Having not served myself, I had a question pop up that I figured someone here could answer. Age requirement to own,and unless I'm mistaken, operate unsupervised, a pistol is 21. You can enlist at 18. So are enlisted men/woman ages 18 to 20 issued a side arm? I thought they were but with the age requirement now I'm not sure.
Service side arm age restriction?
- Thread starter JRWhit
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Just to clarify, I have no issue with enlisted men/women age 18 to 20 having a side arm. I am just curious how it's handled state side. When they are back home or off base are they allowed a side arm? I couldn't imagine law enforcement stopping a service member to disarm due to age. But the idea peaked my curiosity.
When I deployed, we all were issued, qualified with, and carried EVERYWHERE a Beretta M9 (in addition to our M4 and crew served weapons). We had many soldiers who were in the 18-20 age range. So to answer the question, yes, they are issued a sidearm
deadin
Member
Back when I was on active duty if you needed a side arm (i.e. in a combat zone,etc.) you were issued one. Stateside you checked out a side arm if your duty required one, otherwise they were locked up in the armory.
No, you didn't get to take them home or on liberty.....
No, you didn't get to take them home or on liberty.....
SconnieGirl
Member
Age to own and operate unsupervised is 18. Age to purchase from an FFL is 21.
I was 18, 19 and 20 my first three years in the Army and was issued an M11...and an M4A1, not the lamesauce 3-round burst M4
I was 18, 19 and 20 my first three years in the Army and was issued an M11...and an M4A1, not the lamesauce 3-round burst M4
LOL!! Now that's funny! Sir, Pvt. Smedley requests permission to fire my pistol at the enemy, Sir! I can't hear you! Sir, Pvt. Smedley requests permission to fire my pistol at the enemy, Sir! You may fire one round, private. Aye, aye, Sir!
beatledog7
Member
My experience is Navy, but also lots of Joint duty.
Young military types (18-20) are junior enlisted. Other than those engaged in law enforcement duties, these folks are typically not "issued" side arms, though they might train and qualify with the M9. They are far more likely to be "issued" a rifle. The pistol is far more commonly a senior NCO or Officer's weapon.
Young military types (18-20) are junior enlisted. Other than those engaged in law enforcement duties, these folks are typically not "issued" side arms, though they might train and qualify with the M9. They are far more likely to be "issued" a rifle. The pistol is far more commonly a senior NCO or Officer's weapon.
Hurryin' Hoosier
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Actually, that scenario would not have been too far from the truth in Viet Nam.
MedWheeler
Member
In fact, the State of Florida has amended its carry license laws to lower the minimum age to 18 for active-duty or honorably-discharged veterans (all others must have reached their 21st birthday.)
Deaf Smith
Member
In Texas you can OWN a handgun at 18 but you cannot BUY it till 21.
Same as the federal rules.
But many a dad has bought their 15-16 year olds a handgun for Christmas or birthday present.
I had my first handgun at 16. A H&R .22 Western style revolver and by 17 traded a .22 H&R fall out cylinder .22 for at FN made 1903 .25 Auto with my electricity teacher in high school (in the parking lot no less.) Might ruffle alot of feathers if that was done now.
Deaf
Same as the federal rules.
But many a dad has bought their 15-16 year olds a handgun for Christmas or birthday present.
I had my first handgun at 16. A H&R .22 Western style revolver and by 17 traded a .22 H&R fall out cylinder .22 for at FN made 1903 .25 Auto with my electricity teacher in high school (in the parking lot no less.) Might ruffle alot of feathers if that was done now.
Deaf
Byrd666
Member
I was in the U. S. Navy at the age of seventeen, only because I couldn't join sooner, and was issued a sidearm, 1911, and rifle, M16, during my service. There was only one occasion I can recall where we were authorized/ordered to carry our service weapons off base with live ammo and cocked and locked. Any other "normal" activities with said weapons were strictly supervised and on campus.
