Shilen Savage Barrel w/ Muzzle Brake?

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LRShooting

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I have some prepaid Visas (400$ worth) to splurge with. Ive messed with several ideas and Ive settled on upgrading my Savage 308.

Just to explain myself, Im not spending it on ammo to increase my shooting because I am more apt to spend my own money in the smaller quantities of reloading than I am to spend 500$ at once on a barrel. I have plenty of bullets as of now anyways and I try more quality than quantity anyways due to lack of time.

Either way, I think a Shilen barrel and have them install a muzzle brake for $169 would not be a bad idea. I hear a lot of good things on Shilen barrels, and a heavy 26" varmint with 1:10 twist would do everything I would want from it as a .308. But I dont know how much muzzle breaks are going to help. Is it going to help accuracy? Hinder it?

I know they make it pretty loud to anybody standing around the gun and can reduce recoil a little, but I dont get shooter fatigue with this gun. Therefore, recoil reduction isn't really an issue unless it was a 300 mag or such, or if it affects accuracy.
 
A muzzle break won't affect accuracy. It will reduce recoil, but the noise they generate is incredible. I don't see the point on a heavy barrel 308.
 
A properly designed/manufactured/installed muzzle brake won't negatively affect accuracy. Groups can actually improve with some, especially if it is a gun with heavy recoil (less shooter flinch always helps). It may change POA/POI.

I've seen some bad combinations that were worse with the brake than without. Usually homebrew installs with poor concentricity to the bore.
 
BBBBill said:
A properly designed/manufactured/installed muzzle brake won't negatively affect accuracy. Groups can actually improve with some, especially if it is a gun with heavy recoil (less shooter flinch always helps). It may change POA/POI.

I've seen some bad combinations that were worse with the brake than without. Usually homebrew installs with poor concentricity to the bore.
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I see. I was going to have Shilen do the install. I trust their work. I dont have a decent lathe at my disposal to do precision lathe work and threading. If I buy the muzzle brake from Shilen, it would be a JP enterprises brake @ 169$ including install. If it wont negatively affect it, I might as well. I like the look and I dont mind the noise. Sure, its loud, but thats what ear protection is for.
 
If shilen wait times are the same as a few years ago, you can get a stamp for a suppressor about as quick.

Call Jim Briggs at Northland Shooter Supply and see what he has on hand. I picked up a couple of shilen select match barrels for less / barrel than shilen wanted for a standard match and he shipped within a week. Shilen was over 6 months and I wasn't wanting anything special (like a brake).

Take the $160 you're willing to spend on the brake and use that to have a good smith thread your barrel and turn a thread protector. Then take an empty powder can and write 'suppressor fund' on it and start feeding it.
 
MtnCreek said:
If shilen wait times are the same as a few years ago, you can get a stamp for a suppressor about as quick.

Call Jim Briggs at Northland Shooter Supply and see what he has on hand. I picked up a couple of shilen select match barrels for less / barrel than shilen wanted for a standard match and he shipped within a week. Shilen was over 6 months and I wasn't wanting anything special (like a brake).

Take the $160 you're willing to spend on the brake and use that to have a good smith thread your barrel and turn a thread protector. Then take an empty powder can and write 'suppressor fund' on it and start feeding it.
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Wow. Thanks. Ill definitely give him a call. Im not particularly interested in a suppressor though.
 
I dont get shooter fatigue with this gun.
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Then save the price of the "loudener."

Do you plan to shoot 200+ gr bullets?
If not, a 12 twist is adequate. I got a 10 because my resource recommended 11 from his military match experience and Pac Nor did not offer it. Mine is more accurate than factory with 155 gr Scenars and 175 gr SMK but I wonder if a little slower twist might not do a little better.
 
Jim Watson said:
Then save the price of the "loudener."

