Senator's Response to Vitter Amendment to HR 980

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Dear ERICTHEBARBARIAN:

Thank you for expressing your views regarding S.AMDT.4757, which would provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State.

Although I have supported legislation in the past that would allow former law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons, I have reservations about providing that exemption to other individuals. Former officers have both firearms training and understanding and respect for the law. Any national legislation on concealed weapons would preempt state laws and create a national standard that might not meet the needs of local communities. Law enforcement organizations have spoken out repeatedly against creating national concealed weapons laws that could increase the dangers our police officers face every day. I will work to promote common sense gun safety laws that provide balanced and effective protection for our homes and communities while protecting our constitutional rights.

If this amendment comes to the Senate floor for a vote, you can be sure I will keep your views in mind. Thank you again for contacting me.


Sincerely,
Sherrod Brown

:banghead: Not that I expected much more from this guy, but atleast he knows there are people who care about concealed carry reciprocity. Sherrod Brown is rabidly antigun however, but no word back from George Voinovich yet(ohio senators).

This is a thread to post your senator's responses asking them if they will support the Vitter amendment to HR980. If you haven't sent them an email or written them a letter, get to it!
 
boy, we wouldnt want the federal government to tell the states to back off of the FEDERAL constitution would we?

im so tired of these two bit putzes thinking that they know how the constitution should apply
 
On a brighter note, when I wrote to Tom McClintock about yet another CA gun bill, I got an e-mail with a link about a speech he gave years ago:

A Speech by Senator Tom McClintock
Western Conservative Conference, Los Angeles, June 9, 2001

There are two modern views of government that begin from entirely different premises.

There is the 18th Century American view propounded by our nation’s founders. They believed, and formed a government based upon that belief, that each of us is endowed by our creator with certain rights that cannot be alienated, and that governments are instituted to protect those rights. This view is proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence and reflected in the American Bill of Rights.

The second view is 19th Century German in origin and expressed in the philosophies of Marx and Hegel and Nietzsche. It is a restatement of philosophies of absolutism that have plagued mankind for millennia. In this view, rights come not from God, but from the state. What rights you have are there because government has given them to you, all for the greater good – defined, of course, by government.

In the 20 years I have been actively engaged in public policy, I have seen the growing influence of this 19th Century German view. It disdains the view of the American Founders. It rejects the notion of inalienable rights endowed equally to every human being by the “laws of nature and of nature’s God.” In this view, it is the state, and not the individual, where rights are vested.

I mention this, because of a debate that occurred last week on the floor of the State Senate. It was a debate that occurred under the portrait of George Washington and the gold-emblazoned motto, “Senatoris Est Civitatis Libertatum Tueri” – “The Senators Protect the Liberty of the Citizens.”

At issue was a measure, SB 52, which will require a state-issued license to own a firearm for self-defense. To receive a license, you would have to meet a series of tests, costs and standards set by the state.

We have seen many bills considered and adopted that would infringe upon the right of a free people to bear arms. But this was the most brazen attempt in this legislature to claim that the very right of self-defense is not an inalienable natural right at all, but is rather a right that is licensed from government; a right that no longer belongs to you, but to your betters, who will license you to exercise that right at their discretion.

During the debate on this measure, which passed the Senate 25 to 15, I raised these issues. And I would like to quote to you the response of Senator Sheila Kuehl, to the approving nods of the Senators whose duty is to protect the liberty of the citizens.

She said, “There is only one constitutional right in the United States which is absolute and that is your right to believe anything you want.”

I want to focus on that statement. “The only constitutional right which is absolute is your right to believe anything you want.”

Now, compare that to the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”

What rights has a slave? There is only one: a slave can think anything he wants: as long as he doesn’t utter it or act on it – he may think what he wants. He has no right to the fruit of his labor; no right to self-defense, no right to raise his children, no right to contract with others for his betterment, no right to worship – except as his master allows. He has only the right to his own thoughts. All other rights are at the sufferance of his master – whether that master is a state or an owner.

Now, let us continue to look at this new constitutional principle propounded by Senator Kuehl, under the portrait of George Washington to the delight of her colleagues whose duty, according to the proud words above them, is to “Protect the Liberty of the Citizens.”

She continued, “Other than that, (the right to your own thoughts) government has the ability to say on behalf of all the people – I will put it in the colloquial way as my grandmother used to – your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. It’s a balance of your rights and my rights because we all have constitutional rights. And the question for government is how do we balance those rights?”

