modifiedbrowning
Member
There is also the Robinson M-96 Cali version. More expensive, though.
http://www.robarm.com/mainpage.htm
http://www.robarm.com/mainpage.htm
Self defense rifle for Urban Environment?
- Thread starter Larryect
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Nightcrawler
Member
If you want something a little heavier, consdier a DSA California FAL.
These have fixed 10-round magazines and need to be reloaded from stripper clips. An M1A will let you use regular detachable box magazines, though.
However, the FAL offers a sweetness all it's own. PLUS, (and this is so cool) if you're worried about overpenetration with the powerful .308 round, consider the following:
BOOM! .243 caliber. Soft shooting, high velocity, fragmentation and such, stomps .223 ballistically. 16" or 19" barrels available. TAPCO offers a stripper-clip-guide top-cover-scope-mount device if you want optics.
These have fixed 10-round magazines and need to be reloaded from stripper clips. An M1A will let you use regular detachable box magazines, though.
However, the FAL offers a sweetness all it's own. PLUS, (and this is so cool) if you're worried about overpenetration with the powerful .308 round, consider the following:
BOOM! .243 caliber. Soft shooting, high velocity, fragmentation and such, stomps .223 ballistically. 16" or 19" barrels available. TAPCO offers a stripper-clip-guide top-cover-scope-mount device if you want optics.
Nightcrawler
Member
Another option to consider might be THIS offering from Remington.
Remington 7615LE pump rifle, caliber .223
For heavier hitting, they offer a .308 version, but you're limited to 4+1 capacity. I believe somebody out there makes 10-round Remington mags, don't know how well they work. Eagle, I think. Yes, clear plastic 10-round mags.
Remington 7615LE pump rifle, caliber .223
For heavier hitting, they offer a .308 version, but you're limited to 4+1 capacity. I believe somebody out there makes 10-round Remington mags, don't know how well they work. Eagle, I think. Yes, clear plastic 10-round mags.
cslinger
Member
M1A Squad Scout. Short enough to be handy. Easy mounts for tactical doodads and sights etc. It's going to be a bit over your budget but really is the best darn rifle you are going to get in California, actually it is pretty darn good rifle wherever you live.
My two cents.
Chris
My two cents.
Chris
MachIVshooter
Member
I love my AR-10 Carbine, but I don't think they are kommifornia friendly. Perhaps a standard AR-10A2 would fit the bill?
bernie
Member
I have thought this over for my family and have made my decision. I am not in an urban area, but do have neighbors. I will be using a "Trapper" Winchester 94 .44 magnum and have used it for a while. After this New Orleans fiasco, I realized I did not have a longarm for my wife in a similar situation. She is 5'2" and 100 lbs soaking wet. I opted for the same thing that I will be using in .357 (same caliber as her sidearm).
This will be a fine combination in my mind. It will suffice even though it may not be tacticool.
This will be a fine combination in my mind. It will suffice even though it may not be tacticool.
cslinger
Member
We tend to get hung up on what to choose for the bad stuff but in reality time and again it has shown that having a hundred or so rounds and any gun that you can shoot well and that functions as required seems to be all you need. Tyically it seems that once you show the rioters or predators that you have teeth they tend to head for the hills and look for easier prey.
Case in point, I think Bernie's setup is a marvelous one. A couple of lever guns with sidearms in the same caliber.
In all honesty I would be willing to bet a double barrel shotgun with a hundred rounds of buckshot would work just fine.
That being said a fully tricked out locked and loaded ARAKFALCOOLMAGFEDTACTICOOL Rifle will probably give you all the capability you would ever possibly need with just the magazine in the gun. Now I am not sayin you shouldn't have extra ammo and magazines I am just saying that my guess is that 20 - 30 rounds would go a long way to turning around your average low life looter, predator whether they are grouped or not.
I personally am not looking to kill anybody nor am I looking to be able to Rambo around "cleaning up the city" I would just be looking at protecting me and mine and turning the coyotes away.
My two cents.
Chris
Case in point, I think Bernie's setup is a marvelous one. A couple of lever guns with sidearms in the same caliber.
In all honesty I would be willing to bet a double barrel shotgun with a hundred rounds of buckshot would work just fine.
That being said a fully tricked out locked and loaded ARAKFALCOOLMAGFEDTACTICOOL Rifle will probably give you all the capability you would ever possibly need with just the magazine in the gun. Now I am not sayin you shouldn't have extra ammo and magazines I am just saying that my guess is that 20 - 30 rounds would go a long way to turning around your average low life looter, predator whether they are grouped or not.
