semi or revolver

[Revolver Ocelot]

I haven't, I usually get services on my rugers done at Gemini, thus far marc's work has been top notch. I looked at the bowen sights, but the amount of play left in the adjustable sights have left some concern about possibly damaging them in a scuffle. I haven't had an issue with fixed sights at any range under 25 yards yet.

I have some basic machining capabilities at work so I have been playing around with the idea of measuring the dimensions to fill the gap on the op of my gp100 and trying to machine my own sight for it.

I usually get gold dot sights on most all of my guns, I know they aren't for everybody, but they have worked very well for me so far.

 

[tomrkba]

How well do the gold beads work in low light conditions compared to night sights? I have never tried true gold bead sights and I like the idea that it never needs refreshing.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

night sights will always be easier to see at night of course, but as long as you have enough light to identify your target there is enough light for the gold bead.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I say keep it. I traded my AK that I didn't shoot for over 6 months for a S&W586 instead of trading my CZ75B. Now I have two great handguns! I do carry both (just need a new holster for the revolver) and don't feel under equipped at all.

 

[David E]

I found out the hard way that 22 LR does not count due to recoil differences.

Then you should reconsider your practice regimen.

Why would recoil matter at all if you were working to improve the speed of your first shot on target?

The sight picture still needs to be right, the trigger pull still needs to be correct, regardless of recoil.

If a gun is "hard to handle," like a snubby, then lack of recoil can help ingrain proper execution of the basics prior to going to the center fire version.

A .22 isn't a one-to-one substitute for the center fire, but it still counts for something.

 

[David E]

I like the idea that it never needs refreshing.

Refreshing? Like, shining a light on them? If so, time to upgrade!

The better night sights don't need to be refreshed, just replaced every 10-15 years.

The best low light non-glowing sights I've found were made by MMC that had a single, thin white line going up the center. Paired with a white outline rear, it works pretty well.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

The better night sights don't need to be refreshed, just replaced every 10-15 years.

I think that's what he meant when he said they need to be refreshed, unless you are being sarcastic.

 

[David E]

I think that's what he meant when he said they need to be refreshed, unless you are being sarcastic.

No, I've seen quite a few folks with "night sights" that had to be charged with a flashlight first.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

really? I suppose someone out there has probably painted their sights with glow paint but, it just seems so lazy.

 

[mavracer]

Yes really
http://www.nitesiters.com/Nitesiters_Handgun_Night_Sights.html

 

[jim243]

Some night sights need to be recharged before use like those that come on the Beretta PX4 Storm, some have a radioactive element in a tube like those found on the Kimber 1911's. Both work just differently.

The single issue as I see it is that the grips and hand holds are substantially different on a revolver than a pistol. Trying to be a master of both I feel will mess you up. Learning a new system of gripping and shooting at this point I think would be counter productive. Unless that is your objective.

There is a reason revolver shooters like and stick with revolvers. As a semi-auto (pistol) shooter for over 40 years, I can use a revolver but not as well as a pistol. Some people fish with fly rods, not me I use spinning rods, they just work better for me.

I would give up the SP-01 to the little lady and get yourself a CZ 75 B full size for range shooting. The grip on that gun is fantastic as far as I am concerned. (molded right to the hand)

This is just my view on these posts, you need to use what you are most comfortable with.
Jim

 

[javjacob]

im a revolver guy. actually cant stand pistols. revolvers are better looking, simple, reliable and durable. you don't have to worry about the gun jamming ect. also the most powerful hand guns are revolvers.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

Yes really

wow, that makes me sad, I can't see myself pulling a pistol from a holster where it has been shielded from light all day and telling the perp hold on a sec while I recharge my night sights. but I guess there is something for everyone.

I would give up the SP-01 to the little lady and get yourself a CZ 75 B full size for range shooting. The grip on that gun is fantastic as far as I am concerned. (molded right to the hand)

The all cz 75 sp-01's are full size, I think you may be confusing it with the p-01. My issue isn't with the size of the gun, but rather comfort level between revolver and semi.

 

[MattShlock]

Keep the CZ (nice gun!) and practice with a revolver.

 

[tomrkba]

The better night sights don't need to be refreshed, just replaced every 10-15 years.

I have many guns with Trijicon night sights and replacing them at $110 installed is expensive. Leave it to a forum to divert into a conversation about cheap sights when I specifically mentioned XS Sights for revolvers

RE: Recoil

The problem are the split times for double taps, Hearts and Minds, and Zippers. 22 LR trains the shooter for...rapid fire with 22 LR. It may benefit the shooter with light 38 Special, but did nothing for me in class with full 38 Special, 357 Magnum and 45 ACP. The point is that there is no slide and spring to assist with recoil along with a short reset on a lighter trigger. The trigger's return affects the next shot and must be done as the gun settles back into position. The heavy pull must be started immediately and in such a way as to not disturb sight alignment at the critical moment. Cunningham documents this in his book. Doing otherwise means the shooter is doing a controlled pair. I generally get from .23-.33 seconds between shots with a revolver and consistently do .15-.18 with a Glock. I figure in 500,000 rounds I will be 1/4 as good as Mr. Miculek, which is likely more than enough for most fights. I really need to attend one of his classes.

 

[tomrkba]

BTW, I dislike the CZ pistols. I had too many jams with the two 75 B's I tried. The Kadet was worthless.

 

[Old Fuff]

I generally get from .23-.33 seconds between shots with a revolver ...

Boy!!! Am I impressed. That's 3 or 4 shots in one second give or take, and I suppose it includes recovery time between shots. I presume you are using center fire cartridges that offer serious performance to boot. What distance and what does the target look like? Can you do it one-handed?

