Shotgun vs. Carbine for home defense - I get it now!

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I go back and forth on this topic myself. I have dogs, and door locks so I don't plan on having zero time to react. I usually grab a 22LR carbine why? bc usually the dogs are alerting to a varmit messing with the stock. If I hear someone breaking in after the dogs alert I'd grab my 1911.

Currently I'm in the shotgun camp, since it will be at close range and more holes equals more blood loss. However, most likely I'll use my .45 or the 22 rifle(which IMO is nothing to sneeze at) Your avg home invader will disengage when under fire.

Now if I'm attacked by a heavily armed gang....I guess its not my day, hopefully I can take a couple with me.
 
Since my carbine has a lever on the bottom it's not my first choice. The .45 is closest then the 870 and carbine are side by side a couple steps away.

Two large loud dogs are the alarm system,
 
while making your "serious home defence plan"...don't forget to include the fact that most of the things that go bump in the night are:
your son's girlfriend that forgot her purse in your diningroom,;
or your birddog that crept in your back door,;
or your best friends' daughter who is drunk and standing at your kitchen sink at 2 a.m.
or....etc

The distinctive sound of an 870 being stroked is the most recognizeable, and respected sound on earth, any idiot with half a brain left doesnt want to look down the barrel of one, and will be out the door before you get down the hallway and ultimately...you really don't want to shoot someone anyway do you??

after reading some of these posts...I wonder
by the way 158 gr @ 1500 fps does not equal 1 1/8 oz @ 1350 fps
 
Do those of you using either the shotgun or the carbine view a sling as a help or hindrance?
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Neutral to slight hindrance in a realistic HD scenario. In some sort of post-Katrina situation (or even hunting or camping, I guess), the ability to do other stuff with your hands without setting the rifle down in the mud, or the ability to rest your arms, might be helpful. For holing up in your bedroom with your family while waiting for 911, though, or even moving through your house to make sure everything's OK if you don't actually think someone's in there, it's not really necessary.

Having said that, I do have a sling on my HD carbine, because HD is not the only purpose for that rifle.

while making your "serious home defence plan"...don't forget to include the fact that most of the things that go bump in the night are:
your son's girlfriend that forgot her purse in your diningroom,;
or your birddog that crept in your back door,;
or your best friends' daughter who is drunk and standing at your kitchen sink at 2 a.m.
or....etc

The distinctive sound of an 870 being stroked is the most recognizeable, and respected sound on earth, any idiot with half a brain left doesnt want to look down the barrel of one, and will be out the door before you get down the hallway and ultimately...you really don't want to shoot someone anyway do you??
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That's why my carbine has a light. IMO, a light is an essential feature whatever you choose, whether it be a shotgun, carbine, or handgun (though with a handgun the light doesn't have to be mounted).

Don't count on racking a shotgun, or a verbal warning, to automatically determine whether the shape in the kitchen at 2am is a friendly or not. If it were a family member with ear buds in listening to an iPod, or someone who was very drunk/drugged, they probably wouldn't hear the shotgun or realize what it was. Not to mention the potential pitfalls of sneaking up on potential intruder(s) with an unloaded gun in your hands.

But again, it boils down to using what you're most competent with. If for you that's an 870, then by all means use it.
 
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One more thing. They will expect to be attacking you. You will not know that they are there, until the attack has commenced. The element of surprise is entirely in the attackers' favor -- the watchmaker found a way to take back that advantage. Lugging around a shotgun or carbine would have made that impossible.
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Well, if they bust in the house, then break in the door to the bedroom, I'm kinda hoping the noise wakes me up. Might not. I sometimes sleep pretty hard. I have the shotgun for safe room defense, a revolver in my nightstand, and my daily carry, which ever I'm carrying the day before, is usually still in my pants pocket if I have to get up and check a bump in the night or something. If I leave the safe room, it's with a handgun for all the reasons you posted. I have a small home, not a lot of maneuverability in here, ranges are very short.
 