I personally am not looking to kill anybody nor am I looking to be able to Rambo around "cleaning up the city" I would just be looking at protecting me and mine and turning the coyotes away.
My two cents.
Chris
Mute- Correct on the 30-30 lever gun. Cheap ( last one cost me all of a C-note), low profile, awesome ergonomics for snap shooting, PLENTY of power for two legged predators and more money for practice ammo. "What, this? -Oh, this is my Deer rifle..." plus a 16"er with the stock off fits in a really small gym bag.
For $200 I would have my beater '94 in a gym bag, a couple of boxes of ammo and change in my pocket.
For $200 I would have my beater '94 in a gym bag, a couple of boxes of ammo and change in my pocket.
SamlautRanger
member
Get a good lever action rifle in 30-30, 44, or 357. Get some ghost ring sights for it, get a good sling, add a buttstock amo holder. IF you really want to tactical it up, get a scout mount rail for it and put a red dot scope on it.
Larryect
Member
Thanks for all the input. I liked the Kel-Tec and put the money on it today. Light weight, storage of magazines in the stock, built in bipod. 
My understanding of the current CA laws is that AR's and AK's with all their different versions are not legal. Unless already registered.
I was going back and forth between .223 and the 7.62. Just decided to pick one. M1A was relly cool - but twice the price
Now I need a good supply of .223
My understanding of the current CA laws is that AR's and AK's with all their different versions are not legal. Unless already registered.
I was going back and forth between .223 and the 7.62. Just decided to pick one. M1A was relly cool - but twice the price
Now I need a good supply of .223
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
I think the SKS is the best deal for your situation, though the Kel-Tec is nice if you have the money and time to spend on it. The great thing about the SKS is you would be able to buy both the gun and several thousand rounds of ammo and still have money left over for some quality training.
Formal training + any reliable rifle will get you a long ways.
M1As would be an attractive alternative for CA; but there is going to be extra cost there as well as extra recoil and penetration. The penetration can be a good or bad thing in an urban area.
You might want to consider whether you are anticipating a need for rapid follow-up shots. If so, the intermediate calibers will have a noticeable edge in this department.
Formal training + any reliable rifle will get you a long ways.
M1As would be an attractive alternative for CA; but there is going to be extra cost there as well as extra recoil and penetration. The penetration can be a good or bad thing in an urban area.
You might want to consider whether you are anticipating a need for rapid follow-up shots. If so, the intermediate calibers will have a noticeable edge in this department.
Thin Black Line
Member
The lever action idea was good. You can reload while on the move and
still keep a round chambered. Unfortunately, you can't top-off with
the fixed-mag semi autos. The lever action would be a good balance
of features while still staying legal in your state.
As far as the shotgun --why not some ghost ring sights and slugs
out to 100 yds? Just takes some practice and you'll easily keep it
on the pie pan.
But it's very likely you're not going to have much engagement with
anything beyond buckshot distance in the urban scenario you're
concerned about. Make sure you have a 3-day pack of food and
water.....and good pairs of boots for you and your wife in case
you guys need to flee. Yes, flee. Weigh your risks of facing
30 gang members who are equally armed when you might be the
only people there to face them. Consider what happens when
you don't see them after the first few shots and then have
some molotovs tossed against your house....
You'll know you've reached "help" when the police are around to
disarm you guys and hand you MREs.
After things
have calmed down, you can return home, collect what remains,
and move away from CA.
still keep a round chambered. Unfortunately, you can't top-off with
the fixed-mag semi autos. The lever action would be a good balance
of features while still staying legal in your state.
As far as the shotgun --why not some ghost ring sights and slugs
out to 100 yds? Just takes some practice and you'll easily keep it
on the pie pan.
But it's very likely you're not going to have much engagement with
anything beyond buckshot distance in the urban scenario you're
concerned about. Make sure you have a 3-day pack of food and
water.....and good pairs of boots for you and your wife in case
you guys need to flee. Yes, flee. Weigh your risks of facing
30 gang members who are equally armed when you might be the
only people there to face them. Consider what happens when
you don't see them after the first few shots and then have
some molotovs tossed against your house....
You'll know you've reached "help" when the police are around to
disarm you guys and hand you MREs.
After things have calmed down, you can return home, collect what remains,
and move away from CA.