Do you plan to shoot 200+ gr bullets?
If not, a 12 twist is adequate. I got a 10 because my resource recommended 11 from his military match experience and Pac Nor did not offer it. Mine is more accurate than factory with 155 gr Scenars and 175 gr SMK but I wonder if a little slower twist might not do a little better.
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I was doing more research and decided thatd probably be a good idea. Shilen doesn't have 11 either. Is it better to have slower than faster tho? I would like to have the option of shooting heavy bullets if i need to.
 
At 26" you should be fine at 1:12 even with heavy bullets and less than optimal conditions.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

I like 1:10.


Edit: Below is JBM calc for a 208 amax @ 2,450 fps and 10*F. JBM says borderline. It's probably a little optimistic. 175/178 should be fine in 1:12, but I'd still choose 1:10, JMHO...

Stability
Input Data
Caliber: 0.308 in Bullet Weight: 208.0 gr
Bullet Length: 1.532 in Plastic Tip Length: 0.138 in

Muzzle Velocity: 2450.0 ft/s Barrel Twist: 12.0 in

Temperature: 10.0 °F Pressure: 32.00 in Hg
Output Data
Stability: 1.066
 
Last edited:
MtnCreek said:
At 26" you should be fine at 1:12 even with heavy bullets and less than optimal conditions.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

I like 1:10.


Edit: Below is JBM calc for a 208 amax @ 2,450 fps and 10*F. JBM says borderline. It's probably a little optimistic. 175/178 should be fine in 1:12, but I'd still choose 1:10, JMHO...

Stability
Input Data
Caliber: 0.308 in Bullet Weight: 208.0 gr
Bullet Length: 1.532 in Plastic Tip Length: 0.138 in

Muzzle Velocity: 2450.0 ft/s Barrel Twist: 12.0 in

Temperature: 10.0 °F Pressure: 32.00 in Hg
Output Data
Stability: 1.066
Click to expand...
As far as I know, overspin and underspin are both bad, but overspin is less so than under. I know with arrows it isn't the exact same, but Ive found that arrows fletched slightly less helical will wobble more than those fletched in a tight helical. I assume the same applies for bullets. Heck, if I shorten the barrel to 22 inches for some reason (maybe I find it too long and just want it shorter), than Ill already have a tight enough rifling to still handle heavies.
 
atblis said:
Swapping to a different cartridge can be as easy as swapping barrels. Not saying that's your best option. If you're setup good for loading 308, I'd stick with that.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/change-rifle-barrels-in-minutes/
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I actually considered that, but quickly nullified any idea of it due to having a short action rifle. .308 seems about the best of the short actions for long range paper punching and shorter range hunting. If I had a long action .308, I would buy a bigger caliber more suited for long range. Id probably get a .338 lapua, but I think that is a different receiver altogether. Better just to build that gun from the ground up when I get to it. No reason to slump on a gun that is gonna shoot no less than 1.50$ bullets if you get enough use from the cases.
 
A muzzle

brake on a .308 or any other rifle reminds me of a pig in lipstick. If the gun is decently accurate I'd send it to Magnaport.
 
Garrobo said:
brake on a .308 or any other rifle reminds me of a pig in lipstick. If the gun is decently accurate I'd send it to Magnaport.
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To each his own...I dont think my gun will be light enough to require a muzzle brake, and I dont shoot that much. If I was shooting a heavier caliber like a 300 wm, I probably would to help manage recoil a little better and help myself become a little more accurate. I know my OP said I Might get one installed, but research has proved otherwise. Although if I want to be able to track my shot after pulling the trigger and I am still getting quite a bit of jump, I might get a brake still to help calm that down. i dont want integral like magnaport because you cant take it off and I cant put a suppressor on if need be. Im sure it could be covered up, but id rather just screw something off instead.

Not to say its not a good idea though. I have a shotgun thats been ported and that sucker is loud during squirrel hunting. At least to anybody standing right next to me.
 
