Edward429451
member
I'm guessing its because alot of people have to work on Saturday.
Shooting Practice v. Religion
- Thread starter VaughnT
- Start date
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I'm guessing its because alot of people have to work on Saturday.
MrAcheson
Member
Have to agree with your friends. I will not skip church on a regular basis for anything. Period. Not for shooting. Not for my girlfriend. I feel that if I did so I would be putting that thing before God. God is infinitely more important than whatever that thing is.
Your mileage may vary however. I think there are people who can skip church regularly and not have the same problems. I am not one of them.
I will occasionally skip church because of some random occurance or special occasion, but I will not plan to do so on a regular basis.
Your mileage may vary however. I think there are people who can skip church regularly and not have the same problems. I am not one of them.
I will occasionally skip church because of some random occurance or special occasion, but I will not plan to do so on a regular basis.
Bostonterrier97
Member
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- Dec 25, 2002
- Messages
- 211
If they have internet access they go to www.fccchurch.com and have worship 24/7.
It isn't the same as going to a real church in person, but it will do in a pinch.
It isn't the same as going to a real church in person, but it will do in a pinch.
I suggest finding some new friends! Think about it, do you REALLY want to be in the same area with someone that has a gun AND believes that there are demons and angels fighting for his soul? Sounds like a bunch of wack jobs to me. I don't trust people that would rather go to church than go shooting.
There is something basically wrong with a person that willingly spends their Sunday sitting in a chruch listening to someone tell them they are going to go to hell and then hit them up for cash every half hour.
There is something basically wrong with a person that willingly spends their Sunday sitting in a chruch listening to someone tell them they are going to go to hell and then hit them up for cash every half hour.Buzz_Knox,
By getting together with other believers during the week.
The command isn't, "get yourself inside a church building once a week no matter what."
The instruction is, "don't neglect getting together with other believers."
That's how.
pax
Setting aside the scandal caused by His Messianic claims and His reputation as a political firebrand, only two accusations of personal depravity seem to have been brought against Jesus of Nazareth. First, that He was a Sabbath-breaker. Secondly, that He was "a gluttonous man and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners" -- or (to draw aside the veil of Elizabethan English that makes it sound so much more respectable) that He ate too heartily, drank too freely, and kept very disreputable company, including grafters of the lowest type and ladies who were no better than they should be. For nineteen and a half centuries, the Christian Churches have laboured, not without success, to remove this unfortunate impression made by their Lord and Master. They have hustled the Magdalens from the Communion-table, founded Total Abstinence Societies in the name of Him who made the water wine, and added improvements of their own, such as various bans and anathemas upon dancing and theatre-going. They have transferred the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, and, feeling that the original commandment "Thou shalt not work" was rather half-hearted, have added to it the new commandment, "Thou shalt not play." -- Dorothy L. Sayers
By getting together with other believers during the week.
The command isn't, "get yourself inside a church building once a week no matter what."
The instruction is, "don't neglect getting together with other believers."
That's how.
pax
Setting aside the scandal caused by His Messianic claims and His reputation as a political firebrand, only two accusations of personal depravity seem to have been brought against Jesus of Nazareth. First, that He was a Sabbath-breaker. Secondly, that He was "a gluttonous man and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners" -- or (to draw aside the veil of Elizabethan English that makes it sound so much more respectable) that He ate too heartily, drank too freely, and kept very disreputable company, including grafters of the lowest type and ladies who were no better than they should be. For nineteen and a half centuries, the Christian Churches have laboured, not without success, to remove this unfortunate impression made by their Lord and Master. They have hustled the Magdalens from the Communion-table, founded Total Abstinence Societies in the name of Him who made the water wine, and added improvements of their own, such as various bans and anathemas upon dancing and theatre-going. They have transferred the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, and, feeling that the original commandment "Thou shalt not work" was rather half-hearted, have added to it the new commandment, "Thou shalt not play." -- Dorothy L. Sayers
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DadOfThree
Member
Firestar,
No need to get ugly or it will get shut down.
No need to get ugly or it will get shut down.
sm
member
I'm not a shining example. What's new huh?
I grew up a certain way, I don't always agree with some doctrines. I figure its between me and my perception of a Power Greater than myself. I used to work Sunday's, before that I competed almost every weekend. Preacher basically told me a church is a bldg where people gather. A Higher Power is where 2 or 3 are gathered in His name.
