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Should my relative have his guns taken away?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by antsi, Jun 11, 2007.

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  1. antsi

    antsi Member

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    This is a different relative than HoosierCheetah who posts here from time to time - not the same guy.

    This "other relative" has been married about a year and a half. He has been increasingly prone to violent drunken rages. He threatens to kill his wife and himself. He has gotten guns out of the safe and threatened her with them.

    I have generally been opposed to laws that take guns away from DV perps, but this situation is giving me pause to reconsider.

    "Shall not be infringed" - does this include people who are threatening their family members in violent drunken rages?
     
  2. trueblue1776

    trueblue1776 Member

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    it does not protect the rights of the mentally unstable, take his guns until he's clean.
     
  3. kungfuhippie

    kungfuhippie Member

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    Your rights can't infringe on the rights of others.
    His right to bear arms does not trump the wife's right to life.
     
  4. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    He needs to lose his guns. His RKBA, in my opinion, ended when he threatened to kill them and menaced them with a gun.

    Period.
     
  5. Molon Labe

    Molon Labe Member

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    She should press charges against her husband.
     
  6. pcosmar

    pcosmar member

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    If that is the only way, Yes. I hate to say it but there are times that the DV laws have their place.
    However my first choice would be to handle it within the family, if possible.
    Though it may not be considered "legal", the men of the family should have a serious talk with him. A confrontation, if you will, and then closely monitor the situation. If necessary, apply negative reinforcement. It is first a family matter, and should only involve the law as a last resort.
    YMMV
     
  7. joab

    joab Member

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    Yes he should have his guns taken away, because people in jail are not allowed to have guns.
     
  8. kungfuhippie

    kungfuhippie Member

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    You need to be proactive in helping her. Get her out of the house tonight if possible.
     
  9. def4pos8

    def4pos8 Member

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    :( Once a threat is conveyed, it's time for the law. Intervention by male family members may result in a lot of work for the coroner. Events like the Delevan, Wisconsin tradgedy do happen. It's sad, but this guy has attained "perp" status and needs to be dealt with quickly and, with luck, safely by the local pros. :(
     
  10. VARifleman

    VARifleman Member

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    Exactly.
     
  11. det.pat

    det.pat Member

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    i agree, this needs to be dealt with before it becomes fatal to someone. if you choose to intervene privately, be very careful and have 911 ready on your cell phone speed dial.
    be careful, and don't allow emotions or familial feelings to cloud your judgement. if it's time to call for help, don't hesitate. the life you save may be your own.

    once you decide to intervene, don't take no for an answer, you must leave with the guns or the wife. if you don't think that she will cooperate [this is VERYcommon in domestics] you may have to call leo anyway. don't be surprised if she fight you harder than he does, this is the most common resaponse from battered or threatened spouses.
    pat
     
  12. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    I hope you are not still at your computer but if you are the time to act would be soonest.
     
  13. ServiceSoon

    ServiceSoon Member

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    +1 Act before it is to late.
     
  14. Frog48

    Frog48 Member

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    Sounds like its long overdue for the men of the family to have a "family conference" with him... if you know what I mean.
     
  15. Powderman

    Powderman Member

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    If he has threatened her with firearms, and was in a position to carry out the threat--demonstrated the ability to carry out the threat--then he has committed the crime of Assault in the First Degree (Washington), aka Assault with a Deadly Weapon-Domestic Violence.

    The police should be involved NOW. If you haven't done so, call them.

    Let them go over there to take the guns. You don't know how close this guy is to snapping.

    Friend, the fuse is burning on a time bomb. Act NOW, and you might save his wife's life.
     
  16. buck00

    buck00 Member

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    We don't need headlines in the paper

    There are certain people who have no business owning guns. And if we truly love our right to keep/bear firearms, then it should be on us to be the most brutal in coming down on those who imperil our rights through irresponsible actions. :fire:

    All it takes is any yahoo (your family member included) to threaten someone with a rifle, discharge a firearm during an argument, be held at gunpoint by the responding police, etc etc and it can hurt everyone's gun rights. The cops go in, find out he owned an AR-15 or SKS, the media gets wind, then the head line reads (more or less) "Wife Beater Wields SKS During Domestic Fight." The public suddenly associates domestic violence with firearms enthusiasm. They begin to question why anyone "needs" an AR-15 or SKS.

    Sad scenario but it can and does happen. Please step in before the police do! That means ASAFP!
     
  17. ConstitutionCowboy

    ConstitutionCowboy member

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    Better to lock him up or institutionalize him until he can be trusted with arms. Taking his guns away from him will do no good if he intends to do harm. He'll either use another weapon or technique to do his deed. The guns ain't the problem. HE is the problem.

    Woody
     
  18. Meathook

    Meathook Member

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    Do something now, not tomorrow, not in ten minutes don't wait. Nobody should live under the circumstances you describe.
     