Indeed, the right to swing your fist does end where my nose begins. An excellent analogy. Shall we therefore amputate your fist so that you can never strike my nose? And would you deny me the use of my own fist to protect my nose?

Senator Kuehl and her colleagues believe government has the legitimate authority to do so. It is simply the question of balancing.

It is very important that we understand precisely what Senator Kuehl and the Left are saying.

A thief balances your right to your wallet against his right to eat. A murderer balances your right to life against his right to freedom. A master balances your right to “work and toil and make bread,” against his right to eat it. These are matters of balance.

The American view is quite different. In the view of the American Founders, the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God endow each of us with rights that are inalienable, and we are each equal in those rights. It is not a balancing act. These rights are absolute. They cannot be alienated.

But in a state of nature, there are predators who would deny us those rights. And thus we come together to preserve our freedom. In the American view, the only legitimate exercise of force by one person over another, or by one government over its people, is “to secure these rights.”

Senator Kuehl continues, “My right to defend myself in the home does not extend to my owning a tank, though that would make sense to me, perhaps, that no one would attack my home if I had a tank sitting in the living room.”

Let us put aside, for a moment, the obvious fact that a tank is only an instrument of self-defense against a power that employs a tank. But let us turn to the more reasonable side of her argument: that rights can be constrained by government; that there is, after all, “no right to shout ‘fire’ in a crowded theater. How can a right be absolute and yet constrained by government?

To Senator Kuehl and the Left, the answer is simply, “it’s easy -- whenever we say so.” Or, in her words, “government has the ability to say (so) on behalf of all the people.”

The American Founders had a different view, also, not surprisingly, diametrically opposed to Senator Kuehl’s way of thinking.

The right is absolute. In a free nation, government has no authority to forbid me from speaking because I might shout “fire” in a crowded theater. Government has no authority to forbid me from using my fist to defend myself because I might also use it to strike your nose. And government has no authority to forbid me from owning a firearm because I might shoot an innocent victim.

Government is there to assure that the full force of the law can be brought against me if I discharge that right in a manner that threatens the rights of others. It does not have the authority to deny me those very rights for fear I might misuse them.

Senator Kuehl continues, “In my opinion, this bill is one of those balances. It does not say you cannot have a gun. It does not say you cannot defend yourself. It says if you are going to be owning and handling and using a dangerous item you need to know how to use it, and you need to prove that you know how to use it by becoming licensed.”

How reasonable. How reassuring. How despotic.

We must understand what they are arguing, because it is chilling. They are arguing that any of our most precious rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights – any at least they decide are conceivably dangerous -- may only be extended through the license of the government.

If that is the case, they are not rights. With that one despotic principle, you have just dissolved the foundation of the entire Bill of Rights. You have created a society where your only right is to your own thoughts.

Inalienable rights are now alienated to government, and government may extend or refuse them upon its whim – or more precisely, upon a balancing act to be decided by government. Let us follow – in our minds at least – a little farther down this path.

Hate groups publish newsletters to disseminate their hatred and racism. Sick individuals in our society act upon this hatred. The Oklahoma City bombing killed a score of innocent children. Shouldn’t we license printing presses and Internet sites to prevent the pathology of hate from spreading? Such an act doesn’t say you cannot have a press. It does not say you cannot express yourself. It says if you are going to be owning and handling a printing press, you should know what not to say and prove that you can restrain yourself by becoming licensed.

And what are we to do about rogue religions like those that produced Heaven’s Gate and Jonestown? How many people around the world are killed by acts of religious fanaticism every year? Should we not license the legitimate churches? Such an act doesn’t say you cannot have a church. It does not say you cannot worship. It says if you are going to be running and conducting a church, that you must know how to worship and prove that you know how by becoming licensed.

The only right you have is the right to believe anything you want. The only right of a slave. The rest is negotiable – or to use the new word, “balanceable.”

In 1838, a 29 year old Abraham Lincoln posed the question for which he would ultimately give his life. Years later, he would debate Stephen Douglas, who argued that freedom and slavery were a matter of political balance. But in this speech, he spoke to the larger question that we must now confront:

"Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step over the ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! -- All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

The American Founders worried about the same thing. Late in life, Jefferson wrote to Adams, "Yes we did create a near perfect union; but will they keep it, or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom. Material abundance is the surest path to destruction."