"What...no match today?" Yeah heard that a lot. I at least was honest. Personal responsibility - yep I'm responsible -way I figure it. Just like the Judge whom was a deacon ,whom is in Fed prison for his actions. Or the Deacon ,whom had his wife catch him with his secretary.
Not uncommon for a gathering , a time of recognition before a tourney. Shot with a few "men of the cloth" on Sunday's too.
I grew up a certain way, I don't always agree with some doctrines. I figure its between me and my perception of a Power Greater than myself. I used to work Sunday's, before that I competed almost every weekend. Preacher basically told me a church is a bldg where people gather. A Higher Power is where 2 or 3 are gathered in His name.
"What...no match today?" Yeah heard that a lot. I at least was honest. Personal responsibility - yep I'm responsible -way I figure it. Just like the Judge whom was a deacon ,whom is in Fed prison for his actions. Or the Deacon ,whom had his wife catch him with his secretary.
Not uncommon for a gathering , a time of recognition before a tourney. Shot with a few "men of the cloth" on Sunday's too.
MeekandMild
Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2002
- Messages
- 1,877
OTOH maybe the friends hava a life outside the range and they are using the word "church" as a standin for the word "the rest of my life". 
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Hmmm. I've skipped church every Sunday for years in order to staff an emergency room. You know, in case you have a heart attack while you're attending church. So do many of my friends.
Who thinks we ought to stop staffing that hospital and go to church instead?
Real curious about that.
On the other hand, the clubs need to schedule the Sunday shoots to start about 1:30PM and accommodate the evening churchgoers by letting them shoot first in the competitions. The clubs might be surprised how many folks start showing up after a while.
Preacherman
Member
This is your friendly moderator speaking, who happens to be a pastor, and is therefore not exactly an unbiased observer, but hey - you're stuck with me!
Please keep religious controversy out of this thread (and others). I have no problem with a discussion of the problem of scheduling shooting (matches, practice, hunting, whatever) into a program already occupied by church (or work, or home, or mowing the lawn, or whatever). However, please don't take shots at others' beliefs, or I shall be shooting at this thread - and my first shot is guaranteed to take it down!
Thanks, and enjoy the discussion.
Please keep religious controversy out of this thread (and others). I have no problem with a discussion of the problem of scheduling shooting (matches, practice, hunting, whatever) into a program already occupied by church (or work, or home, or mowing the lawn, or whatever). However, please don't take shots at others' beliefs, or I shall be shooting at this thread - and my first shot is guaranteed to take it down!
Thanks, and enjoy the discussion.
synoptic
Member
Religion is a decision you make in your life, as is shooting, working, etc... Why should clubs stop holding matches on sunday to appease the churchgoers? Should churches start holding services other days to appease the competitive shooter, even though some do, the answer is they shouldn't if they don't want to. If you believe that you have to go to church every sunday then find a club that shoots on saturdays, I'll bet there are more than a few christian gun clubs out there that don't shoot on sundays. If you believe that you can worship whenever you want and don't need to go to church then it doesn't really matter when your club shoots. We would not like someone else to come tell us what our beliefs should be, let's not tell others what we think they should believe. Depending on your friendship with these people you will either make arrangements for them or find new friends. My girlfriend's best friend attends church every sunday. if she comes with us somewhere or comes to visit then we are sure to get her home before the sunday evening service. It is a pain in the butt sometimes but it is either that or she does not come hang out with us. She also compromises by missing the morning service (she usually goes to both). I believe when it comes to religion noone is right or wrong. it is the style of life you choose to live.
ScottsGT
Member
One other aspect to think about, noise. If there are churchs around a range. I myself, will not go to the farm to shoot on a Sunday morning/early afternoon because there is a small rural church that we actuall have to drive thru their parking lot to get to the gate of the farm. Even though I'm being a "heathean", I'm not going to disrupt a nearby church service with a .308 or .30-'06. I save those times for fishin'!
sm
member
Yep, I was in the main OR for many years. ED has to have us around on Sunday too. We did a quite a few heart surgeries on Sundays.
Its a personal choice, we are each responsible for our choices, regardless of subject matter.
Sure, some clubs are better than some at scheduling. Some have a "service" before the match. I have shot with men of the cloth, mostly they arrived in the afternoon. I have had a few shoot in the morning. Maybe b/t churches, still in the Seminary...not picked up by a church, a particular type of faith....
"If one sees he can still do things and have a faith , perhaps more will be inclined to consider faith".
" If a hobby turns into a idol it replaces one percetion of a "Higher Power".