Do those of you using either the shotgun or the carbine view a sling as a help or hindrance?
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Helps the BG if you're grappling for the gun. :rolleyes: Why would I need to sling up for a 10 foot shot? It would impair my movement. I have slings for duck hunting. Frees my hands up for other chores. I am usually toting a seat, a gun, a bag of decoys, all on my back. But, that's the only reason to have a sling on the gun. I take it off when I'm set up hunting, QD swivels. The sling will tangle up in tall grass and has cost me shots. Slings are not desirable on shotguns when shooting. They only make carry easy. Slings on a rifle can help steady the gun for a long shot off hand, but we're talking home defense here, where's the 100 yard shot?
 
It's a shotgun for me due to the fact that I'm a lousy handgun shot and I've spent more time carrying a pumpgun than any other kind.

I just hope the doors on the house we rent don't fly open after only one kick so I have time to wake up and grab a weapon. If I have a few seconds (and in real life, that's a pretty big if) I can get ready and cover the staircase to the second floor (where we sleep)from an angle that will give me a shot at the intruder's back. Choke points are great for a defender.

I know that juries don't look favorably at bullet holes in the back, but I'd rather take my chances in court than watch my wife and I end up the victim of a torture /murder.
 
I think it depends on how your house is setup for storage too.

And of course the configuration of your guns.

In my case my 10 shot shotgun is FAR huger than my carbine, almost impossible for my 93 lb wife to handle, and not even close to the handiness of my carbine.

Even in its 16 inch configuration.

Pardon my wife playing music in the backround, the goofy camera work, but I just hauled my stuff out for this thread and I wasnt going to spend more than 2 minutes on uploading a vid :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhNy3r4pSgs


Now if that shotgun was 18 inches, and I have a 30 inch trap barrel I am considering cutting down, it would be almost identical in length to the carbine.

Dunno.

Its a toughie. In my personal situation, I would need to cut down a barrel, get a light, and make sure that barrel was ON the gun when I needed it.

Or just use the carbine.

Now if something happened, would I rather they take my $800 AR or my $300 Remington?

Bonus to the shotgun.

But for now, its handguns in the top drawer, carbine in the closet on bike hooks.

The shotgun is a "Maybe Someday" situation.
 
It's a shotgun for me due to the fact that I'm a lousy handgun shot and I've spent more time carrying a pumpgun than any other kind.
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Practice. It worked for me. :D Join a gun club and shoot a lot.

I know that juries don't look favorably at bullet holes in the back, but I'd rather take my chances in court than watch my wife and I end up the victim of a torture /murder.
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In Texas, castle doctrine, the bullet angle, the gauge, reloads or no, the fact that the perp had a troubled childhood, no matter. If he's in your home, you can shoot his feet off and torture him first, castle doctrine. Well, that's a little bit of an exaggeration, but you get the point. He can be running for the door. You can shoot him dead in the back, he can drag himself out into the street before he expires. No matter, justified, and the perp's family can't sue you, either. You have no duty to retreat. If he's in your home and you don't want him there, lethal force is justified, period, case closed.

Your state might vary.
 
In Texas, castle doctrine, the bullet angle, the gauge, reloads or no, the fact that the perp had a troubled childhood, no matter. If he's in your home, you can shoot his feet off and torture him first, castle doctrine. Well, that's a little bit of an exaggeration, but you get the point. He can be running for the door. You can shoot him dead in the back, he can drag himself out into the street before he expires. No matter, justified, and the perp's family can't sue you, either. You have no duty to retreat. If he's in your home and you don't want him there, lethal force is justified, period, case closed.

Your state might vary.
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I'm pretty sure no New England states have a castle doctrine, unfortunately. Technically, If someone is breaking down my front door and I don't run away out the back door, and I shoot the intruder, I'm in trouble.
 
There are attributes and limitations to each weapon type. Everyone has their envisioned scenario. It’s usually the unforeseen which is the most nettlesome and has the potential to be your undoing.
 
I'm pretty sure no New England states have a castle doctrine, unfortunately. Technically, If someone is breaking down my front door and I don't run away out the back door, and I shoot the intruder, I'm in trouble.
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Actually, I don't know of any New England states that *don't* have some sort of Castle Doctrine law, including Massachusetts (which IIRC eliminated its duty-to-retreat-from-your-home statute years ago).

Also, don't forget that New Hampshire, Maine, and Vermont are part of New England...all three of those states are more pro-gun than half the South (including, alas, my own state of NC).
 