And as I listened to Senator Kuehl proclaim that “the only constitutional right in the United States which is absolute … is your right to believe anything you want,” and as I gazed at the portrait of George Washington, and as I thought about the solemn words, “the Senators Protect the Liberty of the Citizens,” I couldn’t help but think of an aide to George Washington by the name of James McHenry, who accompanied the General as they departed Independence Hall the day the Constitution was born. He recorded this encounter between Benjamin Franklin and a Mrs. Powell. She asked, "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" Answered Dr. Franklin, "A republic, madam, if you can keep it."

For this generation, that is no longer a hypothetical question. History warns us that to one generation in five falls the duty – the highest duty and the most difficult duty of this Republic – to preserve the liberty of the citizens. It is the most difficult, because as Lincoln warned, it is a threat that springs up not on a foreign shore where we can see it – it springs up amongst us. It cannot be defeated by force of arms. It must be defeated by reason.

Have you noticed yet, that ours is that generation? And how ironic it would be that the freedoms won with the blood of Washington’s troops, and defended by so many who followed, should be voluntarily thrown away piece by piece by a generation that had become so dull and careless and pampered and uncaring that it lost the memory of freedom.

The Athenian Democracy had a word for “citizen” that survives in our language today. “Politikos.” Politician. The Athenians believed that a free people who declare themselves citizens assume a duty to declare themselves politicians at the same time. It is time we took that responsibility very seriously.

In 1780, the tide had turned in the American Revolution, and the Founders began to sense the freedom that was within sight. John Adams wrote these words to his wife that spring. He said, "The science of government it is my duty to study, more than all other sciences; the arts of legislation and administration and negotiation ought to take the place of, indeed exclude, in a manner, all other arts. I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain."

Ladies and gentlemen, the debate is not about guns. It is about freedom. And the wheel has come full circle. Our generation must study politics that we may restore the liberty that our parents and grandparents expect us to pass on to our children and grandchildren.

If we fail, what history will demand of our children and grandchildren, in a society where their only right is to their own thoughts, is simply unthinkable. And be assured, history will find it unforgivable. A generation that is handed the most precious gift in all the universe – freedom – and throws it away -- deserves to be reviled by every generation that follows – and will be, even though the only right left to them is their own thoughts.

But if we succeed in this struggle, we will know the greatest joy of all – the joy of watching our grandchildren secure with the blessings of liberty, studying arts and literature in a free nation and under God’s grace, once again.

Ladies and Gentlemen, isn’t that worth devoting the rest of our lives to achieve?

Say what you will, but that's not a half bad speech, if I must say so myself. o_O
 
Although I have supported legislation in the past that would allow former law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons, I have reservations about providing that exemption to other individuals. Former officers have both firearms training and understanding and respect for the law.

Dear Mr. Brown:

It takes a man of courage to assert that only former law enforcement officers have the training, understanding, and respect needed to comply with the law. Since all other people are incapable of complying with the law, it is indeed unfair to expect them to do so. Your bold stand could lead to relieving pressure on the state's prisons.

Do you also believe that untrained people should be prevented from defending their own lives, or do you believe only that they should be denied the means to defend their own lives?

Sincerely yours,

RH
 
Well I mean we all know that only firefighters should use fire extinguishers. I don't have the years of training to save my life and personal belongings from a fire :rolleyes:
 
Any national legislation on concealed weapons would preempt state laws and create a national standard that might not meet the needs of local communities.

Wait - is this guy a putz that does not even UNDERSTAND the bill? I thought that all State laws on CCW would apply...

If there IS going to be a Fedgov standard for CCW, I don't think I'd want the bill to pass EITHER! :what:
 
Now you're catching on, Dumptruck.

I look forward to Sherrod Brown's enlightened stance on the need for potential voters to have been trained before they are permitted to exercise the privilege of voting. Untrained voters are dangerous.

Which is why Sherrod Brown soon should advocate that anyone who wants to vote must pass a literacy test.
 
Bull

how many veterans are there.we are far better trained than most police.alot have seen the elephant and servived.many of us are far better shots than the police.remarks like that have a tendency to separate the police from the people.:uhoh::rolleyes::fire::cuss:
 
Write him back about ex and current military

Ask if he supports concealed carry for them
 
Write him back about ex and current military

Ask if he supports concealed carry for them

I think he's been clear about his position. I am encouraged by his belief that only former law enforcement officers should be allowed to carry concealed weapons.

