Shooting Practice v. Religion

[mattjoe]

Having been forced to make the decision between church and shooting for many years, i think the reason clubs hold sunday morning matches is primarily for the set up crew. The elaborate matches held by Uspsa/ipsc, 3gun, CAS/SASS and to a slightly lesser extent, idpa, really aren't something you can just throw up and be ready to shoot in an hour with limited help.
I've done set up and run matches now for 3 yrs and am about to start the 4th yr.
Set up used to take place on saturday with props and courses of fire laid out, and checked and rechecked and adjusted over and over again looking for shoot throughs and the like. That stuff takes time. I was not a fan of losing both weekend days to the match, so lobbied for us to move everything to Sunday. The set up crew now arrives very early on sundays, we set up, and what was once a huge lack of help began to be supplemented by early arriving competitors who pitched in to lend a hand so the match could be both better, and get all set up on time.
I think you don't see many saturday matches because, like was mentioned earlier, there are many who work saturdays, and for the big clubs who set up intricate matches, the staff generally cant be taking off friday's so they can go set up for the match, they need the saturday set up.
Our matches have gone from one of the most elaborate set up stages to probably the least prop intensive matches in the uspsa circuit in the northeast section of area 7.

Other reasons are probably yard work and errands that need to get done on saturday if you want to go play sunday.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

My church offers a morning and evening service. Saturday night also. Sometimes even during the week, such as Lent or Advent, and sometimes summer evening services. Our Pastor tries to accomodate everybody, though, of course, this is oft times fruitless. Naturally the services come or go with their popularity. I see it as the Pastor treating his responsibility for his members' Spiritual upbringing with the utmost importance and I applaud his tenacity in this regard. My wife has been ill for a great many years, and finds it hard to be ready for church in the morning. Evening services, especially during the week are top-notch for us, though we generally find a service sometime during the week that fits. Needless to say, I've spent many a Sunday morning at the range, though I'm a firm believer that Almighty God will be holding a seat for me in that greatest of shooting matches in the sky.

 

[MeekandMild]

WARNING Paradigm Shift Ahead:

Of course there is an entirely nonreligious problem here. Why is everything important in life crowded into Saturday and Sunday? The reason is Americans with jobs work about a third more than Europeans and Latinos. I attribute this a great deal to the fact that too few of us are working too hard.

If we started having three hour siestas from work and took a Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon off like the rest of the world we'd have lots of time for shooting matches in the middle of the week where they belong.

All it would take is to cut taxes in half then all the folks who suddenly aren't getting a free handout could be invited to share the work. There is plenty of work to go around don't you think?

 

[JShirley]

Heck, God doesn't have any problem with when I shoot: just what I shot, and why.

(My pastor had someone fill in for him about two months ago, and he was off hunting with his sons. )

 

[Horsesense]

If you will go with me this Sunday, I will go with you next.

 

[StressPuppy]

I agree that this should not be a religious discussion, so I will try to take a little different angle.

If you are trying to CONVINCE your friend that it is ok to not do something he/she is committed to and feels comfortable with, aren't you imposing quite a bit? How about if someone tried to convince you that it was ok for you not to have a gun. Nobody will ever attack you. And no one will know you don't have a gun. I won't tell. You'll be fine with out it. You have probably heard this and it won't change your view. Kind of annoying though, isn't it? So they should just stop bringing it up, right?

On the flip side, I wouldn't think it appropriate for your friend to try to convince you to forego your activity and join him in his. If it is mentioned once and you decline, then he has done his part but now knows your position. You know his position. You should both respect each others point of view.

Having the ability to have different views about such things is what makes this country what it is! I may not agree with someone's view, but I am very glad that we live were we do so that we are able to share that with out fear of serious incident.

Personally, I don't shoot on Sundays as it is a church day and a family day as well as the Christian day of rest. But I don't try to convince those in this area that do shoot on Sunday not to shoot because I think they are doing something wrong. We all have choices and as long as it doesn't infringe on my rights (or yours), then so be it.

What you are talking about is not an infringement, but an inconvenience to you. Completely different issue. See if you can't find another time to get your schedules to match up and go shooting. I have plenty of people that I shoot with that know I don't shoot on Sundays, but we find plenty of other opportunities to shoot. There are even IDPA clubs here that will let me come help them setup the match they are planning for a Sunday on Saturday afternoon and shoot it then. We both benefit. It is all in how we work together to get along and not in how we try to change each other.

Ok, so it turn a little religious and preachy. Sorry.

 

[Autolite]

Just Ask Youself One Question ...

WWJMBD ???

 

[BerettaNut92]

Who was the member with the sig line, "I know you didn't see me at church on Sunday, I was teaching a lesbian how to shoot"?

 

[rick458]

it is a sticky wicket
I work shift work so I work 2 sundays out of the month, I dearly love going to church with my family, both Blood and Church, as it recharges the batteries so to speak.
most Saturdays are full of the Kids games and Tournements etc..
not to mention all the other matches.
that said one sunday out of the month, will not send you to hell,
and if the church has an Hour of Power or other Prayer time during the week, you could be with God in that setting (not that you can't be with him anywhere at anytime).
I would love to shoot competitvely but have a hard time getting the time to, between 12 hour shifts and an 18 month old daugther, and the rest of the family

 

[stevelyn]

Shooting is my religion. My "Bible" is the revised authorized Boston T. Party version.

 

[gun-fucious]

Every blessed spire point and round nose is a devotion in the Church of the M.O.A.

Vibrate the earth with his righteous thunder!

