Seattle gun laws

[silicosys4]

Glad it's worked for you. You would be the first person I have talked to who says open carry in Seattle is no problem. I'm curious as to why, perhaps you have a demeanor that invokes authority and does not invite skepticism.
However, your experiences are not all encompassing or representative of everyone's experiences.
I have actually talked to several people that have had negative experiences with the open carry of firearms within Seattle.

Perhaps I shall try it this Friday, I will be in the Seatac airport.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This is an example of the work others have done to prevent police harassment of pople carrying firearms, and it has been extremely successful throughout the state, including Seattle:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/agopinions/WashingtonStOpenCarryBulletin.pdf

And this helps too:
http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/bellingham-man-wins-15000-settlement-after-city-co/nZPdj/

"Bellingham man wins $15,000 settlement after city cop stops him for carrying gun in park"

He is a personal friend of mine and both he and his wife have brand new motorcycles compliments of the City of Bellingham.

90% of the horror stories you hear about open carry, at least in Washington, are from people who have never open carried. The 9% of horror stories that are true are usually people who were doing something other than going about their daily routines with a handgun in a holster. Then there is the 1% like the Bellingham case - and we are seeing less and less of those ever being prosecuted because there is strong case law in Washington defending carrying a firearm (even rifles) by people who were simply going about normal daily activities. If the "subject" pushes it beyond no charges filed or charges dropped, the results can be new motorcycles...

 

[silicosys4]

Hmm, so you say that open carry in the Seattle area is not a problem, then give a personal anecdote about problems your friends have had while open carrying, to the point of filing suit.
Like I said, I'm glad it's worked for you, but let's not pretend that your situation is the norm. If it were there would be no need for this extensive police retraining you cited.
Glad they are feeling the sting though. The police, that is. I agree that the more people open carrying in Seattle, the better.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Hmm, it sounds to me like open carry in the Seattle area is indeed a problem, then.....since you personally know somebody who has been harassed to the point of filing a lawsuit.

You might want to study Washington state geography a bit more.

Like I said, I'm glad it's worked for you, but let's not pretend that your situation is the norm. If it were there would be no need for this extensive police retraining you cited.
Glad they are feeling the sting though. The police, that is.

"My situation" has become the norm BECAUSE OF the extensive police retraining. It has become the norm BECAUSE OF the people who did not hide their firearms at the suggestions of those who say, "Don't open carry your gun because the police will harass you!"

 

[silicosys4]

My mistake, the city of discussion was Seattle and the surrounding areas, so I thought I read Bellevue
Do you feel better now that you have picked that nit?
Done here though, since its apparent that you feel that your experiences are representative of everyone's, and you assert one thing; open carry is no issue...then you give examples that support the opposite....your friends' harassment and the ongoing need for police retraining to respect open carry.
While that indicates that Seattle is grudgingly moving towards being friendly to open carry, it is most certainly not there yet, despite your assertions otherwise.
Thank you for your efforts in promoting open carry.

Seattle Police just shot and killed two men two months ago for "waving a gun".
http://www.king5.com/news/crime/BRE...ting-officer-involved-shooting-241235721.html

The suspect who was shot by Seattle Police Monday night in SODO has died. He is 36-year-old Andrew Law, who was waving a gun, according to police.

"The Seattle Police Department said there were multiple reports of a man waving a gun near a bus stop. When officers arrived, they said the man refused to give up the gun. An officer armed with a rifle shot the suspect.
Law was the second suspect to be shot by Seattle Police in a 36-hour period.
On Sunday morning, Seattle Police shot a man who was flashing a gun in Belltown.
The officer-involved shootings will be investigated in a new way, starting this year."

So it seems they are not all that tolerant at the sight of a gun. Two men shot within 36 hrs for "flashing" a gun. SHOWING A GUN. Yet you say open carry will pose no problems? For all we know those were both situations of open carry that were handled inappropriately by all involved and unfortunately escalated.

Showing a gun in Seattle WILL get you unwanted attention more often than not.

 

[Mainsail]

Showing a gun in Seattle WILL get you unwanted attention more often than not.

Upon what do you base this assertion? My experience has been the same as Navy’s. I have carried openly in Seattle, Bellevue, and Tacoma (including up on Hilltop) with no drama for many years. You’re not seeing that there was a transitional period. There was a time that OC would get you a police visit, but those days are long gone. Police encounters for OC are extremely rare now; the police know it’s lawful and as such they cannot detain you for doing it. If your source doesn’t know how to handle an encounter with a police officer he is likely feeding you misinformation. You don’t have to talk to the police you know.

