Shotguns for Home Defense

[Marty183]

I am a Southpaw...I like Mossbergs for the location of their safety.

 

[RandKL]

The light does not remain on more than a fraction of a second...Light on, identify person/bad guy, light off and move and either engage or retreat.

So you're in a pitch black room and you turn on a super bright "tactical light" for a second and then turn it off? What do you suppose happens to your own night vision when you do that?

r

 

[psi2941]

Saiga 12 !!!!

This is going to be my first shotgun. "Semi-auto" shotgun for like 500-600
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLny6R4Gzl0

u need to convert it if you want the pistol grip

i converted the saiga 7.62 and plan to convert the saiga 12

 

[Guns and more]

If it's for a man I'd say a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870.
18 1/2" barrel, pump. 12 ga. loaded with #4 buck, reduced recoil.

If a woman might find herself defending the home, then I'd say a Mossberg or Remington pump, 18 1/2" barrel, in .410 with #3 buck

Because all men can handle a 12 gauge and no women can handle one, right?

Don't worry Marty I think he is done sharing his wisdom on this topic with us.

What's that supposed to mean? You know everything and no one else is entitled to an opinion? Then you should have your own forum of one! (It's called a blog)
I recommend a .410 for women because I once recommended a 20 ga. for a woman and she bought it. The recoil was so severe she won't shoot anything but birdshot.
I'd recommend a .410 for men too. It might be the perfect home defense shotgun.
So take your whiny attitude and stuff it!

 

[Girodin]

It means that there are many women who can handle a 12 gauge just fine and there are men who cannot. Suggesting that someone select the gauge of their shotgun solely based on their sex is stupid (it is probably sexist and some other things too, but at a minimum it is stupid). Sex, in and of its self has no correlation to what the best gun would be for someone. Further your suggestion ignores comepletely the fact that not all 12 gauges will have the same felt recoil nor will all 20's not all .410s. There are many factors other than simply the gauge that affect felt recoil. Design of the gun, weight, fit, etc. For example I have a little 20 that has more felt recoil with bird shot than my HD 12 gauge has with slugs or 00 Buckshot.

A more reasonable suggestion would be to have people (men or women) find a weapon that fits them and that they can easily manipulate and fire. They should then obtain training and practice with it a lot.

You know everything and no one else is entitled to an opinion?

No and if that is what you get out of someone asking you to further explain why you hold your opinion then you might be a little over sensitive. More to the point however, opinions are good and well but if one has an "opinion" that contradicts fact and logic then they ought to expect they might be called on it. I expressed an incredulous response to yours because yours because its basic assumptions contradict fact not my opinion. It is not my opinion that some women can handle a 12 gauge, it is a fact. I have seen it and if spent much time shooting around other people you likely would have too.

I recommend a .410 for women because I once recommended a 20 ga. for a woman and she bought it. The recoil was so severe she won't shoot anything but birdshot.

This is called an anecdote, it is not determinative of whether other women will find the recoil to sever. Women are about half the population, I know just enough about statistics to be fairly certain that drawing a conclusion about a set of roughly 3.3 Billion people based on a sample size of one means you will have a margin of error far to large to be very useful.

So take your whiny attitude and stuff it!

You have convinced me of you point with such a well thought out contention. It was very high road to boot.

If you have real reason why it is a valid a priori stance that women should have a 410 and men a 12 I'd be very interested to hear it. If on the other hand, your contentions are so hollow you have nothing more add than ad hominem attacks I think we could all do with out them.

 

[Texas Gun Person]

Mossberg 500 w/ pistol grip

 

[gatorjames85]

If a woman might find herself defending the home, then I'd say a Mossberg or Remington pump, 18 1/2" barrel, in .410 with #3 buck

My wife has no problem shooting a 12 gauge (or anything else I have handed her to shoot).