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

Keep the CZ (nice gun!) and practice with a revolver.

regardless of the outcome the cz will stay in this home, the wife and I both like, I just don't like it for what I bought it for. Worst that will happen is my wife will be able to call it hers and I will have a new revolver.

 

[orionengnr]

I think you have gotten some very good advice, and an affirmation of your "handle".

I know I learned something from reading this thread, if only to confirm what I "thought" I knew.

I love my revolvers, but I am not really comfortable unless I have my M57 or M25...and then I'm uncomfortable (in a whole different way, but you got that already, or will when you pass 55 and your third spine surgery). Ah, to be young again.

So I carry what I shoot best--a 1911, but a Scandium framed 4"er, to make some of the weight disappear. FWIW, I've tried the Scandium framed revolvers, and they are a wonder, but my wrists can't deal with .357 Mag recoil from a 13-oz j-frame, and even the 325 is a lot less pleasant than a similarly weighted 1911.

Thanks to TomRKBA and Old Fuff--very well written posts.

 

[Steve CT]

I own more revolvers than pistols, and I generally like shooting revolvers more than semi auto pistols.

If I'm ever in a situation that I really need a handgun, it's most likely going to be a HiCap 9 mm that I'm reaching for. At that point in time, it's a numbers game, and 14+1 in 9 mm pretty much beats anything else I own.

 

[tomrkba]

Boy!!! Am I impressed. That's 3 or 4 shots in one second give or take, and I suppose it includes recovery time between shots. I presume you are using center fire cartridges that offer serious performance to boot. What distance and what does the target look like? Can you do it one-handed?

No, that stinks and it's minute of small paper plate (6-8 inches) at 21 feet with standard 38 Special. I occasionally throw shots out due to trigger reset issues. I tend toward the high end, though sometimes I have a good day.

I'll take the timer to the range and see what I can do with the TRR8 with 38 and 357. Hopefully I'll get the S&W Model 29 back soon...that'll be fun with long times between shots. Remington UMC 180 grain will throw some nice orange fireballs.

 

[tomrkba]

So I carry what I shoot best--a 1911, but a Scandium framed 4"er, to make some of the weight disappear. FWIW, I've tried the Scandium framed revolvers, and they are a wonder, but my wrists can't deal with .357 Mag recoil from a 13-oz j-frame, and even the 325 is a lot less pleasant than a similarly weighted 1911.

Yeah, I dislike the high recoil rounds from the J-Frames and even Ruger SP-101. It's just not fun any more. Even 44 Magnum isn't much fun for me. I much prefer a gun with five inch barrel (four is a compromise) in a smaller caliber.

 

[David E]

I have many guns with Trijicon night sights and replacing them at $110 installed is expensive. Leave it to a forum to divert into a conversation about cheap sights when I specifically mentioned XS Sights for revolvers

It was your phrase "recharge the night sights" that struck me.

RE: Recoil

The problem are the split times for double taps, Hearts and Minds, and Zippers. 22 LR trains the shooter for...rapid fire with 22. I generally get from .23-.33 seconds between shots with a revolver

What are your splits with a .22 revolver vs a .357?

and consistently do .15-.18 with a Glock.

Compared to what with a .22?

I specifically said a .22 isn't exactly the same as a center fire, but its far from worthless as you said.

 

[tomrkba]

I specifically said a .22 isn't exactly the same as a center fire, but its far from worthless as you said.

You have expanded the context beyond my intention. The 22 LR is fine for general practice. However, it is not useful for training high speed shooting with the revolver. It is good to start with because you will learn trigger control and reset. However, the recoil differences between rimfire and center fire cartridges is such that center fire practice is required. There is almost no overlap. I know this because I trained for a year on 22's and it did not translate to center fire shooting.

I don't spend range time like most folks either. I generally build an agenda based upon task and set a round count for it. I repeat that until I see improvement. I did quite a bit of research trying to figure out what the revolver needs for high performance shooting. Most of it is high round count, but some techniques certainly help. My personal next step is to attend a *shooting* handgun course under a revolver instructor. My last attempt with a revolver involved an instructor who knew only semi-autos in a defensive context and didn't have the revolver shooting lore that is being lost.

What are your splits with a .22 revolver vs a .357?

Good question...I never checked my performance with the K18 or 617. I shoot both quite fast.

I probably just need to go find an IPSC or ICORE match somewhere. I bet some of the revolver shooters can clear up a few things for me.

 

[David E]

The 22 LR is fine for general practice. However, it is not useful for training high speed shooting with the revolver. It is good to start with because you will learn trigger control and reset.

Then it's useful!

However, the recoil differences between rimfire and center fire cartridges is such that center fire practice is required.

Of course it's required! But if you're able to get the basics ingrained with a .22, then it's easier and faster to get the center fire up to speed.

There is almost no overlap. I know this because I trained for a year on 22's and it did not translate to center fire shooting.

Yes, there is overlap. You even cited some of it above, which I bolded.

I did quite a bit of research trying to figure out what the revolver needs for high performance shooting. Most of it is high round count, but some techniques certainly help.

High round count is very important, but isn't the main component. Grip and trigger pull matter more. Once you have mastered those, then it's time to address recoil management, which requires round count.

(how fast can i shoot a .22 revolver?) Good question...I never checked my performance with the K18 or 617. I shoot both quite fast.

I think you'll discover that your splits are pretty close! Once you realize you're pulling the trigger at the same speed, regardless of caliber, you'll then realize its your recoil management that needs the attention.