I know trying to explain felt recoil is very subjective. I would like to know what it feels like to shoot a stout load from a single shot rifle. I have an H&R in a 44mag which has some kick but not obnoxious. Could the 45-70 be compared to a 12g slug or buckshot? Thanks
Shooting the 45-70 Government.
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Abel
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I would say that its like shooting a 45 caliber muzzle loader. Its more than an '06.
What's stout?
There's really no reason to shoot anything hotter than a 520 grain lead bullet over 68 grains of black powder, or the smokeless equivalent.
Personally, I think the .45-70 is brutal off the bench, especially if it has a steel buttplate. I've taped an old Pachmayr onto a Sharps to sight it in, because my shoulder was getting really tender from being slammed.
However, I also think it's no sweat to shoot offhand, from sticks, seated, or any other position that allows your shoulder to roll with the gun. The recoil is a long, hard push, so your body can roll with it, as long as your body is in a position that allows it to move. It's a fun gun to shoot from those positions, and my shoulder has never complained at all, even with a steel buttplate.
Those old crescent buttplates work well, because they enforce proper hold. If you don't hold a rifle right, a .45-70 will let you know! However, if you use proper technique, it's fun to shoot.
There's really no reason to shoot anything hotter than a 520 grain lead bullet over 68 grains of black powder, or the smokeless equivalent.
Personally, I think the .45-70 is brutal off the bench, especially if it has a steel buttplate. I've taped an old Pachmayr onto a Sharps to sight it in, because my shoulder was getting really tender from being slammed.
However, I also think it's no sweat to shoot offhand, from sticks, seated, or any other position that allows your shoulder to roll with the gun. The recoil is a long, hard push, so your body can roll with it, as long as your body is in a position that allows it to move. It's a fun gun to shoot from those positions, and my shoulder has never complained at all, even with a steel buttplate.
Those old crescent buttplates work well, because they enforce proper hold. If you don't hold a rifle right, a .45-70 will let you know! However, if you use proper technique, it's fun to shoot.
earlthegoat2
Member
I did quite a bit of shooting with the 1895 rifle awhile back and used the hottest Buffalo Bore ammo they made 6 years ago. Cannot remember exact numbers or specs. The gun had a recoil pad and the pistol grip stock.
It felt like a 3" slug out of a Remington 870.
It felt like a 3" slug out of a Remington 870.
Daveboone
Member
It can be very subjective: steel butt plate or rubber? Commercial loads or beefed up handloads? Speers reloading manual has three separate loading chapters for the 45-70: traditional, modern lever actions, and modern single shots (specificlly the Rugers and Brownings...I dont know how the NEF guns compare).
I allways shoot with my fall hunting coats on, sometimes with and extra pad. My upper level loads are comparable to a 12 gauge slug. I keep the sessions short. If you are even starting to be apprehensive or flinch, there is no purpose to keep shooting. You are already screwing up.
I allways shoot with my fall hunting coats on, sometimes with and extra pad. My upper level loads are comparable to a 12 gauge slug. I keep the sessions short. If you are even starting to be apprehensive or flinch, there is no purpose to keep shooting. You are already screwing up.
Maverick223
Member
It can be vicious, but like AB described above, it can be easily handled with proper technique. Lean into it, hold on tight, and just roll with the punches; do this and you will be fine. Stout loads are often less than fun from the bench, but the .45-70Govt. is no bench gun IMO.
exbiologist
Member
My first gun, as a 14 year old was a Marlin 1895. I bought Garrett 415 grain full house loads. They kicked hard. Harder than the .30-06s or 7mm Rem Mag that friends had.
I have a Marlin XLR in 45-70 and I love it. Don't be afraid of the recoil, its not bad. The biggest load I've shot out of it is a 520 grain hardcast from garrett. I'd say the recoil is more than a 30'06 but less than a 3" slug or my .375 H&H. The recoil is definitely manageable with loads like the lever evolution rounds. Definitely one of my favorite guns to shoot.
Snakum
Member
I have charts copied from somewhere that shows a 45-70 shooting a 300gr bullet having recoil energy of almost 24 pounds, which is a little harder than my 7mm RM shows with a 7 to 8 pound weapon (19fp or so). While an 870 shooting 3" slugs runs around 50fp. That's a pretty big difference. My 870s both have Remmy SuperCell pads but still, a full 3" buck or slug load really packs a whallop. Something you get used to, though. A day of 3-gun practice with something as relatively benign as low brass 2 and 3/4 birdshot rounds really shows up the next day.
So if a 45-70 is about half the recoil of an 870 with 3" loads, seems like with a good recoil pad it wouldn't be too hard to overcome.
So if a 45-70 is about half the recoil of an 870 with 3" loads, seems like with a good recoil pad it wouldn't be too hard to overcome.
Kurt S.
Member
Other folks here seem to call it differently, but recoil from my Marlin 1895- I usually shoot 405 grain lead or SP- feels to about like a 20 gauge shotgun with lowbrass field loads.
