tom barthel
Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2006
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- 57
As a retired LEO, I'm against having ANY special rights denied other citizens. Should I have YOUR rights? Who am I. Am I better than you?
Should LEOs have more "rights" than non-LEOs?
- Thread starter Autolycus
- Start date
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KenpoProfessor
Member
A good reason for ALL to have CCW
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/13308048/detail.html
Slain Police Officer Identified
Suspect Killed Was Cousin Of Skier Bode Miller
POSTED: 6:58 am EDT May 12, 2007
UPDATED: 4:36 pm EDT May 12, 2007
Email This Story | Print This Story
FRANCONIA, N.H. -- A Franconia police officer was shot and killed during a routine motor vehicle stop on Friday.
The state attorney general's office says Corporal Bruce McKay was shot four times and run over by the suspect's car on Route 116 in Franconia. McKay was a 12 year veteran of the Franconia Police Department.
The state attorney general's office says the incident began Friday night when McKay attempted to pull over Liko Kenney on Route 116. Kenney took off, leading McKay on a brief pursuit.
Investigators say when McKay stopped Kenney a second time a mile up the road, he used pepper spray to subdue him. According to police, that's when Kenney shot the officer four times and the proceeded to run the officer over with his car.
State Attorney General Kelly Attorney said a passerby Gregory Floyd witnessed the incident and rushed to the officer's aide. Investigators say Floyd grabbed Corporal McKay's gun and ordered Kenney to drop his weapon. According to Senior Assistant Attorney General Jeff Strelzin, Floyd fatally shot Kenney when he tried to reload his gun.
Ayotte said the state has decided Floyd's actions were justified and he will not be facing any charges.
According to police, there was a previous incident involving Corporal McKay and Liko Kenney. Back in 2003, Kenney was convicted of simple assault and resisting arrest for an incident involving McKay.
Family members said Kenney was ski champion Bode Miller's cousin. Back in September 2005, Corporal McKay pulled Bode Miller over on Route 116 for going 83 miles per hour in an 40 mile an hour zone.
As of Saturday afternoon, Miller did not return any calls to comment about the incident.
Friday night, Governor John Lynch ordered all flags be lowered to half staff. He also visited with first responders in Franconia Saturday that spent the night investigating Corporal McKay's death.
He said, ""My thoughts and prayers, and those of my wife Susan, are with the family of the New Hampshire police officer killed this evening while serving the people of our state."
The last police officer killed in the line of duty was Manchester Officer Michael Briggs, who was shot and killed in October 2006.
Copyright 2007 by TheBostonChannel.com.
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For you LEOs on here that think we either don't deserve, need to fight the legislation, or move to a free state, here's your chance to step up and do what's right. Appeal to the legislators for our safety and yours.
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/13308048/detail.html
Slain Police Officer Identified
Suspect Killed Was Cousin Of Skier Bode Miller
POSTED: 6:58 am EDT May 12, 2007
UPDATED: 4:36 pm EDT May 12, 2007
Email This Story | Print This Story
FRANCONIA, N.H. -- A Franconia police officer was shot and killed during a routine motor vehicle stop on Friday.
The state attorney general's office says Corporal Bruce McKay was shot four times and run over by the suspect's car on Route 116 in Franconia. McKay was a 12 year veteran of the Franconia Police Department.
The state attorney general's office says the incident began Friday night when McKay attempted to pull over Liko Kenney on Route 116. Kenney took off, leading McKay on a brief pursuit.
Investigators say when McKay stopped Kenney a second time a mile up the road, he used pepper spray to subdue him. According to police, that's when Kenney shot the officer four times and the proceeded to run the officer over with his car.
State Attorney General Kelly Attorney said a passerby Gregory Floyd witnessed the incident and rushed to the officer's aide. Investigators say Floyd grabbed Corporal McKay's gun and ordered Kenney to drop his weapon. According to Senior Assistant Attorney General Jeff Strelzin, Floyd fatally shot Kenney when he tried to reload his gun.
Ayotte said the state has decided Floyd's actions were justified and he will not be facing any charges.
According to police, there was a previous incident involving Corporal McKay and Liko Kenney. Back in 2003, Kenney was convicted of simple assault and resisting arrest for an incident involving McKay.
Family members said Kenney was ski champion Bode Miller's cousin. Back in September 2005, Corporal McKay pulled Bode Miller over on Route 116 for going 83 miles per hour in an 40 mile an hour zone.
As of Saturday afternoon, Miller did not return any calls to comment about the incident.
Friday night, Governor John Lynch ordered all flags be lowered to half staff. He also visited with first responders in Franconia Saturday that spent the night investigating Corporal McKay's death.
