bikemutt
Member
It's been suggested by a MD resident that as long as a >20 capacity magazine is fully disassembled and shipped as repair parts to him, that is perfectly legal. Anyone here from MD know of any pitfalls for doing so?
Shipping high capacity magazines to MD
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HankB
Member
One pitfall I can envision is that unless you know the MD resident, it could be a "sting" of some sort, but I'll let the actual lawyers on the board weigh in.
Note that emails that refer to the magazines as something as other than "repair parts" could be entered into evidence . . .
(Sometimes, a little paranoia is a healthy thing.)
Note that emails that refer to the magazines as something as other than "repair parts" could be entered into evidence . . .
(Sometimes, a little paranoia is a healthy thing.)
Speedo66
Member
The fact that you're discussing it here and realize it's illegal would tend to involve you in a conspiracy to try and circumvent the law.
Shipping a complete set of parts to build a magazine as repair parts? It would be safer to find someone in a legal state to ship to.
Shipping a complete set of parts to build a magazine as repair parts? It would be safer to find someone in a legal state to ship to.
OP
OP
bikemutt
Member
Apparently this is not uncommon: http://www.44mag.com/product/high_capacity_magazine_repair_kits/
swinokur
Member
If all the parts are shipped, isn't it stll a magazine? The law doesn't specify if a disassembled mag can be shipped.
My advice, ship the parts in 2 separate shipment. A little more money but less potential trouble.
My advice, ship the parts in 2 separate shipment. A little more money but less potential trouble.
I can't speak for MD laws, but here in the Peoples Republic of California, if a magazine is disassembled it is legal to send it here.
The law says that magazine repair kits can be shipped here as repair parts for those high capacity magazines that were in the state before the ban (2000) was implemented. It is illegal for the end user to assemble them into a functioning magazine after they are here, unless they are being used to repair existing magazines.
To restate the facts of the law: It is perfectly legal to ship disassembled magazines as far as Cali is concerned.
To restate what I don't know: I do not know the law as it pertains to Maryland, but if you go to the state DOJ website, it should be easy to determine.
The law says that magazine repair kits can be shipped here as repair parts for those high capacity magazines that were in the state before the ban (2000) was implemented. It is illegal for the end user to assemble them into a functioning magazine after they are here, unless they are being used to repair existing magazines.
To restate the facts of the law: It is perfectly legal to ship disassembled magazines as far as Cali is concerned.
To restate what I don't know: I do not know the law as it pertains to Maryland, but if you go to the state DOJ website, it should be easy to determine.
OP
OP
bikemutt
Member
Even though it may be a legal loophole, still doesn't feel right. Pass.
Thanks for the responses.
Thanks for the responses.
silvermane_1
Member
good choice bikemutt, i hate some see BATFE sting involving a Renton man on KOMO 4 news(local ABC station).
CoRoMo
Member
I've done this many times. Nothing to worry about if you follow the state's law. Take it from someone with experience; providing for gun owners behind enemy lines feels wonderful!!
What makes you think the bureau regulates ammunition magazines and enforces state laws?
Nicky Santoro
Member
If you live in and are in WA, you aren't under the jurisdiction of MD law anyway
This^
The buyer takes title to the magazines FOB shipping point, which in the OP's case is Washington. When the buyer receives them he is essentially receiving magazines he already owns. Whether it is legal for him to possess them in Maryland is his concern, not yours. Maryland law ends at the state line. The OP is good to go.
This^
The buyer takes title to the magazines FOB shipping point, which in the OP's case is Washington. When the buyer receives them he is essentially receiving magazines he already owns. Whether it is legal for him to possess them in Maryland is his concern, not yours. Maryland law ends at the state line. The OP is good to go.
leadcounsel
member
I wouldn't touch it.
Possible state law violations. If so, arrest warrants in MD. Violations of Federal Commerce laws, mail laws, and interstate commerce laws...
Emails, return addresses... serious potential legal violations.
Risk/reward brother...
No thanks.
Possible state law violations. If so, arrest warrants in MD. Violations of Federal Commerce laws, mail laws, and interstate commerce laws...
Emails, return addresses... serious potential legal violations.
Risk/reward brother...
No thanks.
There are knotheads here in California who sell hi caps by laying the parts out and calling them "rebuild kits". They publicly post the pictures on Calguns. basically, if and when there is enough enforcement manpower in the Cali DOJ, they will go after them. Anybody stupid enough to think that is legal basically deserves what they get.
What federal commerce laws, mail laws, and interstate commerce laws??
Any examples of these serious legal violations? Because you know people have been doing this for years and years and years
TurtlePhish
Member
Actually, that's completely legal as previously stated. Sure, the DOJ could go after those people, but they won't have anything to go after them with.
Yeah, well, that's because what they are doing is legal.
CoRoMo
Member
We would do better to eliminate the mysterious 'possibilities' and work with the black and white text of law and the precedents created in court. You would agree that doing so will make this sub-forum of THR the best place on the net for legal discussions regarding firearms.
It is obvious that the quoted Maryland law does not prohibit or regulate a mag spring nor does it restrict followers or floor plates by name. So it begs the question...
From upon what grounds should we all dissuade the OP from engaging in this legal act?
Is there judicial precedent somewhere that we can point to in order to illustrate the illegality of buying a part of a magazine? Where do we look for the evidence that would cause anyone to conclude that replacement parts are also prohibited under Maryland's § 4-305?
leadcounsel
member
I guess I'm just cautious when it comes to safeguarding my liberties, freedom, and wealth.
The term "constructive sale" or "constructive possession" comes to mind.
