semi or revolver

[Revolver Ocelot]

I know the title implies the age old debate, but frankly I couldn't think of anything more eloquent to title it.

As my user name would imply, I am a revolver guy, I literally have one semi auto to my name wich is a cz 75 sp-01 tactical (and my wife being the opposite with all semi's and one revolver).

I bought the cz because I believe no one could go wrong having a semi auto for that worst case scenario where more rounds on tap would be of bennifit. But I find that shooting a semi auto feels somehow unnatural to me. When I pick up a revolver it just feels like an extension of my arm and just points so naturally while the semi autos I have to put more effort into lining up the sights on target. I feel that in a defensive scenario having to put that much more effort into getting the gun to work for you could be of disservice.

So that brings me to my question, I have been considering doing more self defense classes, and am debating should I train more into revolvers and put semi's behind me (in which case my wife who is rooting for it will run off with my cz). Or should I spend my time and money into learning to use a semi more effectively?

Any thoughts on the matter are appreciated.

 

[tarosean]

I would just take the classes your interested in with your revolver (s). Your more comfortable and more proficient with them. Invest in speedloaders or moon clips and have at it.

 

[bannockburn]

I would say go with whatever gun you feel most comfortable with using. In your case I think you should stick to your guns, literally, and do your classes with a revolver.

 

[olderguns]

I have a few auto's but I shoot revolvers much much better, so give her the one she likes and you stick to the ones you 're better with

 

[SC Shooter]

The other side

I tend to be more on the semi side although I do have a couple of revolvers. I love my Browing Hi-Power for it quality and accuracy, but my favorite is my Mackarov 9x18mm. It's good at the range, and is a great carry weapon. It feels good in your hand and good on your hip.

Go with your comfort level.

 

[HexHead]

If you feel you need more rounds, use a NY Reload. Carry two revolvers, it's faster than Speedloaders.

 

[MrDig]

There is a third option, train up with the CZ and get more comfortable with it and then give it to your wife because she likes it.
"Honey I'm going to use your gun for awhile because I want to be good at multiple platforms, If I ever need to use your gun after that I will know it better and be ore comfortable with it."

You will have skills with two platforms and a happy bride, win win.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

If you're comfortable with and shoot your revolvers better than other guns, that's fine. I see no reason to give up the CZ though, unless you really just hate it.

 

[Old Fuff]

I am hard put to find examples where a civilian (as opposed to law enforcement officers) get into shooting incidents where a reload is necessary.

If your wife likes the CZ (which in my opinion is a fine pistol) let her have it, and on your part stick with revolvers unless you find another pistol that you really like and do well with.

A top quality hand-ejector revolver is reliable, and not ammunition dependent when it comes to functioning. It can be fired from any position without hitting one with hot ejecting brass. Limp wristing malfunctions are not an issue. They are absolutely safe to carry without any worries about manual safeties. Unlike some sub-compact pistols short barrels do not compromise reliability.

But since "spray & pray" style shooting isn't an option, marksmanship skills are important. Therefore go to school and master them.

(The Old Fuff will now run to get into his bunker... )

 

[BlindJustice]

Q for the O.P.

What kind of revolvers do you have or
consider for a def. pistol class?

FWIW I shoot a S&W 625 .45 ACP and a S&W 60 3" .357 Mag
love em, but also very much like my CZ 75B as well as a 1911

R-

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

I see no reason to give up the CZ though, unless you really just hate it

I actually am quite fond of the cz, even if for nothing more than a range pistol. That being said though, my wife has been begging me for one, so if forking it over will make her happy then so be it, besides, it's not like I'll never see it again.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Give it to the wife and earn yourself some brownie points. Those come in handy more than a weapon would anyway, I hope.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

Give it to the wife and earn yourself some brownie points. Those come in handy more than a weapon would anyway, I hope.

My wife has more guns than I do, (the first one I got her being a colt gold cup) I would think I'd be maxed out on brownie points by now, but who knows.

If I give her the cz (which she wants to shoot uspsa with it) I'll probably send off my gp100 to Gemini to get the same treatment my sp101 got, I think it'd make a nice pair for a new York reload.

Now I'd just have to figure out how to reasonably carry both at the same time...

 

[easyg]

while the semi autos I have to put more effort into lining up the sights on target. I feel that in a defensive scenario having to put that much more effort into getting the gun to work for you could be of disservice.

Maybe you just have the wrong auto.

