charge or case belling.
I suppose you could use a Hornady PM/linkage/powder die/PTX, and an RCBS lockout die on the Dillon to make the costs closer, but that is missing the point of the comparison. Note that neither the Dillon PM nor powder alarm can be used without modification on the AP.
Andy
mallc
Member
Andy, you should not "assume".
This is not true, one only need change the powder slide. Set the powder charge and change the slide at change over. Lot's of guys do this. You can also use a micrometer to dial in various charges.
Once again you obviously don't work with Dillion equipment yet you fault my choice based on your limited experience. I hold a Type VI FFL and load a lot of stock and custom ammo I have more than a dozen presses dedicated to particular loading tasks. I load enough 9mm, 40, 45 and .223 on the 650 that I have full toolheads WITH ALARMS for each. I load a ton of 5.7x28 on the small primer LNL so I have a PM dedicated to Tru-Blue and another that I swap inserts for various powders. I only have one PM for my large primer LNL-AP because it really doesn't get that much use as most big rounds are small batch hunting or precision rounds that go to the T7. I will say the HORNADY powder dump is a great tool but separate measures are the easiest way to run small shop production.
Yes, I did point out the LNL's limited safety features earlier didn't I. But, did you know that you can install the RCBS Powder Check rod upside down using the cap for a stop and it works pretty well for bottle neck rounds as small as 5.7x28?
My point here is that some folks come on the High-Road thinking that they've got everything figured out and other folks are stupid for not doing it the same way. The fact is Andy, that all of the tricks I use AND the equipment I do it with are the result of what I considered to be great advise from other High Road posters. Most High Roaders look for ways to make reloading as safe and reliable but occasionally we do get someone who sets out to prove another wrong.
Again, my best wishes for safe and productive reloading, no matter how YOU do it.
PS - My next press will be another Dillon 650 unless someone has a 1050 they want to part with....Like that's going to happen...
Scott
This is not true, one only need change the powder slide. Set the powder charge and change the slide at change over. Lot's of guys do this. You can also use a micrometer to dial in various charges.
Once again you obviously don't work with Dillion equipment yet you fault my choice based on your limited experience. I hold a Type VI FFL and load a lot of stock and custom ammo I have more than a dozen presses dedicated to particular loading tasks. I load enough 9mm, 40, 45 and .223 on the 650 that I have full toolheads WITH ALARMS for each. I load a ton of 5.7x28 on the small primer LNL so I have a PM dedicated to Tru-Blue and another that I swap inserts for various powders. I only have one PM for my large primer LNL-AP because it really doesn't get that much use as most big rounds are small batch hunting or precision rounds that go to the T7. I will say the HORNADY powder dump is a great tool but separate measures are the easiest way to run small shop production.
Yes, I did point out the LNL's limited safety features earlier didn't I. But, did you know that you can install the RCBS Powder Check rod upside down using the cap for a stop and it works pretty well for bottle neck rounds as small as 5.7x28?
My point here is that some folks come on the High-Road thinking that they've got everything figured out and other folks are stupid for not doing it the same way. The fact is Andy, that all of the tricks I use AND the equipment I do it with are the result of what I considered to be great advise from other High Road posters. Most High Roaders look for ways to make reloading as safe and reliable but occasionally we do get someone who sets out to prove another wrong.
Again, my best wishes for safe and productive reloading, no matter how YOU do it.
PS - My next press will be another Dillon 650 unless someone has a 1050 they want to part with....Like that's going to happen...
Scott
Me thinks the apple and oranges comparison is what the objectives of the reloading session are. Folks loading ammunition for sale or high volume will have different needs or requirements than the hobby reloader.
Obviously, with either company, one can make a cartridge change on the cheap--dies and a shell plate--and adjust the fool out of everything else. Or, one can go expensive and buy a dedicated press with all the bells and whistles (pun intended!) for each cartridge to be loaded and be loading a different cartridge mere seconds after finishing up on the last one.
How much do you want to spend?
Obviously, with either company, one can make a cartridge change on the cheap--dies and a shell plate--and adjust the fool out of everything else. Or, one can go expensive and buy a dedicated press with all the bells and whistles (pun intended!) for each cartridge to be loaded and be loading a different cartridge mere seconds after finishing up on the last one.
How much do you want to spend?
Last edited:
BigJakeJ1s
Member
Mallc,
The failsafe rod must be re-adjusted if the Dillon PM is reused for different cartridges, whether a spare powder bar or 3rd party micrometer adjustment is used to avoid adjusting the powder charge itself. Therefore, the re-use of a Dillon PM for a different cartridge is not a "no adjustments needed" procedure, and is not an apples to apples comparison with reusing the Hornady PM by swapping inserts.
I have no doubt that many Dillon users either swap powder bars or use micrometer adjusters with great success, as do many that simply purchase enough additional equipment (up to and including additional presses) to make changing calibers as simple as possible. Taken to its extreme, the simplest changeover is to simply purchase an entire new press and set one up for each caliber you reload.
It is not my intention to show cost comparisons for every conceivable choice of changeover kits, but to bound the choices with lowest cost and highest cost kits with comparable procedures (either minimum cost and maximum adjustment, or greater cost and no adjustment.) Nor is it my intention to tell users which equipment to use, or how to use it. I am simply trying to provide accurate information with which they can make their own choices.
The Dillon failsafe feature is required to reliably cycle the lighter weight Dillon powder measures. Heavier cast iron and steel Hornady powder measures reliably cycle without such a feature, and the powder alarm/lockout die is there to catch either if they do not. In the process, the failsafe limits the Dillon PM to use only in the 2nd station of the press, whereas the Hornady PM can be used in any station. The Dillon audible powder check also works in only the 3rd station, and requires fresh batteries to operate. The RCBS powder lockout die works in any station, and does not need batteries.
Are you referring to inverting the stem on the RCBS powder check die, or on the powder lockout die? Either way, it's good info to know; thanks.
Andy
The failsafe rod must be re-adjusted if the Dillon PM is reused for different cartridges, whether a spare powder bar or 3rd party micrometer adjustment is used to avoid adjusting the powder charge itself. Therefore, the re-use of a Dillon PM for a different cartridge is not a "no adjustments needed" procedure, and is not an apples to apples comparison with reusing the Hornady PM by swapping inserts.
I have no doubt that many Dillon users either swap powder bars or use micrometer adjusters with great success, as do many that simply purchase enough additional equipment (up to and including additional presses) to make changing calibers as simple as possible. Taken to its extreme, the simplest changeover is to simply purchase an entire new press and set one up for each caliber you reload.
It is not my intention to show cost comparisons for every conceivable choice of changeover kits, but to bound the choices with lowest cost and highest cost kits with comparable procedures (either minimum cost and maximum adjustment, or greater cost and no adjustment.) Nor is it my intention to tell users which equipment to use, or how to use it. I am simply trying to provide accurate information with which they can make their own choices.
The Dillon failsafe feature is required to reliably cycle the lighter weight Dillon powder measures. Heavier cast iron and steel Hornady powder measures reliably cycle without such a feature, and the powder alarm/lockout die is there to catch either if they do not. In the process, the failsafe limits the Dillon PM to use only in the 2nd station of the press, whereas the Hornady PM can be used in any station. The Dillon audible powder check also works in only the 3rd station, and requires fresh batteries to operate. The RCBS powder lockout die works in any station, and does not need batteries.
Are you referring to inverting the stem on the RCBS powder check die, or on the powder lockout die? Either way, it's good info to know; thanks.
Andy
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