Sure, you *might* be okay... however the limitless coffers of the state or federal government, and an overzealous prosecutor, could cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to prove your point, not to mention the serious consequences IF you are wrong. Ever been through a trial? It isn't fun. Months or years living with immesurable stress, and spending a small fortune on your defense; and the BEST case scenario is you walk out in no better place than before you started - a free man.
And IF you are wrong, your new nickname is "Inmate 45687" and you get to tell everyone why you are a felon and convict. Fun stuff.
Again, no thanks. Sending or possessing parts of an illegal object in states where they are prohibited is NOT a risk I personally would be willing to accept.
Dude, how could the state of MD possibly charge a WA resident who was and is in WA with breaking MD law???
leadcounsel
member
Good question. Easy answer. If Jon lives in state A and commit a crime in state B, BOTH states can have jurisdiction and issue arrest warrants. Further, it's also interstate crime, so the Feds are involved, particularly if you use the mails.
For example, say Jon sends a mail bomb from state A to state B using the post office. Jon's bomb kills a person in state B. State A, state B, and the Feds all have jurisdiction and can prosecute Jon. State B may not be able to unless Jon's extradicted... but once convicted an incarcerated in state A or by the Feds, and extradiction is a high probability.
Another example, say Tim shoots a rifle across state borders and commit a murder, from A to B. Again, states A, B, and the Feds have jurisdiction.
In the case of mailing illicit materials into a state, it's easy to track you down since your return address is on the mail, and there may also be electronic communications too.
Why do you think that most online retailers don't ship certain items into places like CA, MD, NY, IL, NJ, HI, etc.?
Doing this, sending illicit parts into MD, is taking MASSIVE legal risks for presumably very little gain. I would never even contemplate doing this... again, *maybe* you are right. But the pricetag of getting in front of a judge or jury to tell them why you are right is HUGE. Probably minimum of $20,000, and the risk of being wrong and incarcerated and losing your 2A rights. Absolutely stupid thing to do.
Admittedly, WA may not care about this exact situation. But MD might care, and the Feds might also care enough to file an arrest warrant. So, imagine having a MD and Federal arrest warrant ... have fun.
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Except in this case you aren't committing a crime in either state
leadcounsel
member
As an attorney for a decade, I've advised countless people (many very powerful) on the law and wise decisions. At the end of the day, they do whatever they want to do. I write myself a memo documenting my advice, and get on with my life. Hopefully they follow sound legal advice, sometimes they don't and they get burned. My legal advice has been wrong to someones detriment exactly zero times.
That said, nobody here is my client, however, and I am not offering official legal advice, nor have I accepted any fees from anyone here. So take my advice as personal advice, not legal counsel.
The plain reading of this cited MD law is quite clear. It says that detachable mags holding 21+ rounds are prohibited and a person cannot make, sell, purchase or receive them. What am I missing?
Sending magazine parts into MD is conspiring to help another person break MD law, and in doing so, you would be using the federal mails to further that conspiracy to commit a crime, which is probably at LEAST a Federal offense and a state felony. Doing this is absolutely asinine!
If YOU want to test the waters and be a test case, violating the intent of the law against sending magazines into the state by sending disassembled magazine parts, then good luck with that. I don't care, and hope it works out for you. But I cannot wrap my mind around the concept of purposefully TESTING the laws and might of the state and feds for such stupid reasons.
And don't give me the tripe about liberties, forefathers, the meaning of the 2A, King George, etc. I 100% disagree with the laws, but there are options. Vote them out, change the laws, and move from MD. The choice that I do NOT see, is purposefully violating the purpose of the law, at significant risk for so little gain.
IF you are dead set on doing this, then here is my follow up advice. Get an official legal opinion from the MD, WA, and Federal Attorney General. With those documents in hand, resume your operations. Without those documents, I would NOT do this.
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BK
Member
I was thoroughly walloped when I posed the same question recently- http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=691603. Someone in that thread produced a scanned letter from the state's attorney general's office if I recall. It stated that a magazine kit was gtg.
Nice link.
Rebuild kits to CA...legal.
I already knew that, which is part of why I sent so many rebuild kits to people in California recently.
If I lived in CA I'd do the same thing. I use my AR magazines as a monopod in prone so I would still want full size mags. Just block them off to the appropriate depth so they hold 10 rounds when assembled and, well, problem solved!
leadcounsel
member
I just read that: First, it deals with California, not MD, to be clear.
Secondly, it's not as clear cut good to go as you're suggesting in CA. Off topic but briefly, the AG there says that while some activities proposed are legal, the states that much of the proposed activites are dangerously close to, and even, illegal; subjecting the person to prosecution. Notwithstanding A1, A2, and A3, read A6 and A9 of the memo...
Exactly how many "rebuild" kits do you think you can mail or possess without raising some eyes? An argument can be made for possessing a few, but 50? 100? At some point you're clearly assisting, conspiring, or participating in criminal behavior. I advise against...
"How would I get caught?" is a common question. Well, the person in MD gets pinched for something, and a warrant for his home turns up all these magazine kits and boxes from where they were sent, or he cuts a deal and dimes out the seller...
Secondly, it's not as clear cut good to go as you're suggesting in CA. Off topic but briefly, the AG there says that while some activities proposed are legal, the states that much of the proposed activites are dangerously close to, and even, illegal; subjecting the person to prosecution. Notwithstanding A1, A2, and A3, read A6 and A9 of the memo...
Exactly how many "rebuild" kits do you think you can mail or possess without raising some eyes? An argument can be made for possessing a few, but 50? 100? At some point you're clearly assisting, conspiring, or participating in criminal behavior. I advise against...
"How would I get caught?" is a common question. Well, the person in MD gets pinched for something, and a warrant for his home turns up all these magazine kits and boxes from where they were sent, or he cuts a deal and dimes out the seller...
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