Claiming OC WILL get you unwanted attention is as false as it is vague. I carried openly every day when I lived down in the Stadium District in Tacoma. My last ‘unwanted attentions’ back in the old days went thusly:
LEO: “Sir, may I speak to you?”
ME: “Am I being detained?”
LEO: “No”
ME: “You have a nice day officer” and I walked away.

Those are rare these days, despite what you friends are telling you.

 

[silicosys4]

Upon what do you base this assertion? My experience has been the same as Navy’s.

Claiming OC WILL get you unwanted attention is as false as it is vague. I carried openly every day when I lived down in the Stadium District in Tacoma. My last ‘unwanted attentions’ back in the old days went thusly:
LEO: “Sir, may I speak to you?”
ME: “Am I being detained?”
LEO: “No”
ME: “You have a nice day officer” and I walked away.

Those are rare these days, despite what you friends are telling you.

Fair enough, I am certainly in error on that one.
However, the stadium district of Tacoma is not downtown Seattle.
If you can open carry through downtown Seattle as a younger male wearing casual clothes and not be harassed, I would be very, very surprised. I'm there a few times a week and Its not a common sight. I have never seen open carry in Seattle and I know I've never run into any of the Seattle open carriers posting here, lol. IMO The two positive firsthand experiences posted here does not trump years of documented continuing problems with Seattle PD overreacting to perceived threats, and the negative firsthand experiences I have heard from others concerning open carry.
I'm also not a retired gentleman wearing a navy cap...who might get more leeway from LE. So I guess that means I will be open carrying through downtown Seattle this Friday, I'm interested in seeing if Seattle has indeed become open carry friendly. BTW "friendly" to me does not mean having to constantly walk away from police wishing to detain me to talk to me about my open carrying.

 

[CoalTrain49]

You know this based on facts? Would it not be equal probability, especially since Seattle was the subject of the court case where their prohibition of firearms in public parks/recreation areas was completely shot down, that the dispatcher would screen the call?

"What is the man doing with gun?"
"He's shopping."
"Where is the gun?"
"In the thingy hanging from his belt."
"I'm sorry, but there is nothing we can do. If the man actually threatens someone with the gun by taking it out of the thingy hanging on his belt, please call us back."

With the loss that Seattle suffered in court - and they appealed all the way to the WA State Supreme Court who refused to hear their appeal on the basis that it had no merit - Seattle would probably be the least likely place to see police involving themselves with a subject who is only carrying a handgun in a holster. The Seattle government already knows and has been trained what the law is, as have most of the police departments throughout the state. The police officer can even respond to the call and not make contact with the subject: "Subject was observed shopping with a holstered handgun. No cause for further investigation observed."

Also, why is it my responsibility to "prevent" people from calling 911 by changing my daily and legal routine and habits?

No, don't have any facts because I don't open carry there. Just based on what I read. Mostly I don't go into Seattle unless I'm on business or going to some event at the stadium, which is what I was doing the last time I went there. I have a CPL and use it so I can go about my business and not worry about other people and their screwed up ideas about my right to carry. I don't like drawing attention when it isn't necessary. I used to live in Seattle and learned that it was best to blend into the landscape like a rattlesnake when you can. Besides, it lets the liberals enjoy their false sense of security. I have friends who are liberal.

 

[Evergreen]

Navy, thanks for clearing up the CPL thingy.. I was being lazy and didn't bother looking at my license expiration date.. I just received a new license from the Sheriff, which they mailed to me in 4 days after I filled out the renewal form.

BTW, CHL, CPL what's the difference?? Geez The only real difference is a CWP/CWL where you are allowed to conceal other weapons than a handgun/pistol, which is not allowed in Washington. I guess the only difference i can think of off the top of my head is that an AR-15 Pistol isn't really referred to as an AR-15 handgun, but, technically, is there a difference in the government's eyes?

With the loss that Seattle suffered in court - and they appealed all the way to the WA State Supreme Court who refused to hear their appeal on the basis that it had no merit - Seattle would probably be the least likely place to see police involving themselves with a subject who is only carrying a handgun in a holster. The Seattle government already knows and has been trained what the law is, as have most of the police departments throughout the state. The police officer can even respond to the call and not make contact with the subject: "Subject was observed shopping with a holstered handgun. No cause for further investigation observed.