As I understood it at the time, a long time ago too, Federal demands/jurisdiction took/take precedence over state,county, and local laws. So even being a ripe old age of seventeen, I was well within the scope of the law. As you stated, things might be different now but, I'm thinking they are still the same.
As I understood it at the time, a long time ago too, Federal demands/jurisdiction took/take precedence over state,county, and local laws. So even being a ripe old age of seventeen, I was well within the scope of the law. As you stated, things might be different now but, I'm thinking they are still the same.
mstreddy
Member
OP you asked if they can carry a sidearm when off base? If they are not performing their military duties, then it falls to whatever the state allows for carry of firearms. The federal law trumping state/local laws is in the case of jurisdiction, nexus, and official military capacity. In other words, an MP while performing those duties can be off base and carry his M9. Examples, a patrol of the external base perimeter, courier duties and traveling to and from an externally located base facility.
When you enlist in the armed forces you are no longer under the laws of the Untied States. You are U.S. Govt. property and subject to the Uniform Code Of Military Justice. You have no protection under the Bill of Rights. If they decide you need to operate a machine gun or a missile launcher the laws of the State or the BATF do not apply to you (while on duty). Every State I have lived in has exemptions from firearms laws granted to military personnel on duty and/or in uniform. This does not mean that some knuckleheaded sheriff won't try to intimidate you though.
Weapons are kept in the arms room unless they're out for a specific reason. You don't just carry your weapon around all the time.
If your issue is a handgun and you're on an exercise or something, you'll have a handgun. The Army doesn't care if you're under 21.
I was tilling earth with HE and playing with AT mines that have ten times the destructive power of any MG when I was 19. Compared to that, what's a sidearm?
If your issue is a handgun and you're on an exercise or something, you'll have a handgun. The Army doesn't care if you're under 21.
I was tilling earth with HE and playing with AT mines that have ten times the destructive power of any MG when I was 19. Compared to that, what's a sidearm?
Telekinesis
Member
Per federal law the legal age to buy, own, and use a pistol is 18. You just can't transfer it through a FFL until you are 21. 18 USC 922 (x).
You actually can buy a machine gun at 18 too, just can't transfer it through a FFL/SOT until you're 21. You can buy it from someone in state so that it's a FTF transaction (after the Form 4 is approved of course) and no FFL is required. I also know of several people who have made NFA weapons (SBRs and suppressors) on Form 1s while under 21.
You actually can buy a machine gun at 18 too, just can't transfer it through a FFL/SOT until you're 21. You can buy it from someone in state so that it's a FTF transaction (after the Form 4 is approved of course) and no FFL is required. I also know of several people who have made NFA weapons (SBRs and suppressors) on Form 1s while under 21.
mljdeckard
Member
Military and civilian laws are SUPPOSED to be separate, but Lautenberg applies to soldiers.
You can be a service member, and have a permit to carry a firearm as a civilian, but that doesn't mean you can do it on-post. You can be assigned as a soldier to carry a sidearm as part of your duties, but you must use it in accordance with your mission, orders, and authority. Ne'er the two shall mix. You can't carry your privately owned weapon for military duty either.
You can be a service member, and have a permit to carry a firearm as a civilian, but that doesn't mean you can do it on-post. You can be assigned as a soldier to carry a sidearm as part of your duties, but you must use it in accordance with your mission, orders, and authority. Ne'er the two shall mix. You can't carry your privately owned weapon for military duty either.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Hmmm?
That's a mighty strange order right there!
To my knowledge, carrying a 1911 loaded, cocked & locked, would be against every standing order in the book regarding the 1911 pistol in military service.
To do so is one thing, and I have done it myself.
But to be ordered too do so, would be against all military regulations and manual of arms for the 1911 pistol.
rc
Texan Scott
Member
JRWhit, the answers depend on branch of service, ERA of service, unit, and function.
In my experience (USAF Sigint, multiservice/ multinational units) Balkans through OEF/OIF, enlisted of any age are issued the M9 and M16a2 (later a4) whenever their command requires them to be so armed. Safety settings on the M16: Safe, Article 15, & Court Marshal.
