Shotguns for Home Defense

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DO NOT RELY ON THE RACKING NOISE!

You must chamber a round before actually engaging the intruder. Standing on the other side of the room and racking in full sight of him won't do, he can cross that distance and attack with a knife or the like before you can react. Racking--loudly--as you pick up the weapon would be best. I only suggest not keeping one in the chamber to help prevent a negligent discharge or a loved one (or the BG) picking it up ready to go.
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Agreed, why give your position away and be at a tactical disadvantage.

I would chamber a round well before engaging.

In terms of this thread, I like the Remington pump shotguns. IMO, they have the smoothest actions and pumps in their price range. I also own a Mossberg, and while it works the action, pump, and trigger are very rough.
 
I also own a Mossberg, and while it works the action, pump, and trigger are very rough.
Shoot it. A lot. It'll smooth out, and you'll never notice until you pick up a new Mossberg.

I prefer mossbergs due to the safey location and me being wrong handed.
 
ive been happy with my Mossberg 500

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Agreed, why give your position away and be at a tactical disadvantage.

Because warnings, of all kinds, save lives. Yours as well as the other guy.

Does anyone need that explained?

r
 
Lights are the worst thing you can use if you are the lone defender. As soon as you turn on the light the bad guys know exactly where you are. They are great for a swat team with a dozen guys.

This comment is much more effective in showing your lack of knowledge concerning how to properly use a light and other HD tactics than it is in showing that lights are a bad idea.

You should open a training center since guys like Clint Smith and Pat Rogers are giving out such bad advice and training.

Because warnings, of all kinds, save lives. Yours as well as the other guy.

The type of threats that require responding with a firearm are not monolithic. While it is true in certain instances a challenge (aka warning) be it verbal (e.g. stop, stop or I'll shoot, get out of my house, I have a gun, Do not come any closer, etc, etc) or the racking of slide, may dissuade someone and be enough to end the threat it certainly is not in all cases. In many jurisdictions one is under no legal duty to issue a challenge prior to using deadly force. Where I live doing so does not play anything approaching a dispositive role in the permisability of using deadly force. Nor would it be in a civil case.

Use of deadly force can be seen as a triangle with three important points. The above mentioned legal factors. Second is tactical considerations. In some circumstances issuing challenges may make sense. In other situations doing so might be a horrible idea. what is a tactically sound or even reasonable action is highly fact specific and blanket statements often fail on account of that. Being silent or acting immediadetly might save lives in a circumstance where a warning gets you hurt or killed. Take the example of the CCW holder who left a shop in the mall and encountered an active shooter on a rampage. He sees the kid shoot someone and draws his weapon but instead of firing yells to the kid to put his gun down. The kid whipped around and shot him. A warning was not tactically sound or appropriate in that case. It takes little imagination to come up with a HD scenario where immediate action would be better than any form of challenge or warning.

The last point on our triangle is the morality. Much of this is so subjective I will not bother to address it at length. I will simply say I can imagine scenarios in which morally I would view a challenge as appropriate and others where I would not.

In sum, a warning/challenge could theoretically save lives, it could also get you killed. Its appropriateness might have to balance legal, tactical, and moral concerns. Depending on the exact situation that calculation might come out differently.
 
I agree with those saying that there are many good/adequate choices. That quintessential HD gun is a pump shotgun. I used to lean much more heavily into the camp that thought a semi auto was not a good choice for HD because of reliability concerns. I now believe that being semi automatic is not a disqualifying feature per se. I believe there are semi autos that are up to the task in terms of reliability. Semis also have their advantages. I would for example consider a Benelli M4 for HD and of course test it for relaibility with the loads I want to use. A pump is a very good choice though and has the advantage of being less expensive.

Everything mentioned already as well as various other models are up to the task. More important than the exact make or model is the users skill sets. I would rather have a Hawk 982 and spend $800 on training and practice than have a $1k+ Benelli.

The various pump guns while all being up to the task of HD do have difference and thus I would suggest simply going to some shops and handling them. If you can find a way to shoot some of the various models that is even better. Subjective likes and dislikes might well tilt the scales in favor of one model or another.

Then get training. You will not only become a better shotgunner, but hard use goes a long ways in helping one know what add ons are valuable, which are dead weight, and which are a hindrance.