Here's a much more likely, real-life scenario of a guy open carrying in a place like Wallingford or Fremont in Seattle.

SCARED SEATTLE PERSON: There is a man with a gun!!! Help!! He is scaring people!!

911 DISPATCHER: We are sending somone right away! Please sir/maam just be patient, blah blah blah..

SCARED SEATTLE PERSON: Please hurry, he looks very threatening, we are afraid he may kill somebody!!


This IMO, is very likely the type of phone call some terrified liberal, East-Coast/Californian transplant in Seattle will make and more likely than not, the Seattle PD will take the call as "man with gun, threatening people." And, not be able to discern immediately that the nervous person making the call actually doesn't understand open carry laws or the fact that the person with the gun on his hip is just peacefully exercising his 2A rights. Once Seattle PD gets there, probably all pumped up themselves, well only God knows what happens next. I'd rather not take my chances. More power to you if you carry in Pike's Place! I just hope you don't get greeted by a nervous rookie who received the wrong message from his dispatch.

99 out of 100 times you may be fine with your open carry and that dispatcher might just laugh off the terrified person on the phone, as well, gee he is just "open carrying". However, it only takes one misunderstanding to get you put into a bodybag. And like silicosys says, there is no telling if some of the officer involved shootings were actually cover ups of a law abiding citizen being shot for merely displaying a firearm, which was perceived as a false threat. If a police officer shoots an openly armed person on the street, who are the courts going to believe in most cases anyhow? What's to stop some officer on the hotseat from saying he was reaching for his gun, especially if he was a attending a "Dangerous Man With A Gun" call in a big city, where these calls could be quite legitimate.

Fair enough, I am certainly in error on that one.
However, the stadium district of Tacoma is not downtown Seattle.

Yeah, don't compare Tacoma to Seattle, apples and oranges.. Tacoma also has one of the highest rates of gun ownership, so I have been told, in the Northwest. Tacoma is a much more gun friendly town than Seattle.. Just look at the large number of gun stores around Tacoma and the South Sound and the fact you have two gun ranges a short drive from the city.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Navy, thanks for clearing up the CPL thingy.. I was being lazy and didn't bother looking at my license expiration date.. I just received a new license from the Sheriff, which they mailed to me in 4 days after I filled out the renewal form.

BTW, CHL, CPL what's the difference?? Geez The only real difference is a CWP/CWL where you are allowed to conceal other weapons than a handgun/pistol, which is not allowed in Washington. I guess the only difference i can think of off the top of my head is that an AR-15 Pistol isn't really referred to as an AR-15 handgun, but, technically, is there a difference in the government's eyes?



Here's a much more likely, real-life scenario of a guy open carrying in a place like Wallingford or Fremont in Seattle.

SCARED SEATTLE PERSON: There is a man with a gun!!! Help!! He is scaring people!!

911 DISPATCHER: We are sending somone right away! Please sir/maam just be patient, blah blah blah..

SCARED SEATTLE PERSON: Please hurry, he looks very threatening, we are afraid he may kill somebody!!


This IMO, is very likely the type of phone call some terrified liberal, East-Coast/Californian transplant in Seattle will make and more likely than not, the Seattle PD will take the call as "man with gun, threatening people." And, not be able to discern immediately that the nervous person making the call actually doesn't understand open carry laws or the fact that the person with the gun on his hip is just peacefully exercising his 2A rights. Once Seattle PD gets there, probably all pumped up themselves, well only God knows what happens next. I'd rather not take my chances. More power to you if you carry in Pike's Place! I just hope you don't get greeted by a nervous rookie who received the wrong message from his dispatch.

99 out of 100 times you may be fine with your open carry and that dispatcher might just laugh off the terrified person on the phone, as well, gee he is just "open carrying". However, it only takes one misunderstanding to get you put into a bodybag. And like silicosys says, there is no telling if some of the officer involved shootings were actually cover ups of a law abiding citizen being shot for merely displaying a firearm, which was perceived as a false threat. If a police officer shoots an openly armed person on the street, who are the courts going to believe in most cases anyhow? What's to stop some officer on the hotseat from saying he was reaching for his gun, especially if he was a attending a "Dangerous Man With A Gun" call in a big city, where these calls could be quite legitimate.


Yeah, don't compare Tacoma to Seattle, apples and oranges.. Tacoma also has one of the highest rates of gun ownership, so I have been told, in the Northwest. Tacoma is a much more gun friendly town than Seattle.. Just look at the large number of gun stores around Tacoma and the South Sound and the fact you have two gun ranges a short drive from the city.