Some autos point very naturally for me.
Others not so much.
Glocks point high for me, and so I have to align the sights.
But XD's point right on target every time.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

my issues with sight alignment are probably due to my grip, or possibly the sites them selves being too distracting (3 dot sights). I don't seem to have a problem with the vertical alignment, just the side to side. When I draw the pistol and take my time I have little issue, it's when I try to do it with any speed I find my sight alignment gets jacked up and I end up with a grip more appropriate for a revolver on it, just muscle memory I guess.

I'm sure this is something I could train myself out of with out (hopefully) hurting my abilities with a revolver, but that leaves me to think the time I spend learning to use a semi could just as well be used to become better with a revolver.

 

[Bob M.]

I actually am quite fond of the cz, even if for nothing more than a range pistol. That being said though, my wife has been begging me for one, so if forking it over will make her happy then so be it, besides, it's not like I'll never see it again.

That's what I say. It's not like it's going anywhere. That way you both should be happy.

 

[tomrkba]

So that brings me to my question, I have been considering doing more self defense classes, and am debating should I train more into revolvers and put semi's behind me (in which case my wife who is rooting for it will run off with my cz). Or should I spend my time and money into learning to use a semi more effectively?

I know the question pertains to revolver vs semi, but bear with me. Keep in mind that there is only one Jerry Miculek and very few master class revolver competitors. You are likely neither, so it is critical that you learn the techniques correctly in class and practice properly at home. Otherwise, you wasted your money and time. Frequent practice is required and you need to put a lot of rounds through your guns.

I have trained extensively with semi-autos and once with revolvers. Training with N-Frame revolvers was a very different experience. First, ammunition management is critical to avoid slowing down the class. Make sure you have loading blocks for speed loaders and a moon clip tool that loads and unloads clips. I recommend preloading enough moon clips equal to the round count of one day of class (or get 100 from Ranch Products and load all of them). I recommend you take at least 10 speedloaders.

Shooting patterns will be different. You may not be able to shoot as quickly as many semi-auto shooters. Your split times may be much slower, so focus upon accuracy while shooting as quickly as possible. You will be reloading during shot strings while semi-auto shooters continue through. Do not race them and focus upon correctly reloading your revolver.

Make sure to take at least two revolvers of the same frame type and similarly tuned triggers. I had one gun whose trigger stacked and it messed up my rhythm during rapid fire. The stocks should be the same so you do not need to adjust your grip. Get stocks that fit properly (Grant Cunningham covers this topic in The Gun Digest Book of the Revolver). Change put the gun when you can feel the heat through the holster. Your hand that holds the gun though the cylinder area during a reload should have a fingerless glove to prevent burns.

Quality sights are required. There is nothing worse than bringing up the gun and seeing nothing because the front sight disappeared. Make sure you have at least white dots or a gold bead, though night sights with white outlines would be best.

The most difficult aspect of training with a revolver is finding instructors that a proficient in their use in a defensive context. This is not your average instructor. They need to understand the different methods for reloading the guns and managing that trigger. Most guys do not have these skills. There is quite a bit of revolver lore out there, but you will have to work to find it.

Semi-automatics do have the advantage in speed, capacity, and ease of use. A proficient revolver shooter can keep up in speed, as well as time to first shot. However, more training time is required to get there. Many people claim a revolver is easier to use. On the face of it, that is true since anyone can slowly insert cartridges into a cylinder. However, running a revolver is much more complex. The reloads and manipulations are much more complicated to do at speed. Shooting rapidly, while scoring good hits, is difficult. Revolver shooters must practice longer and harder to master these skills. If you are willing to put the time and round count in, then train with them. But, you will advance faster with semi-autos.

 

[420Stainless]

I happen to like both and prefer to carry semi autos for the flat profile. However, you seem to have a strong preference for revolvers and I don't believe you will be underserved with one.

 

[tomrkba]

Some autos point very naturally for me.
Others not so much.
Glocks point high for me, and so I have to align the sights.
But XD's point right on target every time.

How a gun points is not the issue. Using the sights, or figuring out what horizontal means for the gun when point shooting, are the important parts because both override how a gun points. Glocks point very high for me. SIG P-Series guns point just right and 1911 pistols point a bit low. I have never had trouble shooting any of these because I have mastered sight picture and trigger control. Blaming the gun does nothing to improve performance. Master trigger control and sight picture first. Then master recoil management for fast shooting. Questing for the best pointing gun will never solve the problem.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

tomrkba, thanks for the detailed post, I agree with many of the points made. I have what I would feel to be sufficient number of speed loaders, and my reload speeds are about average with most people using semi autos, but that is probably due to a lot of practice with reloads because I have fewer shots so that is indeed a double edged sword.