 

[Marty183]

So you're in a pitch black room and you turn on a super bright "tactical light" for a second and then turn it off? What do you suppose happens to your own night vision when you do that?

r

You ever try it? I have...So, unless you have experience with it, then don't knock it. Your first objective is to identify your target...If it is a bad guy, you have just pointed your light right in his eyes...Whose eye sight do you think will be effected more? Yours or the other guy? I know the answer...No need to reply.

 

[Extremely Pro Gun]

Benelli Nova or Supernova
Browning BPS High Capacity
Winchester SXP Defender
Mossberg 500
Older model Remington 870.

 

[Guns and more]

Girodin: No and if that is what you get out of someone asking you to further explain

You did not ask anything of the sort. Anyone can see what I posted and your sarcastic response.
So tell me this: How can you recommend anything? There will always be someone who it doesn't fit. Yes, there are 300# women weightlifters who can handle a 12 ga. with one hand. Yes, there are 100# men who can't. So What.

I gave my opinion based of fact and if no one wants to take it, it's a free country.

 

[Girodin]

You did not ask anything of the sort

Oh, I was confused by the question mark. I may have already had some assumptions about your reasoning but the question was in fact asking why you thought that.

So tell me this: How can you recommend anything?

That is a fair enough question. There are probably several ways. Some are probably better than others. If it is for someone you do not know and have no clue about their size, strength, experience with firarms, etc the best one can do is to recommend they try to handle different guns and see what feels comforatable in terms of handling and fit. Fit goes along way when it comes to felt recoil as well. An ill fitting gun can make recoil seem much worse. The other recommendation that is sound is that they try if possible to shoot various models. Beyond that one might offer opinions on guns that are widely viewed as reliable. If one thinks they can do more than guess at what model might be "best" in such a situation they are kidding themselves. That is why you so often see on this board the sound advise of go try them out, when people ask which gun.

If it is someone I know, I get out my guns (and often invite some people I know who have a bunch of guns) and go to the range and let them shoot them. This is much more useful than telling them what I like. I have at times been rather surprised by what someones preferred gun was at the end of the day.

Yes, there are 300# women weightlifters who can handle a 12 ga. with one hand. Yes, there are 100# men who can't. So What.

I would contend that the extremes are not forcedly where one finds women who are proficient with a 12 gauge or men who might benefit from a smaller bore. Do you honestly believe that it is?

I gave my opinion based of fact

You gave your opinion, and it might well have been based on a fact. The problem was that fact has little bearing outside of its specific context. Re-read my above post about the worth of an opinion based on one female shooter's experience with one particular shotgun.

Some facts are not a good basis for offering advice. It is a fact I fired a scandium framed .357 and didn't find it objectionable. It would not be good advice percipitating from that fact to say that recoil is never an issue with scandium frame .357s. It is a fact that I like my semi for home defense more than my pump guns. That in and of its self is not a good basis for me to say Semis are the way to go for anyone who wants a HD shotgun.

Further your fact (one woman found the recoil of a 20 to be too severe) is a horrible basis for your opinion (women should have 410s) not only for the sample size problems already mentioned but because you offered no support for the idea the the gun being a 20 gauge was really the problem. There are issues of fit, the weight of the gun, etc that could be the more proximate issue.

Just as you can posit your opinions, I can explain why I think they are invalid and ought to be ignored by those looking to glean info from this thread. You can also explain why I am wrong. I have a feeling, based on the parts of my post that you decided to respond to that you will not attempt to do so.

 

[ishida]

I stand firmly behind Girodin. I've seen both halves of the coin. I know plenty of women who PREFER a twelve-gauge. I know plenty of men (myself included) who prefer a twenty-gauge or .410. It's all about fit and weight.

 

[mljdeckard]

I also agree with Girodin. The difference between an adult of any size who can properly use a 12 ga and one who can't is a matter of training. There are many options to help adjust for size in the case of a truly petite person.