I would just as soon the Seattle cops not know that I have weapon. As you say, some of them are not trained very well. They keep shooting people when they don't need to.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Upon what do you base this assertion? My experience has been the same as Navy’s. I have carried openly in Seattle, Bellevue, and Tacoma (including up on Hilltop) with no drama for many years.

I guess we must be doing it wrong, Mainsail.... Maybe we aren't carrying it "open" enough? Like these guys.... downtown Seattle with then WA State Attorney General Rob McKenna:



I am in photo #5 here...downtown Seattle....middle of an anti-gun rally

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/slide...061.php?&_suid=139526209761807789556210265722

 

[silicosys4]

I guess we must be doing it wrong, Mainsail.... Maybe we aren't carrying it "open" enough? Like these guys.... downtown Seattle with then WA State Attorney General Rob McKenna:



I am in photo #5 here...downtown Seattle....middle of an anti-gun rally

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/slide...061.php?&_suid=139526209761807789556210265722

You were a well dressed man standing at an anti gun rally, and those guys were beside a prominent politician, surrounded by LE.
Neither represents a standard instance of everyday open carry. I'm glad it works for you but I don't think you can argue that you and they are going to make the same impression as, say, a 22 year old in ripped jeans and a tshirt does in the eyes of an ignorant citizen or rookie officer responding to an irrational "man with a gun" call.

You do make a good point though, if I open carry I should wear khakis, probably shave, and call and see if McKenna is in town to walk me through Seattle.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Neither represents a standard instance of everyday open carry.

and neither do the handful of horror stories about cops shooting or even just harassing citizens with guns. For every case of a negative open carry encounter there are thousands of "man-days" (1 person x 1 day) that go by where, if there are any encounters at all, they are positive encounters.

The standard instance of every day open carry is that nobody will notice or at least act like they don't notice.

 

[silicosys4]

and neither do the handful of horror stories about cops shooting or even just harassing citizens with guns. For every case of a negative open carry encounter there are thousands of "man-days" (1 person x 1 day) that go by where, if there are any encounters at all, they are positive encounters.

The standard instance of every day open carry is that nobody will notice or at least act like they don't notice.

And where do you get the information, other than from your own and mainsails testimonies, that can substantiate that?
I would like to see that breakdown of exactly how many hours of open carry have resulted in negative experiences vs positive in the Seattle area, and particularly downtown, the U district, Lakewood, and Bellevue.
I don't suppose it can be broken down demographically?


I do know that the Seattle PD has had numerous citations for excessive use of force and have had more than one unjustified shooting recently, and that in my thousands of hours in Seattle I have yet to see anyone open carrying. But then again, I have not gone to any specifically gun oriented events, or posed with Rob McKenna.

 

[Mainsail]

Here's a much more likely, real-life scenario of a guy open carrying in a place like Wallingford or Fremont in Seattle.

SCARED SEATTLE PERSON: There is a man with a gun!!! Help!! He is scaring people!!

Lol

That happened to me almost verbatim. I was walking in Wright Park one Sunday morning after breakfast and some semi-hysterical woman was hissing almost exactly that into her phone. “He has a gun right out in the open! ….but he’s carrying it in the open! ….but…”

The dispatcher was telling her they wouldn’t be sending anyone and she was not happy. That is one of two negative encounters I’ve ever had with the general public in almost ten years of open carry in Seattle, Tacoma, and everywhere else in WA. The other was a lady who wanted to debate firearms ownership- she believed only the police and military should be able to own a gun. Walked right up to me in the coffee shop and started chatting. Wasn’t afraid or nervous, just didn’t want to see another side other than her own. Kinda like here….

And where do you get the information, other than from your own and mainsails testimonies, that can substantiate that.

There’s a whole forum dedicated to open carry. It’s gotten pretty dull over there nowadays, what with the cops behaving themselves and all.

 

[NavyLCDR]

And where do you get the information, other than from your own and mainsails testimonies, that can substantiate that?

The only thing I have to substantiate my statement that open carry is not a problem in Seattle is the real life experiences of myself and several friends and acquaintances who have open carried for years without a problem.

You mention my friend John Laigaie whom received the $15,000 from Bellingham from his police harassment. Well, guess what....he has open carried for years as well, in a previously very firearms unfriendly city...and had this one incident. So, I have to ask....what is his normal daily experience? The thousands of days that he has open carried with the only encounters being positive...or the one day with the bad cop?