  19. kungfuhippie

    kungfuhippie Member

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    Taking the guns away is only part of what needs to be done.
    Family intervention once he's committed a crime is a bad idea. Thinking words and threats will fix him is wrong. He sounds like he needs professional help and should not have access to his wife for a while.
     
  20. Kali Endgame

    Kali Endgame member

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    Your relative needs to have his guns confiscated. Domestic violence is not acceptable for any reason. His rights do not supercede his wife or childs rights. No person has any right to terrorize another for their own amusement.

    Sorry about the low road response, THR.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2007
  21. Aguila Blanca

    Aguila Blanca Member

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    Give that man a cookie.

    This is the correct answer. Threatening is a crime. This isn't a verbal altercation or a mutual shoving match, this is a serious threat of "grievous bodily harm." The fact is, at the time "cuz" is muttering such threats, wifey dearest would be entirely within her rights to shoot him. Failing that as a solution, he should be arrested, tried, convicted and incarcerated. When he has done his time, he can petition to have his RKBA restored ... and see how far it gets him.

    I remain opposed to the general suspension or revocation of the RKBA is domestic violence situations. The probability is too high that none of the parties is telling the truth, and that someone's rights will be unfairly curtailed.
     
  22. JerryM

    JerryM Member

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    He should lose his guns, and go to jail. There are those who should not own guns. He is one of those people.

    Jerry
     
  23. skinnyguy

    skinnyguy Member

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    My stepdad used to drink, and he got ugly violent when he was drunk, that was pretty much every day. He got to the point where he had to quit drinking. When he did that, the ugliness stopped. Thankfully, because he could have killed my mom, or she could have killed him. I'm exceedingly happy that scenario never happened, though my mom has told me it was as close as pulling the trigger.

    My stepdad is really a great guy who used to have a HUGE problem, and it seems your relative may be in the same boat.

    At this point, get his wife and the guns away from him, and take your other relatives to talk to him. He either gets help for his anger and drinking, or he will have help given to him, either by the law or by your crew. Be reasonable first, and hope he can see the light. If he can't see the good help, he will eventually be helped in really bad way.
     
  24. Elza

    Elza Member

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    I am the first one to say that the police can seldom protect people from harm. However, this is one case where they can. She needs to swear out a complaint. Pronto!!!!
     
  25. Caimlas

    Caimlas Member

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    Just thinking here... here's one potential approach:

    Approach his best friend(s) and let them know the 411. Approach your (and his) male family members with the same. Then, with at least 4 of them plus yourself, confront him (non-aggressively) when he is most likely to not be in a foul mood or armed, and let him know (in no uncertain terms) that it's time for either a sit down or a drag-out. Let him know that it's time for an intervention, and either he deals with his friends and family peacefully - people who have his best interests in mind - or you will can deal with it outside of the family.

    (In yesteryear, it was supposedly not uncommon for such "interventions" to involve one or two people having an extended "lecture and a beating" with such an individual, I've heard.)

    Make sure he is clear on your family conditions (temporary removal of firearms from the house, absolutely no drinking, counseling alone and with wife, etc.), as well as the alternative (ie what the law will do to him). Make sure his wife is in complete agreement with you as to your approach: she might prefer doing something else (just having the cops deal iwth it) or she might be operating in "beaten victim mode" (there's another official term for it, but I'm tired and can't recall it) and would prefer to side with him out of fear of losing him. However, I thin that if you approach this in a level-headed manner, with people he trusts or may hold authority in his life (father, brother, etc.) you may be successful.

    Is this person in his 20s? A person's 20s is often when mental illness manifests itself. Is there a history of it (dementia, Alzheimer's, bipolar, depression, etc.)? If no, then there's probably something distinct that is causing his freak-outs. He needs to address it, and come to terms. Often in America, men are taught that they've got to hold their problems in. Yes, that's how we tend to deal with things (internally), but it is also the case that many people aren't able to do so. When those people hold their problems in long enough, you are presented with a sad example of psychosis, such as Cho or Witman.

    I should note that it is ABSOLUTELY important that he's sober when you approach him (and hopefully alone/not with his wife), and that you and everyone else gets the impression of his honest intent of compliance. He will need to have people - family and friends - checking up on him to make sure he's complying with the agreement.

    This is, at least, what I would attempt to do for my friends and male family members. Better to work it out before the law gets involved. It would NOT be a bad idea for him (or his wife) to step outside the scenario for a while (go live with a family member) until his problem is determined and reconciliation is made possible.

    Keep a cool head, THR folks: you never know what the problem could be. He could have a brain tumor that is causing his erratic behavior. If that's the case, and it's something "fixable", it would be horrible to deprive him of his liberties over a medical complication. Frankly, I am surprised you all are as ready as you are to have this guy call the cops when there are apparently loving family members close by able to help (that's my read on the situation - obviously I can be ignored if it's not true).
     
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