Shooting with slight cant

[Sam1911]

Well, that is an interesting possibility. Never even crossed my mind to do it that way, but I suppose it would work.

If I was going for my BUG carried that way, I'd either be needing to fire it immediately, up close, and one-handed from retention -- or, if I had more time, I'd draw weak-handed but bring it into my normal strong-hand dominant hold at position 3 of the draw. I'd do that because I know I'm more accurate and have more control with that grip, but you might not be so and/or it might not matter to you.

 

[Skribs]

I'm right-hand, left-eye, so I'm actually very comfortable with the RH (weak hand as far as shooting is concerned) grip.

 

[BCRider]

I don't see anything that jumps out in the replies so far about body positioning when shooting one handed.

Sam's reply about a slight cant aiding in lining up the bones is how I feel it helps as well. And you can feel that when shooting.

But equally as important for accuracy and lining up bones is canting the body as well with a half step forward or back to angle the stance a little so the gun hand and shoulder are forward of the other. In effect assuming a sort of bullseye posture. Again it seems to line up the supporting bones in the arm and shoulder and chest to better present the gun and support the recoil. Especially when you're shooting with the side opposite your dominant eye. It seems to make it easier to line the sights and eye without a lot of odd angles at wrist, arm, shoulder and neck.

And then there's the whole question of what to do with the free hand when shooting one handed. Current teaching seems to feel that it's best to tension the free hand against the chest. Something about the stabilizing tension even in the free hand and arm making it easier to tension and steady the shooting hand.

When doing all this it's not uncommon for me to find that I'm able to shoot better with my left hand than my right. Yet I'm strongly right handed. Or it may be the extra care I take to get everything right simply because I'm shooting with my left hand and it just feels odd. Either way I've been surprised by my tight left hand groups on occasion where normally both right and left are about the same.

 

[GLOOB]

Long range accuracy will be affected by the cant for obvious reasons of ballistics and sight/bore offset.

Short range accuracy will be affected by any change in grip, especially using a revolver. Holding with a cant isn't necessarily bad. You may find you have a different POI when shooting lefthanded vs righthanded vs twohanded, cant or no, especially with a revolver that has some kick.

FWIW, I've never seen 10 meter pistol Olympians going ganster.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

But equally as important for accuracy and lining up bones is canting the body as well with a half step forward or back to angle the stance a little so the gun hand and shoulder are forward of the other. In effect assuming a sort of bullseye posture. Again it seems to line up the supporting bones in the arm and shoulder and chest to better present the gun and support the recoil. Especially when you're shooting with the side opposite your dominant eye. It seems to make it easier to line the sights and eye without a lot of odd angles at wrist, arm, shoulder and neck.

Agreed, but you want a few feet between you and a live target. I would say 6-8 feet minimum, as you will be stepping closer to the target.

 

[keithbayne]

the airplane scenarios is funny but dose not apply here.the barell is 360 degress round. it makes no difference if you hold the gun upside down,the bullet will still fly straight. there is no yaw,it dosent have all those angles and forces to overcome.if it does yaw,then it is key holing and you have a bad barell LOL

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

the airplane scenarios is funny but dose not apply here.the barell is 360 degress round. it makes no difference if you hold the gun upside down,the bullet will still fly straight. there is no yaw,it dosent have all those angles and forces to overcome.if it does yaw,then it is key holing and you have a bad barell LOL

Not entirely true. On most pistols the front sight is slightly shorter than the rear sight, causing the bullet to be launched at a slight upward trajectory. So, if you hold the gun upside down, the bullet will be launched slightly downwards.

 

[BCRider]

I think the airplane deal was simply to bring the idea of rolling and yawing of the gun itself into play and use something to illustrate the terms that might help make sense.

And as CCD mentions the guns are not made symetrically even if the barrel is round.

Hey CCD, I think you may have the lower and taller mixed up. On a revolver the barrel clearly has a downward slope at the muzzle with a taller front sight. Semis are all over the place from looking at them if you look at the top of the slide. However the one gun where I was able to insert a snug fitting wood dowel I found that the barrel had a significant downward cant at the muzzle compared to the line between the sights. But that may change depending on where in the beginning of the cycling and barrel unlocking that the bullet leaves the muzzle.