 

[cratz2]

I think someone committed to attending Sunday services is going to surely attend those Sunday services. I obviously can't speak for God, but between church and shooting holes in things, church comes first. Take out time for work, time for family, time for sleep, time for cleaning and time for church, anyone should be able to find a couple hours a week to go to the range.

Funny... most of the matches around here are on Saturdays.

 

[Correia]

Here in Utah almost all of our matches are on Saturday. Go figure.

 

[RustyHammer]

... and how many Monks does it take to load a Howitzer?

 

[one-shot-one]

forgive

to answer your direct question:
god will forgive.
the real question is can you forgive yourself, if you do something that you belive is wrong?
if these people have true convictions about missing church don't pressure them, compromise on your end once and then decide if you want to continue to shoot with them bad enough to keep compromising.

 

[kannonfyre]

What about a gun friendly chruch?

I read somewhere that in olde England, archery practice on sunday was compulsory whereas church was not. Please don't flame me and I'm not trying to imply anything but I wonder what would happen if US law made it compulsory for every man and woman above the age of 16 to attend AR and pistol training for 2 hours every sunday? (If the USA was under threat of territorial invasion.)

Better yet, what about a gun friendly chruch. Why not have mass at a chapel or church near the range and then have all interested people retire to the shooting range after services are over? Ammo could be passed out at the door upon exiting.

 

[mattjoe]

i'd love to go to an openly gun friendly church

and the second collection today will fund the purchase of 5 more cases of 223....

 

[blades67]

I read this thread and then I asked God. God, I asked, do you have a problem with folks shooting on Sunday's instead of going to church? I wasn't sure how he would show me His answer, but as I was walking past my coffee table a piece of paper fell off and landed beside my foot. I picked it up to see what it was. It was a church bulletin opened to the services schedule, and there was his answer! Saturday evening service at 18:00.

 

[bigjim]

Convert to Islam. You can worship and shoot at the same time.

 

[jsalcedo]

Churches would see a jump in attendance if there was a shooting range, barbecue, pony rides, and a midway.

 

[VaughnT]

I think compromise is the answer, but these folks just don't want to do it. Not only is Sunday the day of competitions, but it is the one day most convenient to all of us. While I work on Sundays, because of their religious beliefs, it is a short day and the summer leaves plenty of daylight afterwards for shooting.

Because they are automatically off on that day, they can meet me at the range. If we try to schedule another day, we have to figure out when our work schedules and personal schedules match well enough for a few hours of trigger time. That's mighty hard to do. We might have decent work hours, but family obligations kill the after-work time. If the after-work time is good, our work schedules conflict.

Sunday is just the best day for all concerned but there is this idea that Church is the endall and beall and there's nothing to be done.

Unless I make a sacrifice and agree to drive all the damn way on my day off, buy them dinner, provide the range and assorted gear.... Heck, I just bought a metal target stand so we could do some close-up shooting! What have they bought? NADA!!!

I guess there really isn't an answer to the problem. I'm just pissed that I can't convince my coworkers of the importance of practicing with their guns. Either you're a shooter or your not.

 

[garrettwc]

I would like to point out what to me seems like an obvious answer.

Why not combine the two?

My other vice after shooting would be auto racing. 90% or more of the races are run on Sundays. And not coincidentally, guys who travel inches apart at 200+ value their relationship with God.

Their solution? The larger tracks have a permanent chapel, and the small ones set up an old fashioned tent. They have a chaplain that travels, or bring someone in and have church right there in the garage if need be.

Why couldn't shooters do this? The idea after all is the worship not the time or location. A small service in the morning before the match starts would be a good thing.

 

[ahadams]

sodapop: a number of Episcopalians have been telling their priests the same thing! That's why many of us call ourselves Anglicans now.

Perhaps I missed something, but nobody seems to have invoked (even if you wont pardon the expression) the militia model.

Historically the militia brought their muskets to church and stacked them outside. I think it says quite a bit that none of the early descriptions of this activity ever mention having to post a guard to make sure all the muskets were there when they returned. Then *after* the service the militia would meet and drill on the village green - this was not seen as breaking the sabbath, but rather as a good use of the time. While the militia went through their training drills, the other folks ate whatever they had brought for lunch. This provided good PR for the militia to recruit new members, and it also allowed the local elligable ladies to scope out their male counterparts in a discreet manner.

In other words, if for some reason they can't find a church from their denomination that has a Saturday evening service, than how about scheduling your shooting for *after* the early service Sunday Morning?

I personally avoid doing that sort of thing on Sunday, but some others might not see it that way.

 

[kannonfyre]

If only we had more gun friendly chaplins, priests, deacons, pastors or vicars. U know that you're in good company when you hear this from the preacher.....

....Our Father in Heaven,
Hallowed be thy name,
give us today our daily AMMO,
and forgive us for our inaccuracy,
as we promise not to mock the inaccuracy of others,

bring us not to the time of complete semi-auto ban,
but enlighten our leftist countrymen to the glory of the second amendment,

for thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory,
forever and ever, Ahem!

Now let's go SHOOTIN' people! .308, 7.62 x 39, .223, 9mm, 38 Special and .45 ACP bought with last months surplus collections are available from the choir at your request.

Now let's remember the four rules as y'all remember the 10 commandments!

 

[jthuang]

My vote goes to asking the match directors if they will move the match times to later on Sunday so they can go to church and then go to the match.

Around my area most IDPA matches start around 1 PM on Sunday. They did this intentionally so people can go to church and then go to the range.

Unfortunately for me, I live around 1.5 hours from the match locations. But I'm lucky to have Mass services available at 5 PM and 10 PM (!!!) so I can shoot and then go to church.

Justin