All that said I personally lean towards used wingmasters which I believe are higher quality guns than the newer express models and used WM can often be found for less money as well, although they will likely need a barrel swap. I look for bargains on a good condition used WM. The gun and a 18" barrel can often be had for very near the same price as an express or a Mossberg. I believe they can benefit from a good recoil pad, a light, an over sized safety, an extended magazine tube, a side saddle, and perhaps a high viability bead.
 
Girodin, you comment proves my point. You don't know squat. When you turn on the light you are a target. Suppose the bad guy throws an object to the other side of the room. On goes the light and you are toast.
 
Your retort further proves my point actually. I'll repeat it, you clearly don't understand the how when and where's of using a light in HD situations.

Who said anyone was going to illuminate an area where they simply heard a sound (even more so when it is the sound of an object being thrown. Say you encounter a silohuetted figure, clearly a person but you can not identify who? Shooting it is a recipe for disaster, in many situations one cannot be 100% positive it is a BG that needs shooting. I think of two incidents that happened locally. One was an old man who had dementia and entered a home of someone he knew thinking it was his own. Engaging that figure in the dark might have given the home owner many sleepless nights thinking about how things might have turned out better. The other was a mentally handicapped boy who was going into his neighbors houses at night and eating food out of their fridge. Shooting him without identifying would have been tragic. Then there was the teenage boy who was killed. He left his girlfriends home and part way home realized he had left something. He returned and not wanting to disturb anyone let himself in. The homeowner heard the noise, investigated, say a figure int he dark and shot it. I imagine he really wishes he would have been better able to identify that target before he shot.

Further, your posts seem to indicate that your HD plan is solo room clearing, a very very unsound tactic, particularly for someone such as your self that has no training in how to do it. Light or not if the person(s) in your home have.

Do a little experiment. Have your kids, or a friend, hide in your house in the dark. Then you go look for them. See who sees who first. You may be surprised to find out just how easy it is to wind up dead, and even if they don't have a gun. A cop I knew took a pipe to the head solo searching a structure from a figure in the dark he did not see.

There are of course times where going room to room might be what the situation calls for. While it can be dangerous it is much much more dangerous if one has no clue what they are doing.

The point that the anit-light crowd always ignores is that lights (at least all the ones I own) have switches on it. I can turn it on when I need it. It is impossible however to turn on the light you don't have and might very well need.

Again maybe you know something Pat Rogers and Clint Smith don't. Maybe they are idiots. You should be making a good living dispensing your knowledge if that is the case.
 
agvreed with Girodin. That guy has been squawking nonsense on here as long as I can remember, spouting opinions as fact. "DONT DO THAT! DO THIS! YOURE GONNA GIT KILT THAT WAY!"
 
The point I am trying to make is most people are not trained and that is the problem. To assume that I don't know what to do is your opinion without facts. AccepableUserName I have few I associate with you.
 
A few you associate with me? Associate all you want. I don't care what some computer guy thinks. LOL



It's clear you come and hijack threads with no tact and put your opinions down as fact. Learn some manners.
 
To assume that I don't know what to do is your opinion without facts.

Its an assumption based on what you have written. It may well be wrong. However, there is not much you have posited in terms of what is sound for HD that would indicate that.

If I read your last post correctly, you are actually taking a dramatic shift in positions. Your previous position was lights are bad and using them is dangerous. That is a pretty far cry from the position you are now taking, which is, lights are dangerous if used improperly. The difference between those two arguments is the same as the difference between an anti's argument that guns are dangerous and kill people and the more sound argument that guns are dangerous and kill people if used improperly.

I freely admit I made an assumption about your knowledge. I would challenge the assertion that it was not made on any facts. It was made on the fact you were spouting disinformation (even if it was only by a lack of attentiveness in fully and accurately articulating your point) and you did not coherently offer any sound points about the proper use of a light or strategies and tactics for HD. People are bound to make assumptions about your knowledge based on what you opine. Is that really surprising news to anyone?