 

[Skribs]

the airplane scenarios is funny but dose not apply here.the barell is 360 degress round. it makes no difference if you hold the gun upside down,the bullet will still fly straight. there is no yaw,it dosent have all those angles and forces to overcome.if it does yaw,then it is key holing and you have a bad barell LOL

I agree with BC Rider, I think the plane was referenced so we could see the three types of rotation - pitch, yaw, and roll, and discuss how to hold the weapon. i.e. "slightly left" might mean yaw left or roll left.

 

[GLOOB]

Hey CCD, I think you may have the lower and taller mixed up. On a revolver the barrel clearly has a downward slope at the muzzle with a taller front sight.

True. This is because of recoil.

But it really depends on how far the gun is sighted in for. A revolver sighted in for 300+ yards will be the other way around.

What is important is that the bullet always LAUNCHES at a slightly upwards trajectory compared to the sight axis. This ensures the trajectory of the bullet meets or crosses the POA at some point.

Canting the gun turns some of your elevation into windage. So saying that canting the gun doesn't affect POI at all is totally false, unless you're shooting in a zero gravity environment. Anywhere on earth, canting the gun to the left will cause POI to shift low and left at long range, everything else equal (relative to absolute up and down; relative to the sights, the POI will shift high and left).

 

[Sam1911]

the airplane scenarios is funny but dose not apply here.the barell is 360 degress round. it makes no difference if you hold the gun upside down,the bullet will still fly straight. there is no yaw,it dosent have all those angles and forces to overcome.if it does yaw,then it is key holing and you have a bad barell LOL

Yikes! Holy "Missed-The-Point," Batman!

Yeah, we aren't talking about internal balistics here, or anything at all to do with how the bullet travels. Merely talking about the attitude of the gun itself, hanging in space, relative to the shooter's eye and true vertical.

Once more, note the selection of nouns, specifically "handgun," "eye," and "centerline."

When shooting a handgun cross-dominantly, but two-handed, you should YAW the gun to align the sights with your domiant eye. Roll should be neutral/zero.

When shooting one handed, you roll the gun towards your centerline a few degrees to allow your arm bones and muscles maximum stability and control.

No mention of the bore or the bullet or keyholing.

I do believe you're the only person in the thread who didn't understand the illustration as given.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I don't see anything that jumps out in the replies so far about body positioning when shooting one handed.

I used to switch back and forth as you describe...that is how it was taught. Just like we used to switch foot forward when shooting for different sides of barricades

I've stopped in the last few years as my testing showed that it made very little difference. It give folks a sense of security that they are doing something positive to stabilize the gun and align the body. But I have been able to prove it on a timer or on the paper.

I just extend it out like I would when shooting two handed, drop my elbow a bit and sink into my feet.

And then there's the whole question of what to do with the free hand when shooting one handed. Current teaching seems to feel that it's best to tension the free hand against the chest. Something about the stabilizing tension even in the free hand and arm making it easier to tension and steady the shooting hand.

I've seen this more in competition and I understand what they are trying to do...mostly not letting a dangling arm affect your shooting arm...but it is predicated on the belief that the off arm will affect the other.

I let the off arm hang like a limp rope...as if it have been disabled by gunfire...to move with it's own inertial. But then, I don't use tension to stabilize the shooting arm either

 

[BCRider]

With my slow fire bullseye shooting I did find that finding a nice natural body angle for one handed did help my own group sizes. A long time bullseye fella said to more or less stand like I'm going to shoot. Then close my eyes and relax. Then raise my arm as if I was raising the gun. Then open my eyes and see if my arm was in line with the target. With my original stance it was out by quite a bit. Once I adjusted my body to this "natural" pose my group sizes went down by a small but noticable amount consistently for the rest of the evening. This worked for me with both my Ruger Mk III and S&W 19. Now re-finding my "natural" angle is something I do at the beginning of most purely target shooting sessions.

If some gain a little from doing this and others don't it doesn't mean a whole lot I suppose. I do know it helps me. But then I sure as blazes need all the help I can get thanks to old guy eyes and nerves....

 

[Blackstone]

I just extend it out like I would when shooting two handed, drop my elbow a bit and sink into my feet.

So you shoot with the arm slightly bent, as opposed to both arms straight when shooting two handed? Assuming you use the isoceles normally

 

[9mmepiphany]

Yes, I do...to both questions...at least I try to