Shootin from the hip.

[Flashpoint]

The other day I was in Little Rock at an indoor range talking to a CCW instructor. He said he make his students shoot 20 rounds to qualify.

5- Two handed aiming

5- Stong hand only

5- Week hand only

5- From the hip

He said he makes them do that because they might not have the chance to bring the gun all the way up to aim. I can see his point. So has anyone else practice shoot from the hip? I tried it the other day, and well lets say I need the practice. If you have practice this way, do you have any tips?

 

[goalie]

It is like pointing your finger. With practice you can get better. Much better. I personally keep my trigger finger pointing alongside the gun as I draw and conciously point at the target before inserting finger into trigger guard and squeezing. It becomes second nature, like thumbing the safety on a 1911 after a while, and really doesn't slow you down.

 

[Al Thompson]

Just remember to keep your targets close. The only reason to hip shoot (IMHO) is when someone is on top of you and extending the firearm may lead to a disarm. It's just as quick to get your weapon up and in your line of sight as it is to hip shoot. Gets you way better hits too.

 

[themic]

it's really not all that hard.

probably even easier with a 20ga shotgun or small bore rifle

i play most of paintball shooting low or from the hip, which is where i really got good at this. lets me have visibility and you have the additional factor of seeing your paintballs fly... but after a bit you don't need to track and adjust anymore, you just do, on the first shot.

 

[sanchezero]

I prefer to shoot from a high retention position. I pull the gun up and tuck it in near my armpit; cant the slide slightly to the outside to prevent it from hanging up on anything.

I find this gives me a more natural point of aim, better recoil control and is overall a better postion to fight from.

 

[BerettaNut92]

The Brady center says you cause more damage when you fire from the hip

 

[Ol' Badger]

Skunky

Most of their responses are from the "Hip"

 

[Ledbetter]

Practice practice practice

"From the hip" doesn't work for me either. Bends the wrist unnaturally.

The way to get good at this without breaking your bank (like most shooting) is to practice your behind off with a .22, in this case shooting at ammo boxes on the ground in front of you without aiming: point shooting I guess. Chase them all around from 5 to 20 yards out.

Rangemasters hate this by the way. Also, watch out for ricochets.

 

[rebbryan]

what i've read about hip shooting is that with practice you can get good with it, but stop practicing and all of it will go away

 

[Art Eatman]

Dunno how it would work in real life, but I've done a drill where I start with my weakside hand on the "shoulder" of an IPSC target. I draw and fire the first shot as soon as I can rotate the pistol after drawing. I keep firing as I step back (and continue stepping back) and work into my usual Weaver stance. I've been able to keep eight rounds inside about a six-inch circle, most of the time. I guess my final shot is from around five yards or so.

(The muzzle blast of the first two or three shots sure does shred paper! )

I've tried this from a regular-carry belt holster, from my hip pocket, and from an IWB holster at the small of my back. For me, it seemed pretty easy to reliably hit with the first shots.

Art

 

[Soap]

What Sanchezero said.

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

So is the 'speed rock' the same thing as shooting from the hip?

I practiced the hip shooting thing a little in the past when I worked at a range and yeah it works but the target better be pretty darn close.

Oh yeah and what sanchezero said works pretty good also; does that grip and position actually have a name?

 

[Soap]

QBG, I've most commonly heard it referred to as "high retention position" or just "retention position".

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Hold the pistol in a two hand Isoc position. Now bend your arms until your elbows touch your lower ribcage. The pistol is now about at your navel area, but is still in the center of your body.
Try this both two and one handed up to 10 feet and get bact to us with the results.
Fairbairn called this "half Hip" and Rex Applegate later called it "Body Point."

 

[sanchezero]

I just wanted to comment on the speed rock.

My OPINION , is that it pretty much sucks. It's designed for super up close shooting, but the problem is the 'rock' part where you lean back to give the muzzle elevation. This throws you off balance and thats the last thing you want when you're likely to have to smack someone around before they bleed out.

I also feel that it's below par in the recoil management dept as there is very little structural strength in to entire body position.

Obviously, the speed rock has served some people well. I just believe it to be eclipsed by a high retention position.

 

[Sven]

I press my wrist into/under the bottom of my ribcage and angle the pistol slightly outward, then lean very slightly back. It's easy to be relatively accurate at close range - I'm a beginner and did a good job - all in the chest.

You can feel the muzzle blast off the target - pretty cool.

I've been taught to be prepared to follow up with the head shot if there's failure to stop with those first two in the chest - after stepping back and assuming a normal position, as described above.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

When a pistol fight is up close, the last thing you want to do is lean back. Which is why the speed rock does indeed "suck"
Actually you should be moving into the enemy, firing all the time.

 

[Al Thompson]

Matthew, no flame, but why would you advance on a gun? Seems to me that one would do better to seek cover as opposed to moving into what Clint Smith termed "The Hole".

One of the problems (IMHO) with a true speed rock is that balance thing. I think Gabe Saurez made a good point about getting off line from your opponent.

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Ok so this confirms what I’d already thought; the speed rock looks to put the shooter wildly off-balance. I like the ‘retention position’ but found out the hard was that it’s best suited for semi-autos; got some permanent powder burns on a shirt from the cylinder gap on my S&W 637.

I don't know if I'd advance on the bad guy, at least not directly- I've always trained to shoot then move, perhaps not forward but at least laterally.

I've been taught to be prepared to follow up with the head shot if there's failure to stop with those first two in the chest

Oh yeah, the 'automatic failure to comply' drill. Sunnyvale DPS trains for this as doctrine but I've always been in the 'continue firing into center of mass until threat in ended' school.

 

[Al Thompson]

.25/10G, what if the BG is wearing body armor or up on a drug where pain dosen't make them quit? IMHO, tthat's when it's time for a CNS hit.

Matthew, rereading your post, how close would a close range gunfight be IYO?

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Al- you are correct; there are always exceptions and yeah a bad guy w/body armor and/or chemical induced super powers would certainly fit into the 'exception' catagory.


Mmmm. Next range visit I'm going to have to see what I can do to amend my training regime... never hurts to have some other options.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Al..no flame intended. But when the range is very close (within 7 feet or so) and you are shooting it out, your safest course of action is to charge into the enemy, while rapidly returning fire.
It's the same military principle as breaking an ambush.
It may be the last thing we want to do, but it is a proven combat principle.

 

[carloponti]

hip shooting

actually hip shooting is fairly easy to accomplish. just remember that you point with your hips. you actually index with your hips. this is precisely how this is taught if it is taught correctly. try it and see.
carloponti

 

[Al Thompson]

Matthew, I'll agree with that. Sort of a new concept to me - but thinking about it, it makes sense. My take is that I'd try to use my weak hand to control the BG or his weapon until what ever I'm shooting takes effect.

 

[CWL]

I'd disagree.
In non-military encounters, the purpose of SD is to protect & survive. If possible, always remain moving and remove yourself from the threat.

Objects in motion are harder to acquire & hit, especially if they are moving away at 10yds/sec+.

Moving into an aggressor is bad juju. I am always armed with a blade(s) and you have just entered into my comfort zone for HTH.

Students of the blade (I do Kali) can make ~10 critical area strikes with a blade in the same time it takes to do 1-2 shots in this range. At most you are trading damage.

I would never even think of approaching a 17-year old speed freak. That guy is so numbed to pain and his speed would counter my 15+ years of martials arts practice.