Service ammunition: is any of it effective?

[Vern Humphrey]

Vern:
I suspect a bullet that is likely to yaw or tumble would do so promptly after hitting bone, and or the stuff that's usually covering your chest in combat(Fackler does bring this up).
So, the .308 does deserve it's reputation. Also, most shots aren't going to be through the chest. I would guess most shots are taken at prone, concealed opponents in war.

Perfectly true that bone changes the parameters. Flack vests also change them -- mostly by turning fatal wounds into mere bruises.

In combat, a disproportionately large number of hits are in the head and neck area -- the only parts exposed when shooting. With full body exposure, most wounds are in non-lethal areas -- arms, legs, lower abdomin -- because these make up most of the body area.

That said, our interest (as civilians in a self-defense situation) is in stopping an opponent. That means an upper torso hit (CNS hits are too difficult to count on under great stress.)

 

[Prosser]

Shotguns aren't perfect, but they are real good. Problem with a shotgun is they type of ammunition used, and penetration. Also, most people can't practice with a shotgun at their ranges, so they may not hit what they are aiming at, and, a shotgun requires accuracy as well. It's not a magic weapon.

Those big slugs I posted above leave a very large permanent wound channel, along with a very good sized temporary cavity. However, they give up a huge velocity edge to a rifle, meaning the temporary wound cavity with a high velocity rifle, and a soft point can be very effective:

Shotguns are going to give you a big, shallow temporary wound channel, and, small, shallow, permanent wound channels.
Look something like this

I think that would be a good alternative.

Still, a soft point, service caliber rifle is clearly a great defense solution.

Now, that said, there are pistol rounds that can create a LOT of damage, with proper bullet selection.
What I don't get is all my buddies rave about .475 or .510 caliber handguns, using LFN, flat nosed type bullets, at between 1000-1350 fps.

My guess is the large flat nose creates some sort of larger permanent cavity, and, perhaps the bullets yaw abit, taking advantage of their nearly an inch in length to do more damage, or perhaps thumble on bone? Perhaps they compensate, because in game the wound channel is much longer? Also, since they are heavy, they maintain their initial speed, through the target, making a much larger temporary cavity, by the cavity being longer. In other words, the wound cavity is similar to a 50-110 sharps...

 

[mljdeckard]

My primary HD weapon is a shotgun, loaded with #4 buck. In close quarters, it is the best stopping weapon. My primary truck gun is my SKS, because I use it for a lot more than personal defense. A shotgun outperforms a rifle, out to 30-40 yards. With my SKS, I can put 20 rounds on target out to 200 yards, which a shotgun can't do. I can still use it in close quarters. I can reload it a lot faster than I can a shotgun. While defensive situations outside of the range of a pistol or shotgun are rare, they are far from impossible.

If shotguns were the best option in every situation, our soldiers would drop their rifles and only use shotguns to clear houses and cover detainees while they search vehicles.

 

[Noveldoc]

Moros were seriously stoked up on hashhish.

Tom

 

[Prosser]

My HD is either a .475 Linebaugh revolver, 400 grain HP's at 1350 fps, similar to that 18th century .50 caliber service rifle round, 45 Super, 230 grains, HP to about 1" at 1100 fps, and, if I have time, my Mosin Nagant 44, 182 grain softpoints at about 2750 fps.

I don't think any of them are undergunned, I can shoot them all, and pretty well. Plus the 44 has a bayonnet...