Just two things I have shared with those in better standing with a Higher Power than myself.
Preacherman I hope I skated by on this post--told ya --not a shining example
Its a personal choice, we are each responsible for our choices, regardless of subject matter.
Sure, some clubs are better than some at scheduling. Some have a "service" before the match. I have shot with men of the cloth, mostly they arrived in the afternoon. I have had a few shoot in the morning. Maybe b/t churches, still in the Seminary...not picked up by a church, a particular type of faith....
"If one sees he can still do things and have a faith , perhaps more will be inclined to consider faith".
" If a hobby turns into a idol it replaces one percetion of a "Higher Power".
Just two things I have shared with those in better standing with a Higher Power than myself.
Preacherman I hope I skated by on this post--told ya --not a shining example
aerod1
Member
Five of us from my Church went to the Tulsa gun show on a Saturday AND Sunday. Two folks in our group were our church administrator and a member of our vestry (deacon). We go every Sunday but when we want to go to a show or have a shooting event or deer hunting scheduled for that time, we feel it is OK to skip once in awhile. I think God is just and understanding.
Jim Hall
Jim Hall
Country Boy
Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2002
- Messages
- 260
I really think your club is missing the boat by having their meets on Sunday mornings. Even if the club pushed back their meet until 11 or 12, it would give people an opportunity to go to an earlier service, and keep them from having to make a value decision they don't want to make.
Why were meets scheduled for Sunday mornings anyway?
Why were meets scheduled for Sunday mornings anyway?
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
If God isn't loving, understanding & forgiving...
If he can't tolerate a few skips here and there....
Then we're all pretty screwed, no matter what we do or don't.
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Last time I was in a church, other than my own wedding: uh...1985?
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If he can't tolerate a few skips here and there....
Then we're all pretty screwed, no matter what we do or don't.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Last time I was in a church, other than my own wedding: uh...1985?
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BerettaNut92
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Messages
- 9,723
Preacherperson: "or I shall be shooting at this thread - and my first shot is guaranteed to take it down!"
9mm or .45ACP?? What if your barrel is dented and the gun kB!'s?
Um, I guess this is something that's close to home for me. I try not to go overboard and skip church even though that's when my favorite matches are--the steel target matches and tactical 3-gun which is my only opportunity to dress up in my Ninja outfit.
I have to make little sacrifices and shoot IPSC and IDPA instead. Sure I have fun. Not as much fun, but it's still something.
I skip church once in a while if I have a Sunday class or a big match but try not to overdo it.
Sabbath being made for Man (and women) and all, I try not to get legalistic (go to hell if I have a less than 50% attendance rate) but just try to use sound judgment.
9mm or .45ACP?? What if your barrel is dented and the gun kB!'s?
Um, I guess this is something that's close to home for me. I try not to go overboard and skip church even though that's when my favorite matches are--the steel target matches and tactical 3-gun which is my only opportunity to dress up in my Ninja outfit.
I have to make little sacrifices and shoot IPSC and IDPA instead. Sure I have fun. Not as much fun, but it's still something.
I skip church once in a while if I have a Sunday class or a big match but try not to overdo it.
Sabbath being made for Man (and women) and all, I try not to get legalistic (go to hell if I have a less than 50% attendance rate) but just try to use sound judgment.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
My experience is the same as the original post. The IDPA around here holds ALL its functions on Sunday morning. My shooting club (and all the others nearby) holds its official meeting the second Sunday of every month at 10:00 am. Most of the other sport shooting events are on Sunday, beginning in the morning.
I choose church over participating in these events 99.99% of the time. I, too, wish I could do both. It's a shame.
I choose church over participating in these events 99.99% of the time. I, too, wish I could do both.
It's a shame.tech
Member
You just need Balance.
Mike
Mike
George Hill
Member
BYU sports teams don't play on Sundays. Does that make them any less of a Team? Careful now, BYU Football was #1 not too long ago.
VaughnT
Member
Let me thank you all for such great posts.
I wish my club could reschedule their events, but the weekends are booked solid. If it's not IDPA, it's IPSC or 3-gun or long-range rifle. There is always something happening on Saturday or Sunday.
I'm not asking them to skip every sunday. If they'll come to the match on the second sunday, they can shoot IDPA and possibly learn something that could keep them alive to go to church for a few more years. Of course, this argument was recently knocked down with, "If I die, I'll be going to a great Church on sunday!" Sounds rather fatalistic to me.
