Shotgun or AR for Home Defense

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AR for me.

I have both, and a shotgun was my choice for longer, but that was due to $ restraints keeping me from getting into AR's.

The AR is shorter, lighter, has more range (it's not just an HD gun for me, it's an all purpose defensive arm), penetrates soft armour, less recoil and faster follow up shots, equal or less wall penetration, extremely effective on target, greater capacity...

That said my shotgun is still loaded and ready as well.
 
I'll keep my shotgun and a handgun or two loaded. You guys can use whatever tacticool flashlighted contraption you want. For me, I like the power of a shotgun, even 20 gauge, over a centerfire .22 rifle. But, then, I've been shooting shotguns and rifles for a long, long time.
 
I'll keep my shotgun and a handgun or two loaded. You guys can use whatever tacticool flashlighted contraption you want. For me, I like the power of a shotgun, even 20 gauge, over a centerfire .22 rifle. But, then, I've been shooting shotguns and rifles for a long, long time.

I suppose it wouldn't be the world wide web without some healthy condescension directed at those who choose differently than yourself, eh?
 
Recoil is probably the number one reason more people don't train with the shotgun.

When I teach Defensive Shotgun I devote an hour to shotgun control and reducing felt recoil, everything from "power stance" to ammo to shotgun modifications.

I am pretty passionate about the shotgun, and in some of my posts I might sound like I "poo-poo" the AR and its effectiveness, but it is a very effective tool and easier to shoot accurately due to greatly reduced felt recoil than the shotgun.

I know three people who are able to drink Shiner Bock with me today because shotguns saved their lives. I know about 100 people who are able to drink Shiner Bock with me today thanks to the AR/M4/M16.

Either one will stop a threat inside the house.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
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Warp nailed it, the AR does anything a shotgun can do, is more versatile, packs 30 rounds, and is effective to 400 M. I was a shotgun man until I took a carbine class, it opened my eyes to the versitality of a carbine, we engaged targets from 3 yards to 400, it shouldered as fast as my 20ga. Grouse gun, and packed twice the punch as my .45acp. :D
 
Yeah, it's only been 36 years of shooting experience for me, including many years of using a shotgun almost exclusively, so what the hell do I know? :rolleyes:

edited to add: was agreeing with Warp, but there were some simul-posts.

Leon, that's the highest recomendation I've heard you give for the M4.

John
 
There's an excellent account in Chris Bird's Thank God I Had a Gun, of Barbara Thompson, who saved her own life one night in a nursery in Fort Worth, TX, with a Winchester Defender 12 ga. I recommend the whole book, but that chapter shows that a shotgun can still do the job.

I do think, however, that in the outdoor setting, an AR with HP rounds and a very good weaponlight on the forend might have been even better.

Respectfully submitted,
Dirty Bob
 
The biggest things I've found to minimize recoil with the 12 gauge are as follows.

1. Do not shoot it in a bladed stance. Shoot it squared up to the target much like you would an ar 15. Shooting squared up makes for quicker follow up shots and reduces felt recoil.

2. Use low recoil (law enforcement) buck shot loads.

3. Buy a black hawk spec ops knoxx recoil reducing stock. It really does work.

Combine all three of these together and 12 gauge recoil is easily managed.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.
 
When you kill someone at 400 meters, I'll know it 'cause you'll quit posting 'cause they probably ain't gonna allow you web access in prison. :rolleyes: Besides, my house isn't 400 meters long.

I suppose it wouldn't be the world wide web without some healthy condescension directed at those who choose differently than yourself, eh?
 
Condescension is one thing, but murder from 400 meters? Come on, Texas is pretty good about use of deadly force. We have the castle doctrine, but 400 meters? Ask a lawyer, though. I'm no lawyer, just read the penal code a few times over for CCW classes and general knowledge. Anyway, if you'll look at the very title of this thread, it says "HOME DEFENSE". Even the Astrodome was only 410 feet or so straight away center field. That's about 130 meters, something like that?

At close range, a shotgun makes just shy of 3000 ft lbs, perhaps a little over with a 3" loads, but I'll stick to 2 3/4". A 223 makes half that. PLUS, each of 15 00 buck is .33" vs .22 for the rifle. PLUS, at close range, the 12 is more like a bullet than a shot pattern. 12 is simply devastating at close range any way you look at it and in MY house, I won't be shooting more'n 30 feet or so. All that said, I keep a 20 gauge coach gun at the ready with 3 buck, .25 caliber each, 20 in a cartridge. I really don't know the numbers on it, never worried about that. It's 55 caliber or something like that, why worry? Projectile is measured in ounces, not grains.