There's no reason why active law enforcement officers should be allowed to carry concealed weapons. But I'm surprised that a legislator would say that undercover cops shouldn't or that no LEO should either. Backup guns are so tacky, don't you think?
 
The only response I've ever recieved from Sherrod Brown was in regards to HR 1022, and it was a canned response saying that I was wrong and that he'd do what's "best" for me.

Voinovich, OTOH, sent me a post letter in response to my E-Mail regarding the national park carry issue. He stated he'd keep my opinion in mind when Senator Coburn brought it forth, and reminded that he signed onto the Heller amicus.
I can be okay with Voinovich because I'm sure that he really does give a damn about what's right and wrong. Brown's in it for the power, and that's contemptable.
 
I will work to promote common sense gun safety laws that provide balanced and effective protection for our homes and communities while protecting our constitutional rights.

You know... I recall Paul Helmke (I just vomited a little in my throat for typing it's name) uses the term "common sense" when referring to gun control legislation.... ewww.
 
I'm posting the responses I got from my senators:

Sen. Durbin:






Sen:Obama:










I urged them to consider firearms restrictions and regulations as opressive especially to minorities who constitute a majority of "gun violence" victims.

P.S. by "fire them" do you mean on the grill or at the steak?:D
 
Errors in the senators letter:

Former officers have both firearms training and understanding and respect for the law.

Very few officers and even fewer LE Administrators have a clue about firearms training.

Law enforcement organizations have spoken out repeatedly against creating national concealed weapons laws that could increase the dangers our police officers face every day.

Uh...bad guys don't wait to get their concealed carry permits before deciding to break the law and increasing "the dangers our police officers face every day." Concealed carry permits and the dangers that police face are not even remotely connected. It would be like me saying because civilians have scuba gear it increases the chances of officers being attacked by sharks.
 
Illhunter, How about the FIRing squad? Tyrants should all meet the same end, regardless of method, but that would be some pretty sweet poetic justice... IMHO....not that I'm suggesting anyone "vote from the rooftops" or anything, but man, we the people can only take so much of this nonsense, right?
 
Funny how in North Carolina the sheriffs supported concealed carry

They must not be real law enforcement :rolleyes:
 
Interesting Response from Senator:

Dear Mr. Zombie:



Thanks for contacting me regarding an amendment(S. Amdt. 4757) offered by Senator Vitter to the Public Safety Employer-Employee Cooperation Act of 2007 (H.R. 980). It's nice to hear from you.



Like you, I support the Second Amendment right to bear arms. I want you to know that I support sensible gun control, but it is not my intention to eliminate the right of law-abiding U.S. citizens to own firearms or change the U.S. Constitution. When I took the oath of office, I swore to uphold the Constitution. I take my oath very seriously. My support for reasonable steps to prevent crime does not go against my support for people's right to protect themselves or their right to hunt. We can take measures to save lives without infringing on the Constitution.



As you may know, S. Amdt. 4757 will grant citizens the right to carry concealed weapons outside of the state in which they were issued a concealed weapon permit. H.R. 980 came to the Senate floor in May 2008 but action has not yet been completed on this bill or the amendment in question.



Knowing of your support for this amendment is very helpful to me. I will keep your views in mind should this measure come before the Senate for a vote.



Again, thanks for contacting me. Please let me know if I can be of help to you in the future.


Sincerely,
Barbara A. Mikulski
United States Senator
 
So, If LEO's can Concealed Carry Handguns because they have the training and respect for the law....does that mean I should get to carry Machine Guns and Grenades? As an Infantry Marine I definately have the training, and I FULLY respect Explosives and Belt Fed weapons....I should write my congressman....
 
So us mere citizens don't understand or respect the law?

Correct. That's why it would be a violation of the Constitutional protection against "cruel and unusual punishment" to penalize you for violating the law. Go knock off a bank or steal a car. You're not responsible for your actions. Enjoy. Have fun and thank the Senator when you have the time.

I'm surprised he thinks that current officers have neither firearms training nor understanding and respect for the law. Most U.S. Senators don't either.
 
I love the way he says that allowing concealed carry would increase dangers to police. HOW???? I've worked in some form of law enforcement my whole life. I have NEVER feared a loaw abiding citizen with a gun. If he was going to shoot me it isn't the fact that having the gun is illegal that is going to stop him. I find it amazing that politicians think that a criminal will commit murder but the won't carry a gun illegally. Or that a legal CCW holder will be driven to commit murder because he has a weapon. That is SOOOOOO stupid.
 
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