He said, ""My thoughts and prayers, and those of my wife Susan, are with the family of the New Hampshire police officer killed this evening while serving the people of our state."
The last police officer killed in the line of duty was Manchester Officer Michael Briggs, who was shot and killed in October 2006.
Copyright 2007 by TheBostonChannel.com.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
For you LEOs on here that think we either don't deserve, need to fight the legislation, or move to a free state, here's your chance to step up and do what's right. Appeal to the legislators for our safety and yours.
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
pcosmar
member
Autolycus
Member
It is true that there could be more to the story. However these incidents both happened while the officer was on duty. Should he be given more priveledges than a non-officer while not on duty?
The Amigo
Member
KENPO I believe that most LEO,s here don't believe anyone shall be stripped of their right or are non deserving of CCW unless you are a career criminal of course, But I still stand in my believe that trying to strip leo,s of CCW after hours or nation wide is not nice and does nothing to advance nationwide CCW for all.
KenpoProfessor
Member
Another case for you
http://www.wafb.com/global/story.asp?s=4527526&ClientType=Printable
Bystander Fired Deadly Shot, Not Officer
Feb 22, 2006 12:54 PM PST
Perry Stevens
There were two big developments Monday in the case of a motorist who was shot and killed along Greenwell Springs Road Friday after a fight with a police officer. Investigators say an autopsy shows the deadly bullet was fired by a bystander, not the officer. Police also announced that no charges would be filed in the case, either against the police officer involved or the bystander who fired the fatal shot into the head of George Temple.
East Baton Rouge Sheriff's spokesman Greg Phares says Officer Brian Harrision was escorting a funeral procession Friday when he pulled Temple over and wrote him a ticket for breaking into the procession. According to Phares, that's when Temple attacked Harrison. Police say Perry Stevens was walking outside of the Auto Zone on Greenwell Springs Road when he heard Harrison yelling for help. Harrison was reportedly on his back with Temple on top of him. That's when Stevens went to his car and grabbed his .45 caliber pistol.
According to Col. Greg Phares, "[Mr. Stevens] orders Mr. Temple to stop and get off the officer. The verbal commands are ignored and Mr. Stevens fires four shots, all of which struck Mr. Temple."
Perry Stevens fired four shots into Temple's torso. Officer Harrison had already fired one shot into Temple's abdomen. With Temple still struggling with the officer, Perry continued to advance toward the scuffle.
"He again orders Mr. Temple to stop what he was doing and get off the officer. Those commands are ignored and he fires a fifth shot and that hits his head. The incident is over with, and as you know, Mr. Temple is dead."
Police are calling the shooting death justified. Perry Stevens has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Col. Phares would not give out any more details relating to the shooting. Both Phares and Baton Rouge Police Chief Jeff LeDuff stopped short of crediting Stevens with saving the officer's life. LeDuff says the entire incident is unfortunate.
"I spoke with his father at the scene briefly," said LeDuff. "I think this is a tragic situation all around."
9 News is told George Temple has a criminal record, and Officer Harrison was involved in a shooting while employed as a prison guard in
============================================================
What we're getting at Amigo is why are you not doing something more to convince your superiors? You are part of the problem by telling us to talk to our legislators, move, change jobs,etc., but why aren't you willing to go to bat for us? Think about it, that very well could've have been you on the ground, and none of us want to see that happen, you're supposed to be the good guys. When you speak to us the way you do, do you think we're going to care as we watch it happen to you or your fellow officers as we attempt to call 911? Is that fair?
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
http://www.wafb.com/global/story.asp?s=4527526&ClientType=Printable
Bystander Fired Deadly Shot, Not Officer
Feb 22, 2006 12:54 PM PST
Perry Stevens
There were two big developments Monday in the case of a motorist who was shot and killed along Greenwell Springs Road Friday after a fight with a police officer. Investigators say an autopsy shows the deadly bullet was fired by a bystander, not the officer. Police also announced that no charges would be filed in the case, either against the police officer involved or the bystander who fired the fatal shot into the head of George Temple.
East Baton Rouge Sheriff's spokesman Greg Phares says Officer Brian Harrision was escorting a funeral procession Friday when he pulled Temple over and wrote him a ticket for breaking into the procession. According to Phares, that's when Temple attacked Harrison. Police say Perry Stevens was walking outside of the Auto Zone on Greenwell Springs Road when he heard Harrison yelling for help. Harrison was reportedly on his back with Temple on top of him. That's when Stevens went to his car and grabbed his .45 caliber pistol.
According to Col. Greg Phares, "[Mr. Stevens] orders Mr. Temple to stop and get off the officer. The verbal commands are ignored and Mr. Stevens fires four shots, all of which struck Mr. Temple."