But the biggest hurdle I have had is as you put it, there are not a lot of instructors out there that are proficient with a revolver. I practice a lot by my standards and don't feel I would practice any more than I do now if I was using a semi, but over the years I have had a preferences and trained into it, and now I find that to move to the next step in training my preference puts me at a disadvantage.

 

[tomrkba]

How many rounds to you shoot a month with an agenda at the range? I found out the hard way that 22 LR does not count due to recoil differences. My guess, from my experience, that this number needs to be close to 500 in order to improve.

I think the revolver is fine for civilian self-defense so long as you use the revolver for its strengths. This means using more powerful calibers such as 357 Magnum, 10mm, 44 Special, 44 Magnum, 454 Casul, 45 Colt, 45 ACP and 45 Auto Rim. The smaller guns have been eclipsed by compact semi-autos that run well. I see no point in limiting myself to five rounds of 38 Special from a 1 7/8 inch barrel when Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 9x19mm JHP exists. 38 Special just doesn't compare well at all. My Glock 19 gets 1150 FPS with 124 grain Gold Dots.

Snubbie revolvers are just too tough to deal with. I do not like shooting my guns with three inch barrels. I do far better with a four inch barrel, and even better with a gun with a five inch barrel. The four inch guns carry well for me, so I prefer those.

If I were going to carry a revolver daily, my primary gun would have the following attributes:

1) 357 Magnum or 44 Magnum caliber.
2) Four inch barrel
3) Herrets Stocks Jordan Troopers cut to boot length. Round butt profile.
4) Night sights
5) Chamfered charge holes
6) Stainless steel frames, no alloys if at all possible
7) Seven or eight shot capacity in 357 Magnum. Six shot capacity is the only viable option in 44 Magnum. I would prefer 357 Magnum due to capacity.
8) Tuned trigger

I would carry Speer Gold Dots in either 44 Special or Magnum because they are tuned for defense.

I think you will do fine if you stick to revolver classes and competitions. Ayoob, De Bethancourt, Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, Sand Burr Gun Ranch and a few others still teach revolver shooting in a defensive context. I would shell out the money for the Thunder Ranch class if I were going to completely switch to revolver for daily carry. I would still attend SouthNarc's ECQC course regardless of platform used (just tell him you will need 38 Special Simunitions). I would also attend "Point Shooting Progressions" with Roger Phillips because it is a MOVEMENT class (moving and shooting is an essential skill).

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

my edc is a 3" sp101 in 357 that has been fine tuned by gemini, and a 4" gp100 on days I can get away with it, though many times I will carry the sp101 even when I could carry the gp just because of the sights in trigger are so much better.

I'm still debating whether to send the gp to Gemini or get an n frame 8 shot to have a revolver before I move forward with anymore classes (leaning towards the gp100), but that is another matter entirely.

Thanks for the tips tomrkba, you are certainly making this feel like switching to revolver exclusively may be accomplishable.

 

[tomrkba]

you are certainly making this feel like switching to revolver exclusively may be accomplishable.

It is a difficult challenge. The wiser move is to go with non-1911 semi-autos, but people used revolvers for a long time in a pre-NFA world. Since your primary adversary is the civilian criminal, the revolver (with backup) should be fine. Always carry two!

As for the GP100, that is a hard call. My main issue with the Rugers is the length of the grip. Herretts needs the gun to fit the stocks. The stocks cost $150+ alone. They will have it for three months or so. If you are going for it, then another GP100 makes more sense. Alternatively, dump the first GP100 and get two pre-LOCK S&W 686+ revolvers. If you prefer N-Frames, then your choices are more limited if you do not like THE LOCK and substandard parts (which is why I use 44's).

Also consider how to carry spare ammo because it is difficult to conceal comfortably. I have switched to SAFARILAND Comp I loaders for 44. I have their #371 split belt holder and it is nice. They offer holders for the Rugers and S&W guns. I get them here:

http://speedloaderstore.com/contents/en-us/d45.html

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

Up until now I have preferred rugers for a number of reasons, I have a few other s&w revolvers but nothing that I feel could serve well as a primary weapon. At this point the gp100 is the best I've got, but I have been leaning towards getting a 627 or 625 (probably 627 because it doesn't have to have moon clips to work). Only thing that bugs me about the ruger over the smith, out of everything is that there are no options for fixed sights unless I hunt down one of the rarer fixed sight 357 models that are no longer made.

 

[tomrkba]

Hmm...I think Bowen has a fixed rear sight. I prefer adjustables since they seem robust enough for EDC.

I would put XS Sights (small dot) on it, chamfer the charge holes, swap the grips, and tune the trigger.

Have you checked out Sand Burr Gun Ranch's gunsmithing services and classes?