My 2cents (again)...
Most of these types who are causing the problems have no stomach for a fight. The are plain and simple opportunists. Drop one and the rest will scatter like the roaches they are. Anyone with some plinking in their past, some USPSA experience, some DCM or Military shooting experience, etc etc will outshoot these freaks. Make an example of one.
I think rule #1 is in full effect here folks...HAVE A GUN.
Most of these types who are causing the problems have no stomach for a fight. The are plain and simple opportunists. Drop one and the rest will scatter like the roaches they are. Anyone with some plinking in their past, some USPSA experience, some DCM or Military shooting experience, etc etc will outshoot these freaks. Make an example of one.
I think rule #1 is in full effect here folks...HAVE A GUN.
Larryect
Member
Agreed, first rule - have a gun. And, I have a few. But, at least this was a chance to add to the collection with a .223.
It is hard to imagine having to pull-out of my area. Our biggest concern would be earthquake or fire, then maybe a terrorist attack. An earthquake could cause damage to the house, interupt utilities etc. I would not expect a complete collapse and I have a RV parked outside. Now, partial destruction could happen. Worst case - house collapses onto the RV. But I still see my own provisions to be my best resource as I have water and food available. And, it does not freeze here.
I consider it very improbable for a wildfire to get to me. Possibly a local fire - neighbors house, my own etc. In which case my emergency would not disrupt society.
Terrorist attack - if I need to leave the area. Hopefully I load up the RV. If the roads are out - whole other problem. Possibly shelter in-place.
It is hard to imagine having to pull-out of my area. Our biggest concern would be earthquake or fire, then maybe a terrorist attack. An earthquake could cause damage to the house, interupt utilities etc. I would not expect a complete collapse and I have a RV parked outside. Now, partial destruction could happen. Worst case - house collapses onto the RV. But I still see my own provisions to be my best resource as I have water and food available. And, it does not freeze here.
I consider it very improbable for a wildfire to get to me. Possibly a local fire - neighbors house, my own etc. In which case my emergency would not disrupt society.
Terrorist attack - if I need to leave the area. Hopefully I load up the RV. If the roads are out - whole other problem. Possibly shelter in-place.
8040Cougar
Member
I think you made a good choice, but I would have looked at Beretta's Cx4 carbine in 9, 40, or 45. Very accurate up to 100 yd.s and easy to mount optis, lights, and lasers on. You dont need more than that for urban defense IMHO.
odysseus
Member
I thought the SKS rifles in Cali had to have fixed magazines to be legal for purchase? Not sure.
Anyway if I were in your situation, I would certainly consider the m14/m1a, maybe in the Scout model for easier handling and flexible options on mounting optics. The .308 is a versatile round, and the m1a has a lot of gear you can buy for it. Also, no fixed mag - so you can carry and reload more easily. Although it's still 10 rounds (stupidly) in Cali, unless you had them before the ban, if you ever move out of Cali you can get real capacity mags and not be stuck with a "fixed" mag solution rifle.
Anyway if I were in your situation, I would certainly consider the m14/m1a, maybe in the Scout model for easier handling and flexible options on mounting optics. The .308 is a versatile round, and the m1a has a lot of gear you can buy for it. Also, no fixed mag - so you can carry and reload more easily. Although it's still 10 rounds (stupidly) in Cali, unless you had them before the ban, if you ever move out of Cali you can get real capacity mags and not be stuck with a "fixed" mag solution rifle.
ftierson
Member.
Especially in your location, I agree with those suggesting that a M94 Winchester carbine is a great choice. bernie suggests a Trapper in .44Mag., and that would be my top choice too. Not only that, but it's neighbor friendly (after all, it's just one of those 'ole cowboy guns and all...).
If not in the PRK, then there are any number of top quality semis, including the FAL, AK, AR and M1 platforms...
Forrest
If not in the PRK, then there are any number of top quality semis, including the FAL, AK, AR and M1 platforms...
Forrest
DHart
Member
I vote for Winchester 94 Trapper in .45 Colt or .44 mag and a good 12 ga. pump shotty like the Mossberg 500 "Persuader" along with some good revos and semi-autos (1911's, Hi-Powers, etc.). I also think a Beretta Storm in 9mm, .40, or .45 acp would be very good. I like short long arms that shoot handgun ammo... very versatile and effective for close range defense use! Think about New Orleans... it doesn't take much to throw us back to the stoneage!
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