Military weapons and munitions were NEVER, EVER issued for keeping in personal possession off-duty outside a war zone. Stateside, military weapons qualification means JACK to local or state law enforcement off-post, and frankly, our commanders generally would prefer we not have 'em. As a married NCO living outside the gate, my commander had no say over what I kept in the house or carried in town in civies, just as local PoPo had no say over anything done under military orders.
In my experience (USAF Sigint, multiservice/ multinational units) Balkans through OEF/OIF, enlisted of any age are issued the M9 and M16a2 (later a4) whenever their command requires them to be so armed. Safety settings on the M16: Safe, Article 15, & Court Marshal.
Military weapons and munitions were NEVER, EVER issued for keeping in personal possession off-duty outside a war zone. Stateside, military weapons qualification means JACK to local or state law enforcement off-post, and frankly, our commanders generally would prefer we not have 'em. As a married NCO living outside the gate, my commander had no say over what I kept in the house or carried in town in civies, just as local PoPo had no say over anything done under military orders.
NavyLCDR
member
You are mistaken. See below.
Both Texas law and Federal law allows a person over the age of 18 to purchase a handgun. The Federal statute is 18 USC 922 (x) which sets the legal age at 18, and the Texas statute is Title 10, Section 46.06.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.06
Every state law that I know of in states that do limit the possession of handguns to those over 21 have exemptions for both law enforcement and military personnel in the performance of their duties, and it does happen. I was in charge of a team that would routinely move classified items over public highways and it would be routine for us to issue our security personnel M9 pistols and some of those personnel were <21 years old. Prior to issuing weapons, I also had to screen their individual records to ensure there was no evidence to indicate they were a prohibited person under Federal law.
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Deaf Smith
Member
Dunno about 18 year olds buying handguns LTCR...
http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/articles/2004/citizen`s-guide-to-federal-firearms-law.aspx
Deaf
http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/articles/2004/citizen`s-guide-to-federal-firearms-law.aspx
Deaf
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
It's pretty simple. Under 18: No handgun purchases from anyone nor unsupervised access (barring a few specific instances). Under 21: No handgun purchases from a FFL dealer. Handguns may be purchased in a private sale between state residents unless state law prohibits that.
The military question is quite simple as well: The soldier, sailor, Marine, airman, etc., will be told to do a job and he or she will do that job. It may or may not involve carrying a weapon. That weapon will be provided for the duration of that task or duty and taken back into inventory when the task or duty is complete.
The military question is quite simple as well: The soldier, sailor, Marine, airman, etc., will be told to do a job and he or she will do that job. It may or may not involve carrying a weapon. That weapon will be provided for the duration of that task or duty and taken back into inventory when the task or duty is complete.
NavyLCDR
member
Here's the simple task for you, Deaf. If I am a Texas resident, and I sell a handgun to another Texas resident who is 18 years old in a private face-to-face sale with no FFL involved, show me which Federal or Texas statute I have violated. I even provided you with the links to the statutes in post #21.
Notice what the ATF says about it:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/tip-of-the-month-2010.html
The ATF has the correct explanation here: the Federal age limit for a person to receive a firearm other than a rifle or shotgun from an FFL (and FFL only) is 21. The Federal age limit for any other person, not an FFL, to sell or otherwise provide a handgun to a person is 18. In a state such as Texas, and most states, the face-to-face transaction between same state residents is not required to go through an FFL.
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Purchased my first handgun at age 17 from a FFL, no restrictions, no waiting periods, no 4473's, no problems just a drivers lic. needed.
I think these anti's have a brain freeze if they think every kid is going out and shooting someone. Out of 330,000,000 people we have what maybe 5 a year that are stupid.
Talk abut the exception making the rule.
Jim
I think these anti's have a brain freeze if they think every kid is going out and shooting someone. Out of 330,000,000 people we have what maybe 5 a year that are stupid.
Talk abut the exception making the rule.
Jim
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