A person who 'can't handle a 12 ga' is probably someone who has been told by a chauvinist that they can't handle it. If the have never fired a gun before, they have no way of knowing if it's severe or mild. If they are told to handle it CORRECTLY, with proper body position and keeping it snug into their shoulder, they can handle it just fine.

 

[Girodin]

I think mljdeckard has touched on a big part of the issue. My significant other weighs all of 104 lbs and she, after being shown how, has somehow been able to do all kinds of things I have read on here are just too difficult for women to do, rack the slide of duty size pistol, heft a 12 gauge, etc.

I think I weighed about 90 lbs when I was old enough to start hunting with a shotgun, some how I managed to shoot a 12 gauge. In fact I remember being quit surprised when I fired some of the grown ups guns and their 12s had less recoil than my smaller gauge break action single shot.

 

[sheepdog]

The OP...

...wanted some input to make informed decisions with...what a lot of personal bickering has trashed up the thread...one person was taught one way...one another...one just has an opinion...how 'bout we just say our say and let the OP decide...instead of tearing each others' posts apart like a bunch of old wimmen???

...40 years ago...I was taught to hold my light out at arms' length away from my body...so that if the perp instinctively shot at the light...he'd not hit my center mass...and I bought a Streamlight SL20---20,000 CP which turned the night to day, and blinded HIM, while letting me be sure of my target...most of the guys I hit with that light...hands went up to their face...really intimidating, and, in 8 years of graveyards...never hurt MY night vision at all...unless I looked into it...lights today are much smaller and easier to use...you must see your target and be sure of what you're seeing...or you're likely to make a bad shoot...
...Started out then with a Winchester 1200 pump...been through Ithica and Rem and Mossberg...and the newer 1300...guess what I went back to? a slicker-n-snot Winchester 1200 that it took me two years to find...I'm looking for another one...different strokes for ...

 

[RandKL]

You ever try it? I have

Oh my God! You've turned on a flashlight in a dark room??? What sort of safety precautions did you take before you tried such a dangerous task???

Sorry. Your sentence was funny.

Yes, I have, in fact, turned on a flashlight in the dark. I'd wager that pretty much all of us here on this forum have turned on a flashlight in the dark before. You lose your night vision pretty effectively. That's why we were always told to use our red filters in the dark. You didn't think those were just for the coolness factor, did you? Though, you *can* tape the red one to your right eye and the blue one to your left and get a really funky 3d effect going with colored markers. Hell, even the flash from your own muzzle can blind you in the dark. That's why the flash hider was invented.

it is a bad guy, you have just pointed your light right in his eyes

And if it wasn't a "bad guy", you just lost your night vision just before he came around the corner.

In your ill-thought-out scenario you have exactly one shot with the light. Hope you're looking at him and not something or someone else, hope he's looking right at you and not facing away, hope he has no partner, hope he doesn't just start popping off rounds at your light etc etc etc.

Want to think that one through again?

rich

 

[sheepdog]

...the point that Marty183 was trying to make...and I'll make, too, is that he and I and thousands of others have policed in pitch dark for years and years...in builidings and outside...and used bright lights...and identified targets and made arrests...and other things...and we weren't blinded by our own lights...and we did what needed done...and, speaking for my age group...we didn't even HAVE any colored filters...but it still worked fine....it didn't happen to us in real life like it "happens" here on the forum...most folks who grab a light in the night just use white lights...and do fine...the sarcasm and rudeness don't help make your point....

 

[Balog]

Tactical lights are great when used properly. If you like shooting at people you haven't properly identified, I can see why you'd hate them so much.

I like the Mossberg pumps myself, mainly because of the center safety; and I'm right handed! Pretty much any decent pump will work about as well as any of the others. Semi's may not be a bad choice either. A lot depends on your total budget; I'd plan on spending x2-3 the guns price for ammo and training.

 

[Art Eatman]

Darned few of these sorts of threads are really worth a hoot after the second page. Many, not even after the first page.

And so, good night, sweet prince. Parting is not sweet sorrow...