Second to that is I might need their shooting skills to pull my bacon out of the fire someday. I really get annoyed that they talk the talk but can't walk the walk. If I die because of their ineptitude, I'm gonna haunt them forever!!!
And on top of all that, it seems like I have to make everything easy for them. I bought the club membership; I provide eye/ear protection; I even buy lunch/breakfast that day. There might be a Saturday shoot somewhere, but I have to work that day and don't get off until way late. Heck, I have to work sundays because the majority of our employees refuse to work on the Sabbath!
Here's a good story to illustrate my point:
One employee, a girl, asked if I'd take her down to the range to practice. She wasn't that good and wanted to learn how to be better. Truth be told, she sucked something awful. I've never seen such poor shooting and personally believe she was hired to meet some quota as I find it very difficult to believe she could have passed the firearms qualification. There's a big difference between passing and being passed!
Anyhow, we agreed that our Wedn. schedules worked out right and that would be our day. Every Wedn. for three months we had a standing appointment and she improved dramatically. It was really nice to see someone make that commitment and come through. She got to where you could put 35+/50 into the ribs of badguy at 25yds. Compare that to putting 5 out of 100 when we first tried it.
She made the commitment. She blew threw a ton of ammo. She improved dramatically.
These guys talk like they're hotshots, but when we get down to the range, they suck. We're just doing bullseye shooting at the 25yd line and they're putting holes all over the B27. The difference between me and them? I'm down at the range a lot and have a lot of time behind the trigger. Just that little bit of practice has seen me improve incredibly, though I still need to work on my draw and transitioning between multiple targets.
Long story short: I'm just asking for one Sunday out of the month. Not every month, even. Sunday just happens to be the best day for me because it is the shortest workday. I'll be happy to go down on a Monday or Thursday or whenever, but I seem to be the one doing all the sacrificing.
Rambled on a bit. Better sign off. Thanks a bunch for the insight.
I wish my club could reschedule their events, but the weekends are booked solid. If it's not IDPA, it's IPSC or 3-gun or long-range rifle. There is always something happening on Saturday or Sunday.
I'm not asking them to skip every sunday. If they'll come to the match on the second sunday, they can shoot IDPA and possibly learn something that could keep them alive to go to church for a few more years. Of course, this argument was recently knocked down with, "If I die, I'll be going to a great Church on sunday!" Sounds rather fatalistic to me.
Second to that is I might need their shooting skills to pull my bacon out of the fire someday. I really get annoyed that they talk the talk but can't walk the walk. If I die because of their ineptitude, I'm gonna haunt them forever!!!
And on top of all that, it seems like I have to make everything easy for them. I bought the club membership; I provide eye/ear protection; I even buy lunch/breakfast that day. There might be a Saturday shoot somewhere, but I have to work that day and don't get off until way late. Heck, I have to work sundays because the majority of our employees refuse to work on the Sabbath!
Here's a good story to illustrate my point:
One employee, a girl, asked if I'd take her down to the range to practice. She wasn't that good and wanted to learn how to be better. Truth be told, she sucked something awful. I've never seen such poor shooting and personally believe she was hired to meet some quota as I find it very difficult to believe she could have passed the firearms qualification. There's a big difference between passing and being passed!
Anyhow, we agreed that our Wedn. schedules worked out right and that would be our day. Every Wedn. for three months we had a standing appointment and she improved dramatically. It was really nice to see someone make that commitment and come through. She got to where you could put 35+/50 into the ribs of badguy at 25yds. Compare that to putting 5 out of 100 when we first tried it.
She made the commitment. She blew threw a ton of ammo. She improved dramatically.
These guys talk like they're hotshots, but when we get down to the range, they suck. We're just doing bullseye shooting at the 25yd line and they're putting holes all over the B27. The difference between me and them? I'm down at the range a lot and have a lot of time behind the trigger. Just that little bit of practice has seen me improve incredibly, though I still need to work on my draw and transitioning between multiple targets.
Long story short: I'm just asking for one Sunday out of the month. Not every month, even. Sunday just happens to be the best day for me because it is the shortest workday. I'll be happy to go down on a Monday or Thursday or whenever, but I seem to be the one doing all the sacrificing.
Rambled on a bit. Better sign off. Thanks a bunch for the insight.
SodaPop
member
It depends on your religion. For Catholics, mass is considered to be an "obligation" and not something you can do whenever.
Actually, most Catholics in my area have been telling our priests that they are going to hell.
Actually, most Catholics in my area have been telling our priests that they are going to hell.
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