Should Mandatory Skills Training Be Part of the Curriculum of Receiving a CWP?

[CoRoMo]

I agree. CCW permits should have mandatory...
The accuracy standard ... should be suitable: 5 shots within a 6" paper plate.

So you're against legally blind people from exercising their 2nd Amendment rights.

How bigoted of you.

Are there any other classes of minorities that you don't believe should have inherent rights simply because of they way they were born?

Gays? Hispanics? Those born with dwarfism? Deaf?

 

[NoVA Shooter]

Might help in some cases.

Is that a bad thing????????????????????

If it becomes a box that needs to be checked and is done without care, yes it can be. In the industry I work in, we have certifications and annual trainings ad nauseam. What ends up happening is that many (most) people simply breeze through the course work as quick as they can simply to pass the test with minimal effort. Nothing is learned and even worse, it creates a level of resentment for the training. Not saying this is exactly what happens (or will) happen with mandatory firearm training, but it is one example of where forced training is not a good thing.

 

[jcwit]

If it becomes a box that needs to be checked and is done without care, yes it can be. In the industry I work in, we have certifications and annual trainings ad nauseam. What ends up happening is that many (most) people simply breeze through the course work as quick as they can simply to pass the test with minimal effort. Nothing is learned and even worse, it creates a level of resentment for the training. Not saying this is exactly what happens (or will) happen with mandatory firearm training, but it is one example of where forced training is not a good thing.

Remembering way back in a former life when there was still a military draft, required training was well warranted. And in a very high percentage of the cases it worked very well.

Now I'm not saying that people who wish to own a gun need to go thru Basic Training, I'm only bringing out that forced training does work, or at least did back then, but with the current downfall of society who knows.

 

[CLP]

If you do not have to be a citizen to become POTUS, be a citizen or read/speak English to vote, and can be a felon to own a gun, vote and run for office, why should there be requirements to exercise your right?

I say no too...
But re: exercising of free speech you can argue that schooling/education is mandated though the quality varies drastically depending on locale.

 

[NoVA Shooter]

My state required mandatory hunter safety to get a hunting license. That didn't keep my parents from teaching me to hunt safely and ethically before and after I took that class.

Likewise my state required mandatory driver's education before I could get my learner's permit. That didn't keep my father from taking me out when I was 12 and teaching me to drive. It didn't keep him from taking me to a empty parking lot after it had snowed and teaching me to properly pump the brakes and control skids.

Good for you and your parents. I'm not being facetious, I really commend your parents for taking responsibility to make sure you were trained. The problem is that, from my observations, your parents are in a ever shrinking minority. As the government intrudes more and more into our lives, less and less parents will take active part in training because either they feel the mandatory training is sufficient or they believe that if the government is not telling us to do it, it's not needed.

Some parent take a more active role in their kids lives than others. That doesn't mean that the state shouldn't set a minimum level of competency for some things.

And what is the magic line that defines 'some things'?

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Make these things mandatory in middle school and high school. They can't be made mandatory to Keep and Bear Arms, though. The Second Amendment forbids it.

Woody

 

[jcwit]

Something the NRA should consider and implement.

 

[BSA1]

CCW permits should have mandatory training and a live fire requirement. The accuracy standard that my parents used before I was allowed to hunt should be suitable: 5 shots within a 6" paper plate.

Since you are setting your personal arbitrary standard for everyone. With my former department I usually shot with 1 or 2 points of a perfect score. We shot from 3 - 25 yards and 6 rounds weak hand. Until you can match my score I believe you are undertrained and pose a risk to the general public. Therefore you should not have a concealed carry permit.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Make these things mandatory in middle school and high school. They can't be made mandatory to Keep and Bear Arms, though. The Second Amendment forbids it.

Woody

No offense Woody but in my short lifetime I've only seen one schoolteacher I would trust within a rod of a firearm and she was mean enough she didn't need one. We already have an uphill battle trying to force the schools to be competent to effectively teach Johnny to read. It's better to have them prove they can perform their primary function before giving them tangents.

 

[oneounceload]

The LEGALITY of a defensive shooting and it's ramifications should be a mandatory class.

Are YOU offering to pay for it for everyone else?

The answer is NO. With rights come responsibilities. It is YOUR responsibility, not someone else's to do whatever YOU think is necessary to adequately exercise your right.
If you want to never fire it and put it in a sock drawer for 50 years, so be it. If you want to enroll in zombie/SHTF training to fend off imaginary aliens, so be it. How much or how little you choose to exercise your right is your business and no one else can determine that (or should) for you.

 

[tacxted]

No.

We are talking about an enumerated right not a privilege. If we were to allow training requirements we can expect to see those requirements getting more and more demanding all the while more and more free Americans be denied CCP.

Now none of us would argue against firearms training in schools as part of a high school curriculum. I'm sure most of us would like to see that return, I know I would.

But requirements to bear a firearm.... no.

 

[JSH1]

Since you are setting your personal arbitrary standard for everyone. With my former department I usually shot with 1 or 2 points of a perfect score. We shot from 3 - 25 yards and 6 rounds weak hand. Until you can match my score I believe you are undertrained and pose a risk to the general public. Therefore you should not have a concealed carry permit.

I suggested my personal standard, you have suggested yours. In reality standards are set by elected officials, generally after discussion and compromise.

 

[cfullgraf]

Has there been a sharp rise in states that don't have any training requirement?

I do not know what the statistics are accidental discharges in states that do not require training or proficiency requirements. It is probably unchanged for the moment but as i understand, carry permit numbers are relatively small when compared to the entire population.