I'm going to disagree with natman here on the brake not having an effect on accuracy. It may not change how accurate the barrel can be, but you hang a weight from the end of a barrel after removing metal (introducing stresses into the barrel), then you very well CAN change the consistency of the barrel. As a handloader, you'll be able to adjust and work a good load with that shilen.. I dont think you'll be dissappointed, with or without brake.. BUT it would be theoretically possible to measure a difference in accuracy based on pre cut for brake, after the cut for the brake, and the addition of the brake. I had a shilen 24" in a light varmint contour that would do .5 moa at 100y with factory match ammo.. I liked that rifle.

Mine was a 1:10 btw...
 
scythefwd said:
I'm going to disagree with natman here on the brake not having an effect on accuracy. It may not change how accurate the barrel can be, but you hang a weight from the end of a barrel after removing metal (introducing stresses into the barrel), then you very well CAN change the consistency of the barrel. As a handloader, you'll be able to adjust and work a good load with that shilen.. I dont think you'll be dissappointed, with or without brake.. BUT it would be theoretically possible to measure a difference in accuracy based on pre cut for brake, after the cut for the brake, and the addition of the brake. I had a shilen 24" in a light varmint contour that would do .5 moa at 100y with factory match ammo.. I liked that rifle.

Mine was a 1:10 btw...
Click to expand...
I see. I have a 1:10 that should be here tomarrow. Its 26 inch S7 varmint contour. Its 11 degree target crowned for whatever reason. Shilien shows on their site that varmint contours are recessed tactical crown. Ill see how she shoots. If I decide I want a brake, ill have my smith cut it to the largest thread size I can find in a decent brake and supressor (for later), then test again. Biggest single advantage I can see with a brake on a low recoil gun is for somebody like me who likes to tkae their gun while checking cattle to pop any coyotes running around, I need something good to protect the end of the barrel. I dont see anything better than a muzzle brake. Crowns, regardless of style, can be damaged. A brake can be too, but not affecting accuracy as drastically and can be replaced for less than 100$. It might cost me close to that just to get a recrown, plus stresses on the barrel.

And while im thinking about, I realize there are some who are gonna say there is no way a 26 inch gun can be a truck gun. Well, no not really. They are a little long for what is typically considered a truck gun. But for my purposes, you have to get out of the truck or you are subject to losing your license, your gun, anything that you had with you including your truck, and serious fines. You might get the truck back, but sometimes you get property confiscated depending on severity. I know a guy who had his rifle taken for sure, I dont remember about his truck. 4 inches has never made too much a difference for me getting the gun out of the truck to set up a shot. I have a long barrel on a 12 gauge that will be roughly the same overall length and it wasn't too bad to get in/out.
 
scythefwd said:
The recessed crown will protect it. I had a recessed crown on ine..
Click to expand...
But they aren't as robust as a tactical crown are they? Seems like the edge is not quite as strong compared to my tactical crowns. I just got it today, and I must say it looks stronger than what I imagined, but still not as strong.

Ill see how she does when I get everything put together. I may still decide I need a brake for taking recoil to nothing and helping protect the barrel. Maybe Im just being naive and trying to find reasons for a brake, but I do think my reasoning is sound.
 
What do you mean by a tatical crown? The recessed crown only needs to be down a 1/2mm or so.. the actual crown is an almost imperceptible chamfer right at the bore, nothing more...
 
scythefwd said:
What do you mean by a tatical crown? The recessed crown only needs to be down a 1/2mm or so.. the actual crown is an almost imperceptible chamfer right at the bore, nothing more...
Click to expand...
You know, I honestly dont know why I said tactical crown. I do mean recessed crown...I dont know where my mind was. I basically just argued with myself...ha. Maybe I was thinking target crown, not recessed when I said that.

I understand that the crown is really just the chamfer at the bore. I have done some of them with a brass screw and lapping compound (just my cheap guns that benefit from it).
 
Why would you put

a muzzle brake on a .308? If it was a .338 or larger I'd see it.
 
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