Lastly, I would note the importance of being clear about things. If what you meant was lights are dangerous if used improperly then say that. Saying that lights are inherently dangerous and that their use is good for a group of Swat guys but bad for a homeowner is not the same thing, and it will convey a very different idea. To the uninformed it conveys the very idea stated, lights are bad and have no good use. To the more informed it conveys the idea that you are sorely mistaken and have no clue what you are talking about and should have your opinions and comments summarily discounted. Additionally, one's post hoc "clarifications" tend to look like simple back pedaling when the new clarified position is so dramatically different. It looks even more that way in this case since you first told me that I "don't know squat" and then, in essence, adopted my position. It would have been pretty easy to say something to the effect of, "if you plan to use a light then make sure you get proper training with that equipment." BTW, the problem of in improper training is just as serious whether the person attempts to employ a light or just a gun. Coming back with faux (at least I hope it is faux) righteous indignation over people coming to conclusion about your knowledge based on the statements you've made is pretty laughable really. It is like acting shocked and appalled if someone presumes you are no good at bowling after watching you bowl a few games of 80. It is even funnier to me after you told me that I "don't know squat." Was that not an assumption about my knowledge? What was it based on if not what I had written? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. In sum, say what you mean. That will make life easier for everyone.
 
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Spc Schrader,

As Louis Awerbuck says- "It's the Indian, not the arrow." Most any good reliable shotgun will do fine for defensive work, it's the shooter's ability to run the gun safely and efficiently and hit what is shot at that matters most.

If you have family members or friends with shotguns, see if you can manage to get some trigger time on various makes/models. Or look for gun clubs or ranges nearby with rental guns you can try out. Worst comes to worst, go to several different gun shops and see what they have available that you can handle, and see what make/model seems to fit you best and feel right in your hands. It's better to make up your mind based on some hands-on experience IMHO.

Happy shopping,

lpl

PS- If you ever PCS to Ft. Bragg, drop me a PM.
 
I have no problems with what Girodin has said, but still I have an express 870 with a vent rib 28" bbl and an 18.5 non rifled slug barrel with rifle sights and I feel fine with them. The gun wears the 18.5 for HD unless I hunt or shoot clays. Then I simply mount the 28. You probably don't NEED everything that could possibly be an advantage to be effective, but if you have the $ and inclination advantages don't hurt either.

An old geezer with a SxS L.C. Smith can still flat ruin an intruders whole day if he is familiar and practiced with his weapon. A mall ninja with $ 2,500.00 of tactical goodness might be ineffective if he is not familiar and practiced.
 
honestly, if you want a GOOD shotgun, but cost matters, get the Mossberg 590a1, either 18.5" or 20".

if you can spend a little more, look at the 870 police magnum. I feel these are your best bets in a new mass production pump shotgun. if you need to spend less than either, look for a used Winchester 1300 Defender.


but like Lee and others have said, pretty much a case of the indian and not the arrow. haha. the weapon you're familiar with and that you trust is the one you want to stake your life on. the guns above are my highest recommendation, but they may not work for you.
 
i recommend a mossberg 930spx

mine has yet to malfunction with buckshot (only 2 hang ups with very light target loads)

i prefer auto's as you dont have to use 2 hands to operate them and you dont run a risk of short-stroking it like a pump thus making it easier to open doors if need be

i keep mine loaded with 3'' mag 00buck (its the clear the yard gun and i have had bears and such here hence why i prefer the bigger loads)
 
If it's for a man I'd say a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870.
18 1/2" barrel, pump. 12 ga. loaded with #4 buck, reduced recoil.

If a woman might find herself defending the home, then I'd say a Mossberg or Remington pump, 18 1/2" barrel, in .410 with #3 buck.

I personally like the pistol grip, but it's not for everyone. I have the Knoxx grip on my Mossy, and it's actually fun to shoot = more practice.
 
Above is great advice.

I'll add that shotguns are NOT drop safe generally. That means a loaded shotgun, with one in the chamber, can fire if dropped hard or if you buttstroke someone. I keep mine loaded but with the barrel facing the floor and leaning in a corner, concealed from view, so it can't fall and if it falls it'll be facing the corner, not the interior room.
 
Girodin, you comment proves my point. You don't know squat. When you turn on the light you are a target. Suppose the bad guy throws an object to the other side of the room. On goes the light and you are toast.
The light does not remain on more than a fraction of a second...Light on, identify person/bad guy, light off and move and either engage or retreat.
 
If it's for a man I'd say a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870.
18 1/2" barrel, pump. 12 ga. loaded with #4 buck, reduced recoil.

If a woman might find herself defending the home, then I'd say a Mossberg or Remington pump, 18 1/2" barrel, in .410 with #3 buck

Because all men can handle a 12 gauge and no women can handle one, right? :rolleyes:

Don't worry Marty I think he is done sharing his wisdom on this topic with us.

*edit to add that they way Marty describes using a light might not be exactly how I would do it.
 
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