Shotgun or AR for Home Defense

[JShirley]

Mr. Dolall,


I was specifically addressing your "opinions may vary", with no slight expressed or implied. That you were insulted has nothing to do with me.

I remember being much younger, and beginning to learn to shoot. A semiautomatic with very little recoil was much easier than a heavily recoiling manually operated shotgun. I've seen fairly skilled shotgun shooters screw up during relatively mild stress.

We are expected to believe that the recessed magazine is easier to screw up than operating a pump and slide release? I have seen LOTS of people with no experience become proficient with the M16 in a matter of weeks (in terms of actual pure training and practice, probably about 25 hours). That's soup-to-nuts, starting with no experience and ending by qualifying on pop-up targets. There is no way they would have reached an equivalent skill level in that time with a pump shotgun.

John

 

[Girodin]

Take a new shooter out and hand them an AR and see how they react compared to a shotgun.

I've not only done this but I've also seen newer and experienced shooters in training classes for each. My experience has been shotguns are harder to get to a competent level with.

ith a mag release button that can cause problems for the novice, which apparently I AM, is easier than a side by side shotgun or even a pump shotgun much less a semi that requires you to take it off safety and then pull the trigger.

I wouldn't store lots of kinds of shotguns with a road chambered. Many, unlike an AR, are not drop safe. If you are storing a gun in a codition that simply requires the shooter to disengage the safety and then fire an AR really is not any harder than side by side or a pump. A side by side has a lever that can open it. That is the equivalent of a mag release button. Pumps have levers to open the action. With a SXS if you don't get the job done in two (and of course someone so inexperienced with firearms they cannot use an AR is never going to miss) you are dealing with a real load. With an AR you have 28 more rounds. With pump guns you have to manually cycle it each shot. Go to a three gun match and watch how many folks with screw that up under stress. A semi auto (like a Benelli M2 or something with proven reliability) is probably the easiest to learn to use. However, you still have to get that first shell in, disengage the safety and then you have 4-8 shots and then you have to know how to keep it fed.

If you are just counting on the user being able to pick it up, work the safety and then pull the trigger until empty then I'm not sure any of them are much harder or easier. An AR will let you go longer before you have to do something. My experience is an AR is much easier for novices to shoot because it has virtually non existent recoil. A light SxS coach gun firing slug and bucks on the other hand does not. A Benelli inertia gun also has stout recoil for a novice or smaller framed person. The stout recoil makes a follow up (and you only have one with that SxS) much more difficult.

Any kind of gun is prone to operator error if the person doesn't know how to use it. ARs are in my experience, and that of people that teach folks for a living, are much easier to get people competent with than lots of kinds of shotguns.

 

[Fiv3r]

I absolutely adore my Ithaca 37, and it's my general purpose home defense firearm because I am more familiar with the pump platform.
That said, short of the extremely concussive and sharp report of the .223, the AR just seems to do stuff better.
In my current house, OP isn't that big of an issue. The "shooting gallery" is opposite of the rooms my wife, daughter, and I sleep in. The new house I am moving to will have my daughter at the far end of the hall from me and my gun. I'm thinking my AR is going to become my go-to.

 

[Potatohead]

I was specifically addressing your "opinions may vary", with no slight expressed or implied. That you were insulted has nothing to do with me.

I thought the "uneducated" part was a little insulting...but who knows, I'm probably a little to "thin-skinned"..

I'm always pulling for the underdog, so I thought I'd stick my neck out out on this one.. Regrettably so probably

 

[jrdolall]

Guys I merely stated my OPINION in regard to the OP. I was asked by a moderator what my experience level was and I answered.
I was then basically attacked by an administrator for, once again, expressing an OPINION based on the original premise of the post. Now you may think that implying that someone is "uneducated" is not a slight but I would argue that most people will take umbrage with that implication. Add to that the FACT that you have absolutely no idea of my education level other than what I posted as my "training" with firearms in SD, HD and other situations and I would say that you certainly meant it as a slight or you completely worded your statement incorrectly.

I stand by my original opinion. An untrained person in a high stress situation will do better with a shotgun than with an AR. Discussing how well people will do after some moderate training is irrelevant because, as I stated, a person with training may be better off with an AR. I have training. I have more training than MOST. I have watched people screw up in mildly stressful training exercises using revolvers and just about everything imaginable including ARs and shotguns so the fact that people can drop the ball with a pump is not news to me. Heck I have done it while dove hunting on more than one occasion.
I keep a shotgun for HD as well as a revolver and both are ready to roll. I have an AR in the safe a few feet from my bed as well as a couple of other guns with loaded mags in case it gets real crazy and I need the extra firepower. Never having dealt with the stress I just hope I can remember the combination.
The OP asked for an opinion based on his circumstances and I gave my opinion based on those. There is no "correct" answer in this type of situation any more than there is one about the best caliber for SD. Attacking (yes I said attacking) my opinions is far from High Road and I would expect more from the people that run the forum. If you go back and read my post you will see that I was in no way argumentative but merely stated my feelings on the subject. The moderators then decided to turn the thread into a discussion of my training and education.
Your house your rules.