 

[hartcreek]

What makes you think that the states Attorney General Rates police protection? I was in the local Star Rental with Sid Morrison BS ing about snowblowers as we had both bought the same model the last two available at that time and he had no law Enforcement guarding him.

 

[Field Tester]

My mistake, the city of discussion was Seattle and the surrounding areas, so I thought I read Bellevue
Do you feel better now that you have picked that nit?
Done here though, since its apparent that you feel that your experiences are representative of everyone's, and you assert one thing; open carry is no issue...then you give examples that support the opposite....your friends' harassment and the ongoing need for police retraining to respect open carry.
While that indicates that Seattle is grudgingly moving towards being friendly to open carry, it is most certainly not there yet, despite your assertions otherwise.
Thank you for your efforts in promoting open carry.

Seattle Police just shot and killed two men two months ago for "waving a gun".
http://www.king5.com/news/crime/BRE...ting-officer-involved-shooting-241235721.html

The suspect who was shot by Seattle Police Monday night in SODO has died. He is 36-year-old Andrew Law, who was waving a gun, according to police.

"The Seattle Police Department said there were multiple reports of a man waving a gun near a bus stop. When officers arrived, they said the man refused to give up the gun. An officer armed with a rifle shot the suspect.
Law was the second suspect to be shot by Seattle Police in a 36-hour period.
On Sunday morning, Seattle Police shot a man who was flashing a gun in Belltown.
The officer-involved shootings will be investigated in a new way, starting this year."

So it seems they are not all that tolerant at the sight of a gun. Two men shot within 36 hrs for "flashing" a gun. SHOWING A GUN. Yet you say open carry will pose no problems? For all we know those were both situations of open carry that were handled inappropriately by all involved and unfortunately escalated.

Showing a gun in Seattle WILL get you unwanted attention more often than not.

Waving a gun according to police...
Waving a gun

 

[taliv]

thanks again for all the info guys. let's not get carried away about OC here

 

[NavyLCDR]

thanks again for all the info guys. let's not get carried away about OC here

But its always so much fun!

 

[R.Greene]

Fair enough, I am certainly in error on that one.
However, the stadium district of Tacoma is not downtown Seattle.
If you can open carry through downtown Seattle as a younger male wearing casual clothes and not be harassed, I would be very, very surprised. I'm there a few times a week and Its not a common sight. I have never seen open carry in Seattle and I know I've never run into any of the Seattle open carriers posting here, lol. IMO The two positive firsthand experiences posted here does not trump years of documented continuing problems with Seattle PD overreacting to perceived threats, and the negative firsthand experiences I have heard from others concerning open carry.
I'm also not a retired gentleman wearing a navy cap...who might get more leeway from LE. So I guess that means I will be open carrying through downtown Seattle this Friday, I'm interested in seeing if Seattle has indeed become open carry friendly. BTW "friendly" to me does not mean having to constantly walk away from police wishing to detain me to talk to me about my open carrying.

Please let us know how it goes, I'm interested to see what you run into!

 

[Mainsail]

Fair enough, I am certainly in error on that one.
However, the stadium district of Tacoma is not downtown Seattle.

Missed this comment.

I lived in Stadium, so I open carried there every single day for like five years. I also visited Seattle a LOT, went to the REI flagship store, Utilikilts, Pike Place, Ferry Terminal & ferry, Cheesecake Factory- everywhere- no problems. I walked by dozens of police officers- no problems.

Who is telling you otherwise?

 

[Catshooter]

I don't think y'all are going to change his mind that OC is scary/dangerous in Seattle. He knows what he knows and isn't willing to be confused by facts and photos.

In all the years I lived in Washington OC was 'legal' alright, but you were nuts if you tried it, especially in Seattle. It is awesome that you guys have changed that! Well done.

Evergreen,

Washington is not the easiest state to get a permit for states that issue them. I lived there for many years and was quite used to/brainwashed to think so also.

Then I moved to South Dakota. Ha! Walk in to the courthouse, pay the Sherriff $10 (!) and walk out in five minutes with your permit. No fingerprints and they do the background check later.

In Washington you are treated like a criminal. Here it is assumed you are an upright citizen and there is no reason to deny you one.

And the big difference between concealed weapon carry permit and concealed pistol permit is knives my friend.


Cat