I think I had some rather warm 300 grain SP's that produced somewhat more felt recoil.
I think I had some rather warm 300 grain SP's that produced somewhat more felt recoil.
ricebasher302
Member
I shoot Leverevolutions out of my 1895 and would say they recoil similarly to a 1 oz. slug out of my 12 gauge 870. I've also shot some Buffalo Bore stuff that'll bruise you after a few rounds if you're behind it on a bench. Overall though, it's never done anything to me that I didn't see coming. You'll be fine.
VA27
Member
Start haunting the used gun racks.
Pick up a used 12ga H&R Topper. Should cost less than $80. Get a box of 3" premium slugs while you're there, any brand will do.
Take the gun home and cut the barrel off to 18.5". The gun will now weigh about 5lbs.
Got to the range and shoot as many of the slugs as you can stand.
Shooting the 45/70 will be pleasant by comparison.
Pick up a used 12ga H&R Topper. Should cost less than $80. Get a box of 3" premium slugs while you're there, any brand will do.
Take the gun home and cut the barrel off to 18.5". The gun will now weigh about 5lbs.
Got to the range and shoot as many of the slugs as you can stand.
Shooting the 45/70 will be pleasant by comparison.
Contrary to some peoples opinion is not necessary to get pounded with any 45/70. As an old bp cartridge it has lots of room for modern smokeless powder and some think they are missing out on something if they are not utilizing all of this. The 45/70 can be loaded to three different levels of powder. Not all rifles are strong enough to shoot level 2 or level 3 loads. On the other hand level 1 or trapdoor level loads are usually pussycats to shoot. Level 2 or Marlin level loads are a bit stouter and should not be shot in older guns. Eben these loads can be tamed by proper technique and appropriate recoil pads, either on the gun or strapped to your shoulder. My Handi rifle actually is more comfortable to shoot with these loads than my Marlin as I have added about a pound of lead shot to the bolt hole in the stock. I can only imagine what a level 3 or Ruger level load would feel like and really have no wish to find out. This is a fine old cartridge if you keep the loads to reasonable levels. If you wish to find how much pain your shoulder will stand the 45/70 will be glad to accommodate you. AS for me I gave up that way of thinking about 30 or so years ago.
RJ
AS for me I gave up that way of thinking about 30 or so years ago.RJ
MachIVshooter
Member
Then they're not that stout. Top loads are 400 or 405 grain bullets in excess of 2,000 FPS. The recoil from such loads (my favorite is a 405 at 2,015 FPS) is considerably more than a 12 ga. 3" mag. That load develops some 3,650 ft/lbs at the muzzle.
The definition of "stout load" is what is missing here.
If we are talking maximum loads for a Ruger no. 1 or no. 3, they generate significantly more recoil energy than a 12 gauge. Also, the straight comb design of the Ruger weapons significantly increases the felt recoil over the drop comb design of many shotguns. The net result is recoil that is out of the league of most 12 gauge loads.
If we are talking trapdoor loads the above does not apply and the 12 gauge has more recoil. If we are talking maximum Marlin leveraction loads, I think they are about equal to 3-inch magnum loads. I have shot them all and own two 45-70s, an 1885 Marlin and a custom Remington Rolling Block.
If we are talking maximum loads for a Ruger no. 1 or no. 3, they generate significantly more recoil energy than a 12 gauge. Also, the straight comb design of the Ruger weapons significantly increases the felt recoil over the drop comb design of many shotguns. The net result is recoil that is out of the league of most 12 gauge loads.
If we are talking trapdoor loads the above does not apply and the 12 gauge has more recoil. If we are talking maximum Marlin leveraction loads, I think they are about equal to 3-inch magnum loads. I have shot them all and own two 45-70s, an 1885 Marlin and a custom Remington Rolling Block.
Maverick223
Member
I assume that he is referring to a H&R class load (roughly equivalent to 1895 Marlin loads).
I doubt that you own a 1885 Marlin.
Ridgerunner665
Member
I shoot a Marlin 1895 loaded with 405 grain Beartooth LFN/GC's at 1,886 fps (50 grains of H322).
Thats a pretty warm load for a Marlin at around 38,000 psi...its as hot as I'll load a Marlin though you can go a tad hotter.
The recoil is very similar to a 12 gauge 3" magnum load when fired standing...from the bench or prone it feels like a 105mm Howitzer.
Thats a pretty warm load for a Marlin at around 38,000 psi...its as hot as I'll load a Marlin though you can go a tad hotter.
The recoil is very similar to a 12 gauge 3" magnum load when fired standing...from the bench or prone it feels like a 105mm Howitzer.
Apples and oranges. A 3.5 inch magnum load from a 12G is wicked. But the 2.75 inch shells (1.125 oz) that I use for targets and birds smaller than ducks are quite mild. Especially from a semi-auto. I don't think there's any way to make a 45-70 round "mild."
BHP FAN
Member
load up her up with black powder,and she's a kitten.
fireside44
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A 385 grain lead slug backed by a healthy charge of 4198 through a handi rifle is a killer.
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