 

[nathan]

Either will do fine as long you practice which you prefer and can hit your targets 7 yds away . Most home encounters are closer than that . Remember shoot to kill but know what s behind the target. Thats the golden rule in gunfighting. If you can hit someone, then dont shoot.

 

[JShirley]

Mr. Dolall, you were not attacked. You said "opinions may vary". I said "opinions may vary vary, but an educated opinion is more valuable". You can make up stories about that statement being about you, but it's not: it's about the absolutely idiotic, commonly expressed idea that all opinions are equal.

John

 

[amd6547]

I am of two minds on the subject of the OP. I have, at different times relied on a carbine or a shotgun as my home defense long arm.
Currently, my long arm of choice is a Beretta 12ga semi auto shotgun, it is the weapon which is loaded and handy.
However, I have been shooting for a lot of years, and handling the recoil of a 12ga, and handling it's manual of arms is no problem.
A carbine is much easier to learn, in my opinion. It is also shorter and easier to handle indoors. I also appreciate the carbines ability to provide pinpoint accuracy.
While many tout the carbines large mag capacity, I am comfortable with eight rounds in the shotgun...and in the carbine, I generally use smaller cap mags...I have relied upon an M1 carbine with a 15rd mag, when reliable 30rd mags are handy...in my AR, I prefer the short 20rd mag. And, in my 5.45 Kalash, I use a short 10rd mag.
My daughters boyfriend/fiancé had never fired a firearm in his life. I took him to the range and had him shooting an AR with great proficiency and accuracy in no time at all.
In fact, the very first centerifre rifle I ever fired was an M16A1 at Camp Perry.

 

[jrdolall]

.in my AR, I prefer the short 20rd mag.

Same here. I rarely use the 30 rounders anymore. I started using the shorter mags because they fit in my shooting vice and started liking them better.

 

[jrdolall]

Mr. Dolall, opinions may vary, but an educated opinion is considerably more valuable than an uneducated one.

Sorry Jshirley but this is your actual quote. Now you can dodge all you want but that comment was directed at me, Mr. Dolall, and the inference I draw is that you consider my opinion to be "an uneducated one". If I somehow misread your statement then I apologize.
Once again, your house your rules.

 

[JShirley]

You made a statement. I addressed that statement. Dodge what? If I meant to say, "your opinion is uneducated", that's what I would have said.

 

[Girodin]

Guys I merely stated my OPINION in regard to the OP.

You are entitled to your opinion. That doesn't mean it is beyond reproach. Or that someone else is in the wrong for simply stating why they disagree with it. In fact, that is the basic paradigm of a discussion board like this one.

 

[PabloJ]

Came across this article on the shotgun vs ar - shotgun vs AR for home defense

I've carried both while in the military, but favored more of the SG in the urban setting.

Wanted to find out what you all think about this?

Now that I'm out and want to have my own shotgun. But gotta find something that my wife can handle as well.

Any suggestions?

Quite surprisingly 2&3/4" 20ga slugs and BK shot are still available. Grail gun would be old vintage 20ga Ithaca 37 'Deerslayer' with smoothbore barrel. Make mine 25" I'm very fond of small birdee hunting.

 

[tarosean]

Pump shotgun... cause you know that just the mere racking of one purportedly sends criminals running for the hills...

In all seriousness. Have your significant other try them both in all sizes and flavors and get her input. If she is scared of it she wont use it....

 

[Fiv3r]

I can't speak for any one else here in regards to their training and intended demeanor, but having known John Shirley through various forums over the last decade+, I can promise you that he does not mince words nor have I ever witnessed anything close to a personal attack online. When I think of a way to describe John, "even keeled" and "patient to a fault" are some terms that spring to mind. Also, "wise beyond his years".
I don't mean to stir up any trouble, nor does Mr. Shirley need MY paltry endorsement. I just think that it well worth pointing out that his opinion on the matter of firearms use and tactics is indeed a very educated one. With me, and that's obviously just a very personal opinion, John's insight on such things will always care a lot of weight.

Regarding the topic at hand, I am still very much in the "run what ya brung" camp. I think having a a firearm that you are very very familiar with trumps using the "best" tool for the job. As I have said earlier, I'm a pump gun guy. That is based on my use history and the layout of my house.