Perry Stevens fired four shots into Temple's torso. Officer Harrison had already fired one shot into Temple's abdomen. With Temple still struggling with the officer, Perry continued to advance toward the scuffle.
"He again orders Mr. Temple to stop what he was doing and get off the officer. Those commands are ignored and he fires a fifth shot and that hits his head. The incident is over with, and as you know, Mr. Temple is dead."
Police are calling the shooting death justified. Perry Stevens has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Col. Phares would not give out any more details relating to the shooting. Both Phares and Baton Rouge Police Chief Jeff LeDuff stopped short of crediting Stevens with saving the officer's life. LeDuff says the entire incident is unfortunate.
"I spoke with his father at the scene briefly," said LeDuff. "I think this is a tragic situation all around."
9 News is told George Temple has a criminal record, and Officer Harrison was involved in a shooting while employed as a prison guard in
============================================================
What we're getting at Amigo is why are you not doing something more to convince your superiors? You are part of the problem by telling us to talk to our legislators, move, change jobs,etc., but why aren't you willing to go to bat for us? Think about it, that very well could've have been you on the ground, and none of us want to see that happen, you're supposed to be the good guys. When you speak to us the way you do, do you think we're going to care as we watch it happen to you or your fellow officers as we attempt to call 911? Is that fair?
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
The Amigo
Member
KENPO I have been very proactive as far as nationwide CCW don't get me wrong, But most LEO,s in high ranking positions could care less what u and me think because they respond to the Mayor (a politician) or media Pressure.
So don't you think we shall go straight to the root of the problem? We have an unfair Law of control over Nationwide CCW along with other laws that make no sense I agree.
But don't you think it makes more sense to attack the people who actually put these laws in place or can make a change to these laws?
Remember a Chief of police even do hes in charge of a police dept he does not represent the feeling of all the people who work for him and he only responds to his and the mayors interest.
KenpoProfessor
Member
I certainly don't see officers anywhere pleading to the Mayors or any other politicians. I also see them arrest hundreds of normally law abiding citizens that live in a no issue or may issue state for CCW. When are the LEOs going to go to the legislators? When will they put their feeling into their actions if they know it's unconstitutional but say "it's the job". The Nazi's tried that line if I remember.
Did you also know in the latest study, almost 35% of police officers said they would confiscate legal guns if told to do so?
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
Did you also know in the latest study, almost 35% of police officers said they would confiscate legal guns if told to do so?
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
The Amigo
Member
Maybe this can answer your question.
http://www.leaa.org/Cops Versus Gun Control/copsversusguncon.html
Autolycus
Member
The Amigo:
I know that LEAA is a pro-gun organization. But what about the rest. What about the fact that you guys work for these people? They are your bosses and you answer to them. Why not write your politicians as LEOs and say you refuse to work for these anti-gun people? Why not form other LEO organizations that are openly pro-RKBA and wield that power? The LEAA is open to non-LEOs which greatly reduces credibility in the eyes of the public? If anyone can join it can easily be argued that a bunch of gunowners joined and swayed the organization to a path which they feel supports their views. Why do police unions and police departments feel the need to voice their opinions and why do not the so called majority of LEOs who support us step up and help us out like we did?
Why not stop enforcing anti-gun laws and other unconstitutional laws? If the politicians have nobody to enforce the unconstitutional laws then those laws will become worthless. If the majority of gun-friendly LEOs, whom I do not believe exists, will stop arresting people for guns then we might see a change in the law.
So why wont you help us? If it is the politicians and the lawmakers we should be angry with, and they are Partially Responsible, then why do we not see LEOs arrest them when they do something unconstitutional or illegal? Such as Bloomberg getting on TV and admitting that he made straw purchases? Or the police officer who admitted to possessing drugs and using them with his wife in the form of brownies? Why wasnt he charged? If you enforce the law then please enforce it equally.
I know that LEAA is a pro-gun organization. But what about the rest. What about the fact that you guys work for these people? They are your bosses and you answer to them. Why not write your politicians as LEOs and say you refuse to work for these anti-gun people? Why not form other LEO organizations that are openly pro-RKBA and wield that power? The LEAA is open to non-LEOs which greatly reduces credibility in the eyes of the public? If anyone can join it can easily be argued that a bunch of gunowners joined and swayed the organization to a path which they feel supports their views. Why do police unions and police departments feel the need to voice their opinions and why do not the so called majority of LEOs who support us step up and help us out like we did?
Why not stop enforcing anti-gun laws and other unconstitutional laws? If the politicians have nobody to enforce the unconstitutional laws then those laws will become worthless. If the majority of gun-friendly LEOs, whom I do not believe exists, will stop arresting people for guns then we might see a change in the law.