But, the gun community does not want a rise of increased accidental discharges and should be proactive to minimize the risk.

If the gun community does not act to insure knowledgable and safe gun handling when carrying, the anti-gunners will do it for us. And we will not like what they propose and enact.

 

[DeepSouth]

I have to wonder if the people that support mandatory training want me disarmed? The only real training I have ever had was from my father, and that was mostly rifle/hunting stuff.

I'd imagine that most would say no, but they'd be saying it while supporting "mandatory training" that would do just that would do just that.

Its amazing to me that any Supporter of the 2A could in any way support "MANDATORY"........ Anything gun related, that's just crazy.

 

[morcey2]

How about mandatory firearms training, period. Doesn't matter whether you want a gun or not. That may help.

Mandatory training for a hunting license isn't the same because the 2A isn't about hunting.
Mandatory drivers license training isn't the same because there is no 32nd amendment giving you the right to keep and drive cars.

I'm an NRA instructor and I firmly oppose any mandatory training to exercise any right. As I've said before:

Any right that requires the permission of some authority to exercise is no longer a right. This includes safe-storage laws, training requirements, and such "common sense" changes.

I think everyone that handles guns should seek out training, but that training can't be mandated.

Matt

 

[wojownik]

In an ideal world "mandatory" would cut both ways.
- it should be mandatory for a jurisdiction to issue a CWP to any valid applicant (i.e. the person is real, and not a prohibited person).
- there should be mandatory sentencing guidelines for any government personnel who violate laws pertaining to any denial to issue permits, illegal retention of records or data (e.g. 4473s), etc...

But that's just day dreaming ...

The discussion of mandatory skills training is a distraction to the underlying issue - that the very ability to receive a CWP is still near impossible in many areas (NYC, NJ, MD, DC ...). Case law since Heller suggests that courts are willing to uphold regulations which require a permit to carry concealed weapon (e.g. Kachalsky v Westchester), Both in NY and MD, courts have upheld laws preventing individuals from obtaining a CWP, finding that that these laws did not violate the 2nd Amend.

So to me it less a matter of whether there should be mandatory skills training. The core issue is more of the degree of restrictions that jurisdictions can still impose on individuals wishing to exercise what they see as their right to bear arms.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

No. Carrying is the "B" in RKBA".

 

[marksg]

I voted no but wasn't sure how too word my reason(common problem for me).:banghead:

I think everyone that handles guns should seek out training, but that training can't be mandated

Thanks Matt. Took the words right out of my head

 

[JSH1]

Mandatory training for a hunting license isn't the same because the 2A isn't about hunting.
Mandatory drivers license training isn't the same because there is no 32nd amendment giving you the right to keep and drive cars.

I'm an NRA instructor and I firmly oppose any mandatory training to exercise any right.

The examples I gave above were in response to the claim that if the government regulates something no one seeks additional training.




The Supreme Court has been clear that the 2nd Amendment is subject to regulation. We do not have a right to carry a concealed weapon without restriction. From the Heller decision:

Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Gays? Hispanics? Those born with dwarfism? Deaf?

I'm totally in favor of gay Hispanic deaf dwarves being granted nationwide Constitutional carry -- whatever other arguments for or against permits you can make, someone with all that going on deserves access to firearms if they want it.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

No offense Woody but in my short lifetime I've only seen one schoolteacher I would trust within a rod of a firearm and she was mean enough she didn't need one. We already have an uphill battle trying to force the schools to be competent to effectively teach Johnny to read. It's better to have them prove they can perform their primary function before giving them tangents.

Can't argue with that!

Just set up an NRA sponsored/outlined college-like course to train people how to teach the safe handling of arms - of all types - and make it accredited.

Woody

 

[HRnightmare]

If you say yes you will be called anti-2A. However I do tend to think there are some people out there carrying guns everyday who have NO business around them.

I think in FL you can get away with firing one round into a bucket of sand with the light loads. They teach the requirements at gun shows with no range. I do not know because I got mine by showing my DD214 so I have never taken the class. To be quite fair, at the time I applied and was granted my CWP I had NEVER handled a pistol in a military capacity just the M4 and M16.

 

[george burns]

You should if that right involves a dangerous piece of equipment that you never used before. Don't take for granted that many people who are buying guns are a danger to themselves and possibly to you. They need to at least be shown how to use them, and why we have the 4 rules at least. Not just hand them an AK47 and a box of ammo, and wish them well. That's just irresponsible, not patriotic.

 

[HRnightmare]

I have to wonder if the people that support mandatory training want me disarmed? The only real training I have ever had was from my father, and that was mostly rifle/hunting stuff.

While it is not formal or documented your training probably bests many peoples experience.

 

[HorseSoldier]

No offense Woody but in my short lifetime I've only seen one schoolteacher I would trust within a rod of a firearm and she was mean enough she didn't need one. We already have an uphill battle trying to force the schools to be competent to effectively teach Johnny to read. It's better to have them prove they can perform their primary function before giving them tangents.

When I was in high school in the late 80s/early 90s we had two history teachers who did a yearly gun show where they brought in firearms from colonial times up to WW2 and discussed the impact of the Kentucky long rifle, Colt SAA, various service rifles, etc etc etc on the shape of American history. Huge hit with most students (as I understand it right up until the day where it became a raft of federal felonies to continue it and it had to be stopped) and honestly a much better exposure to firearms than video games, TV/movies, and rap lyrics which became the de facto education on firearms for kids who do not grow up getting instruction on shooting from family members, etc.