My new residence is making rethink my tactical plans. Where at the current home access to my family by an intruder is funnelled so that would have to go through me, my new home is going to have them going past my daughter's room first. Based on the layout, I think an AR will be more fitting to my needs regarding speed, mobility, and OP issues.

 

[rbernie]

I have hunted game on foot in the great outdoors with the AR platform for more than a decade. It's great for relatively static shots at targets of varying distances. I've also hunted on foot with a shotgun for a considerable period of time. It's great for fast snap shots at close in and quick moving targets.

The differences in ergonomics for each platform help define what they're best at and what they're not optimized for.

For HD, I'll take the shotgun. For a less physically constrained environment, I'll take the AR.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I keep a short barrel Mossberg 500 next to my bed loaded with #4 Buckshot. That works for me.

 

[Kuyong_Chuin]

Came across this article on the shotgun vs ar - shotgun vs AR for home defense

I've carried both while in the military, but favored more of the SG in the urban setting.

Wanted to find out what you all think about this?

Now that I'm out and want to have my own shotgun. But gotta find something that my wife can handle as well.

Any suggestions?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/GUN-981 Remington 870 clone $189.00

Or if you want to kind of combined the two you can try a RAAC MKA-1919-xn Semi Auto Shotgun 12 Gauge 19.7" Barrel Two 5 Round Magazines, Polymer AR-15 Style Stock $619.00
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/GUN-1919

 

[Sheepdog1968]

To Fred Fuller's point. Loui Awerbuck classes do add some stress into what you are doing. He's even said at the beginning of one class he will mess with your mind. I like his classes a lot. Other classes I've taken have from other instructors do other things to add stress such as a timed exam. I know one instructor who on an indoor range does a simple advancing of targets with the lights out and you behind barricades paired up with a partner that is fun but stressful. In fact, in one of these classes I couldn't figure out why my shotgun stopped working. I transitioned to a pistol to finish the drill. Turned out I short stoked my pump. I really can't recall short stroking my pump in a decade or more prior to,that. It was obvious after the drill was over but not during. The simulated stress worked.

 

[jrdolall]

Stress is a great equalizer in a lot of situations. Who hasn't forgotten to work the bolt of their gun after shooting an animal? I know I have.
To my initial point I just don't think you can simulate the stress level of an actual home invasion. You can't simulate hitting a live pitcher with a batting machine. You can't simulate an actual football game during scrimmage. Having never been in the military I don't think you can prepare a soldier for actual combat until he sees that the people on the other end are trying to kill him. I know they go through a lot of training in order to prepare them in the best way possible for what they may experience.
Practice makes perfect is an old saying that few adhere to any more. I have spent months on a football field and baseball field as a player and coach trying to prepare for game day. There is no substitute for practice but, until you stand in the box with a guy 60 feet away throwing BBs at you, you ain't ready.

 

[javjacob]

For home defense I have a Mossberg 500 12 ga sitting under the bed loaded with 00 buck. Its what I have and I feel safe with it. I highly doubt anyone is going to have any fight left in them after eating 00buck at close range. 00buck is no slouch.
I also have a ruger single six revolver, it has 2 cylinders one for 22LR and one for 22mag. I keep in by my nightstand under the bed also for a back up. sure its just a 22 but its the only hand gun I have. though I shouldn't ever have to use it for HD because the 12 ga is getting grabbed first.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Prefer my AR while up north, but have both.

 

[mac66]

I have ARs and like them a lot. However a shotgun always has been and always will be a good choice for home defense. The mere presence of a gun ends most problems and the chance of getting into any type of extended gun battle inside your house (unless you are running a drug house) is slim and none.

So yeah, a shotgun is good to go IMO. If need be you use your shotgun to get to your AR when the zombie, mutant, commie, biker hoards invade from outer space.

 

[200Apples]

.
I have for years resisted the AR. Up to this very point in time, I have no "black" guns save for my Springfield 1911 Loaded parkerized; all my stuff's blue steel and walnut.

I'm reading "The Farnam Method of Defensive Shotgun and Rifle Shooting"... and he thinks we should ALL have AR's, too.



I'm looking at a LMT. It's a hefty chunk-O-change. Kinda wondering how I'm going to afford 5.56 ammo afterward. lol. (meanwhile, I'm well-stocked in .45ACP, 7.62 for my bolt-action carbine and in variety of 12 ga shotshells for my four shotguns... hee!)

 

[JSH1]

If I was going to buy a gun specifically for home defense it would be a 20 ga side x side coach gun. We currently use a .410 single shot though I have a 12 ga Mossberg 500 available as well. The .410 is the only gun in the house that is loaded.