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Vermont courts do appear to have upheld the traditional Castle Doctrine (no duty to retreat from your own home), with the precedent being State v. Patterson:

http://www.jstor.org/pss/3303232

Specifically paragraph 5. Unless that has been overturned by more recent legislation or case law, you don't have to flee out the back door if somebody is kicking in your front door, but check with somebody who actually knows your state laws (I'm neither a lawyer nor a Vermont resident). I do believe that all the states around you similarly respect the right to defend one's home. I can tell you with certainty that ME, NH, and VT are more pro-gun than North Carolina is.

It does appear that you do not have a "stand your ground" law regarding self-defense in public places, but that is a completely separate issue from Castle Doctrine.
 
Why would I need to sling up for a 10 foot shot? It would impair my movement. I have slings for duck hunting. Frees my hands up for other chores.
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The rationale for putting a sling on your HD shotgun is that you don't have to put the gun down to grab something else. Like you said, "frees your hands up." Here's an example. This is probably more a matter of personal preference, but as Old Painless at the box o' truth puts it: "A sling is to a shotgun what a holster is to a handgun."
 
Seems to me there'd be far more detriment to a sling than benefit in a home. As I don't go out of the safe room with a long gun, it's moot for me, anyway. But, if I did, if I put the gun down, it'd be after shooting and killing the intruder. At 58, I ain't interested in a fair fight.
 
dom 1104

why not take that 30" trap barrel to the nearest trap range and shoot 1000 targets with it over the next 6 wks. getting familiar with that gun will do more good than whacking a barrel off...besides, it's a great sport with lots of good people participating.
 
don't forget to include the fact that most of the things that go bump in the night are:your son's girlfriend that forgot her purse in your diningroom,;
or your birddog that crept in your back door,;
or your best friends' daughter who is drunk and standing at your kitchen sink at 2 a.m.
or....etc

The distinctive sound of an 870 being stroked is the most recognizeable, and respected sound on earth, any idiot with half a brain left doesnt want to look down the barrel of one, and will be out the door before you get down the hallway and ultimately...you really don't want to shoot someone anyway do you??
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Except I don't have a son, daughter, or a bird dog, and my best friend has no children. In other words, you're making up nonsense scenarios to justify your own choices. I'm not really too wary of the "idiot with half a brain". I want every advantage I can have, and advertising I'm there and armed takes away an advantage.

John
 
JShirley said:
Except I don't have a son, daughter, or a bird dog, and my best friend has no children. In other words, you're making up nonsense scenarios to justify your own choices. I'm not really too wary of the "idiot with half a brain". I want every advantage I can have, and advertising I'm there and armed takes away an advantage.

John
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you may indeed be right about needing every advantage, but you are certainly wrong about "making up nonsense scenarios" because two of them happened to me, and one happened to my father...none were made up.

Similar scenarios could happen to you or anyone else who reads this forum.


I'm a newbie here but I thought sharing ideas and experiences were what this forum was about
 
why not take that 30" trap barrel to the nearest trap range and shoot 1000 targets with it over the next 6 wks. getting familiar with that gun will do more good than whacking a barrel off...besides, it's a great sport with lots of good people participating.
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well I thought about that, but there are a few things preventing me.

1. I can just use the 26 inch for that.

2. I am not sure I can afford it. 1000 shotgun shells = quite a bit of cash.
 
My home defense plan starts with three 100+ pound dogs at the foot of my bed. I hope to have at least enough time to arm myself if need be. What ever gun I grab will the the correct one for the emergency 99% of the time.
 
IIRC Vermont law allows use of deadly force for home invasion etc:

(I don't see a duty to retreat mentioned anywhere)

§ 2305. Justifiable homicide

If a person kills or wounds another under any of the circumstances enumerated below, he or she shall be guiltless:

(1) In the just and necessary defense of his or her own life or the life of his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, sister, master, mistress, servant, guardian or ward; or

(2) In the suppression of a person attempting to commit murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, burglary or robbery, with force or violence; or

(3) In the case of a civil officer; or a military officer or private soldier when lawfully called out to suppress riot or rebellion, or to prevent or suppress invasion, or to assist in serving legal process, in suppressing opposition against him or her in the just and necessary discharge of his or her duty. (Amended 1983, No. 23, § 2.)

I'm not sure what a "castle doctrine" would add. I would like to see something re immunity from civil suit.
 
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