ARs will kill, that's for certain, if properly used. I find a shotgun easier to shoot because I shoot 'em a lot at small flying things and they fit me and they're quick and natural. I know that i've hit rabbits on the run with a .22 before, but I've also missed a lot. A shotgun gives me a better chance of eating fried cottontail. When things are moving, I do better with a shotgun...YMMV. I don't plan on shooting up my house with a 30 round magazine, figure firepower is best used for combat fire and maneuver and for that, you really need a SAW gunner. The shotgun is THE weapon for close up self defense IMHO. I mean, I'm not a trained ninja or anything, JMHO. This IS an opinion thread, is it not?

You wanna use a rifle in a house, go for it. It's almost a free country, still, despite DC. Just giving my opinion. I mean, I live out in the woods, no real threats other than coyotes going after my chickens. I don't really worry a lot about home invasion, but I am prepared, probably a paranoia from living in Corpus. I do own a few rifles, but no ARs. Closest thing I have to that are a couple of SKSs I bought back when they went for a hundred bucks a pop. Heckuva deal for a neat range toy. I've killed a couple of deer with the rifle, though I have better rifles. The paratrooper is just a range toy. I really don't desire an AR at all. You guys can have 'em. AGAIN, JMHO.

One thing about living out here, I have my own range and shoot nearly every day. It gives me lots of practice. There are houses around here and there, so when out back to tend to a feeder or check the hog trap, I take a shotgun a lot as bullets go up, they must come down. Well, that and it's easier to hit a running squirrel or rabbit, if I spook one up, with my shotgun. I've been hit by a 7.5 in the lip while dove hunting, didn't even make a mark. :D This applies to home defense only in that if you live in a neighborhood, you might think about projectiles flying around into peoples windows. I really don't worry about that out here, lots of room between houses. Most of the places around here are 10-20 acres and not many folks actually live out there, many places are just get aways for the Houston folks, hunting camps and such.
 
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While I did find your "I've been shooting...a long, long time" post condescending as some others did, I do believe that shotguns are only a real "first choice" for shooters who shoot shotgun more than anything else, and so have highly developed skill with it. So, if you shoot shotguns more than anything else, a properly fitted shotgun with good ammunition may indeed be the "best" choice for you.

John
 
Girodon,
Don't play the macho, sexist game. Thats very THR of you.

So I'm not allowed to critique your sexist statements and doing so is somehow not highroad!? There are moderators on this thread and I'm sure if they feel like I have violated a THR rule they can tell me.

It truly amazes me how (some) AR lovers want to jump all over someone when they say that an AR isn't the greatest gun for every situation of all time.

And it never ceases to amaze me that when people make inane contentions that are addressed on their merits that the person advocating it often retreats to childish ad hominems and tries to chalk any disagreement with their errant ideas as fanboyism or hating.

For the record I own multiple ARs but I own even more shotguns. I train with both and like both. Tryng to act as if I am an "AR lover" simply because I have made a contention for what in my experience and training are real world advantages is just silly. Its also the level of discussion I expect to have with children not adults.

Oh the holosights? Yes that's perfect to depend on! Battery operated electronics. Nothing like making sure "Ok I need to push this button, turn this knob"
And what happens if the batters craps out on her? Now what does she do? K.I.S.S.


I love when people argue from sheer ignorance. I'm not sure how you managed to get some much incorrect in such a short paragraph. Get an aimpoint. First it is not a holgraphic sight. Second it has nothing to have to turn on. It can be constantly on. They are so robust that you would have to try to brake one. With a batter life that exceeds 5 years I'm not real worried about it crapping out. Change it out once a year if you want to be abundantly cautious. The batteries are cheap. Oh and there are trijicon RDS options that don't use batteries at all. If somehow equipment that is durable enough for swat, military grunts, special forces, LEOs, competition shooters, etc is not robust enough for living a quite life in clean comfy confines of your home then you can A) use it like a big ghost ring and score hits at reasonable HD distance, B) use BUIS.

Basically none of your critiques hold much water when applied to the types of RDS I would suggest someone use for HD.

I've seen more pump shotguns fail more than I have aimpoints. That is speaking of mechanical issues with the guns. If you lump in shooter errors causing issues the gap widens much much more.
 
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