So why wont you help us? If it is the politicians and the lawmakers we should be angry with, and they are Partially Responsible, then why do we not see LEOs arrest them when they do something unconstitutional or illegal? Such as Bloomberg getting on TV and admitting that he made straw purchases? Or the police officer who admitted to possessing drugs and using them with his wife in the form of brownies? Why wasnt he charged? If you enforce the law then please enforce it equally.
gc70
Member
Tecumseh:
LEOs are not going to step back and uniformly ignore gun laws. The vast majority of gun law violations that LEOs encounter involve things that should be prevented, stopped, or punished. And LEOs do often use discretion in those other cases.
The Amigo:
The fact that LEOSA gives LEOs a special privilege unavailable to the average citizen is contrary to the American ethos of equality. Adding to that sense of unfairness, a lot of gun owners are unhappy that the number of LEOs visible and vocal about national reciprocity seemed to get very small after LEOSA was passed. In frustration, people have said that LEOSA should never have been passed or that it should be repealed, but I am not aware of anyone who is actively working to repeal LEOSA.
Thank you for speaking up for national reciprocity - not many LEOs seem to be doing so and you need to encourage others to speak up.
LEOs are not going to step back and uniformly ignore gun laws. The vast majority of gun law violations that LEOs encounter involve things that should be prevented, stopped, or punished. And LEOs do often use discretion in those other cases.
The Amigo:
The fact that LEOSA gives LEOs a special privilege unavailable to the average citizen is contrary to the American ethos of equality. Adding to that sense of unfairness, a lot of gun owners are unhappy that the number of LEOs visible and vocal about national reciprocity seemed to get very small after LEOSA was passed. In frustration, people have said that LEOSA should never have been passed or that it should be repealed, but I am not aware of anyone who is actively working to repeal LEOSA.
Thank you for speaking up for national reciprocity - not many LEOs seem to be doing so and you need to encourage others to speak up.
Autolycus
Member
Can you please elaborate?
gc70
Member
See above for why this is a fantasy.
Autolycus
Member
Can't a government agent stop supporting Unconstitutional laws by not enforcing them? What is wrong with that? Such as Joseph A. Banner CPA (former IRS agent) who was angry that there is no law forcing people to pay taxes? He tended his resignation after he found out. Here is a link to his blog: http://joebanister.blogspot.com/
If they are told to not allow people into a church because the government does not approve of it, is that legal? Is it ok for them to deny someone the right to an attorney? What about if they disturb a protest? Would they violate any other right but the 2nd so blatantly and feel ok? I mean there will always be a few but if the majority of LE feel this way and are people who believe in the Bill of Rights then why do they violate the 2nd Amendment?
If they are told to not allow people into a church because the government does not approve of it, is that legal? Is it ok for them to deny someone the right to an attorney? What about if they disturb a protest? Would they violate any other right but the 2nd so blatantly and feel ok? I mean there will always be a few but if the majority of LE feel this way and are people who believe in the Bill of Rights then why do they violate the 2nd Amendment?
crebralfix
member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2004
- Messages
- 1,356
What really scares me is when they refer to non-LEOs as "civlians".
All LEOs are civilians. The fact that many think they are not (including management) reinforces the notion that they are somehow special.
Of course, they are already given special status because they can purchase new NFA weapons. While the pool of machine guns for "civilians" limited to those registered many years ago, government agents have free access to new weapons.
All LEOs are civilians. The fact that many think they are not (including management) reinforces the notion that they are somehow special.
Of course, they are already given special status because they can purchase new NFA weapons. While the pool of machine guns for "civilians" limited to those registered many years ago, government agents have free access to new weapons.
The Amigo
Member
Here's another good article for those of you who say most LEO,s don't stand behind CCW for all.
http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=36094
http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=36094
Autolycus
Member
The Amigo: Your link is not working.
The Amigo
Member
My bad try now.
Someone brought up the reason why I'm against giving the police any special rights. It's meant to divide the police off from the citizenry and remove their voice from calls for nationwide carry. Unfortunately, the police are all too rapidly becoming the 21st century version of the "standing army" that the founders feared: a professional, armed body; distant from, and disloyal to, the people.
why is this even an issue?
of course everyone should have the sames rights.
the problem is not that LEOs have more rights, it is that we have allowed some of our precious liberties to become privileges and LEOs certainly enjoy many more privileges than us commoners.
that is a necessary condition to keep us in line.
of course everyone should have the sames rights.
the problem is not that LEOs have more rights, it is that we have allowed some of our precious liberties to become privileges and LEOs certainly enjoy many more privileges than us commoners.
that is a necessary condition to keep us in line.
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