Should my relative have his guns taken away?

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if he is just a drunk but fine when he is not drinking

then one of those interventions may be in order.
the problem with a dv conviction is it is forever, he could give up drinking and even after 20 years of outstanding citizenship, still not be able to legally to own a .22....

take the guns and wife and hide them, he gets them back after a year of continuous sobriety in AA...wife should check out al anon
 
Problem with that approach, is that it only takes one time falling off the wagon to kill someone. If he can't control himself, and has shown a complete inability to act in a responsible manner with his guns, then what's so tough about taking them away?

I'm not trying to start a fight, but it seems like there's a lot of sentiment that folks would wish him to be able to regain the right to own guns at a later date. I'm not so sure about this - in my mind, the fact that he physically threatened his wife with a gun says that he's waay, way outta bounds and while alcohol may have enabled him to go that little bit further, there's something in him that is not going to just go to sleep if he's unable to drink. That's some serious lack of control, drunk or not.
 
Also - a drunk is a drunk for life, no matter how long it's been since they've had a nip. I know from experience - My two uncles are drunks (well, the one who's still alive is, anyway) their father was a drunk, as was their grandfather and one uncle. Relapse is common, as it is with most addictions. To think that his sobriety will be something that his friends or family will be able to monitor is a bit of a fallacy, when you have an addiction you WILL find ways to feed it. And that's where my post above comes in. He plays nice, makes sure that he's a good boy so the family will get off his back (and this is almost assuredly how he'll look at it, given his already agressive outlook on family) and when he satisfies them that he's been a good boy and gets his guns back he'll feel free to go back to doing what he wants. Why should he continue to be good? He's convinced the family he's straightened his life out, they're leaving him alone, he has his property back..free again. Then comes the violence.

If he's judged unfit to own guns by a court, then he's barred. Period. That still may not stop him, but it's a damn sight better than the family holding it over his head (again, likely how he'll view it) and it's a sure bet that johnny law will punish him harder than the fam will.
 
He threatens to kill his wife and himself. He has gotten guns out of the safe and threatened her with them.
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She should have killed him then, and resolved the issue. Hopefully she's at least brought a DVRO proceeding. The magistrate can remove his firearms by court order. There's no RKBA issue here, since that right like many others can be lost by individual misconduct and abuse.
 
There are a lot of folks here that feel very strongly about this, but I can't pretend to understand the severity of the situation. None of us really know what is going on.

But maybe you and your pops should go over there and explain how concerned you are. And then suggest he let you take his guns until he has his problem under control. I wouldn't want my family to end up in prison, if you can fix this without his freedom coming into jeopardy, I think that would be most ideal.

Make sure his wife knows where to go when he starts to get rough. I think it's wrong to assume the man is a murderer, and get him in trouble His family should be looking out for him.
 
Taking his guns away and leaving the spouse in the home is no answer. People kill each other all kinds of ways and he would just go and buy another gun and hide it anyway.

If he is as violent as you say he will require some serious cleaning up before the home is safe. The actions you have described require an immediate intervention. The nature of that intervention is up to you and your family to decide. To sit by and do nothing might be a little hard to live with when things reach a likely tragic conclusion.
 
Most seem to address this issue from the wrong side. As woodci said so well, taking away his guns will only force him to employ some other tool to use for abuse... ie kitchen knife, baseball bat, fist, foot. You can never take away all of the "weapons".

The best solution in my opinion is to take the wife to the gun shop and set her up with the means to defend herself. Take her to the range to practice... give her instruction in armed self defense... Make sure she is always carrying and he does not need to know.

Putting the guy in jail is not a permanent solution, (not that it should not be done) Eventually he will be out to threaten again. She needs to know how to stop him if needed. She is not helpless here... give her the tools to solve this problem.
 
Words of wisdom from an old drunk

I was a violent drunk, my father was a violent drunk , both of my grandfathers, one grandmother and all the uncles I know are violent drunks, so I have some experience in the matter

Interventions are nice plots for Lifetime movies but in real life they seldom work and often escalate the problem

When you leave with your sense of accomplishment and he leaves to go to the bar guess who he is going to blame for your interference

Drunks are experts at lying and fixing blame on others for our shortcomings
 
Leave the guns, take the man into custody. But first make sure you have the cooperation of the wife. If she isn't sure she wants out of the relationship, there is nothing you can do. If she refuses to testify or changes her story, he is going to stay out of prison. He will be back, he will be armed and he will probably be pissed at you for ratting him out.

And no, it doesn't matter that you know she is telling the truth now. You can't testify about what she said earlier about what he was doing. Hearsay.

You guys who are saying the guns should be confiscated need to have your heads checked and maybe make sure you are logged on to the right forum. This isn't http://forum.blame_inanimate_objects.com. If the guy is really set on hurting his wife, he can always use a knife, poison, a blunt instrument or his bare hands. Taking away the guns doesn't do a damn thing beyond insuring that he will kill her quietly.
 
Tough situation.

My wife had a girlfriend whose husband was JPN ("Just Plain Nuts") and we were convinced that he was going to kill her and the kids. We tried many times to get her help and to get her away from him. However, each time she went crawling back to him because "I love him" (never mind that his idea of love was to smack her around.) Finally we lost contact with her, and I wonder to this day if she is still subject to his abuse.

In other words, if she doesn't want her situation to change there isn't a whole lot that you can do. Also, make sure that he doesn't have an opportunity to bring charges against you for "stealing" his weapons.
 
My reaction would depend on just who the relative is. If it was my brother, father, grandfather, etc., I would just go into his house and take the guns myself, even if I have to take the whole darned safe. I don't want to see any of them get into trouble. I would then take them to an inpatient rehab facility to get cleaned up. I'd send my grandmother or mother away for a week or two until he had some time to get his mind straight.

Now if the person is not someone that I care to take great pains to protect, I would get the wife and kids to a battered women's shelter STAT. They have protections in place that grandma's house simply doesn't have. No, they aren't the greatest places on earth, but they are certainly better than a casket.

I would then contact the police to get the paperwork flowing and let them do their jobs.

I should add that if the guy married into the family and the wife was my family member, the guy would have some trouble that I care not to discuss on this forum.
 
Rather than talking about it on the Internet, I suggest going to some public service agency which deals with domestic violence. Professional advice is far better than Internet opinion.

While getting guns away is possibly helpful, just because his first thought has been "guns" doesn't mean his next thought might not be "knife" or "baseball bat". The violent thought is the problem, and we can't help you with that.

Whatever, taking action today is far better than dithering at a keyboard.

Art
 
Um,, do you know for sure he did this? I would think the police should have been called right away if he had.
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Not usually. It's called battered wife syndrome.

As for a suggestion, if the guy is violent (presents a danger to self and others) he needs to be removed from the situation. Take away his "toys" he'll find another way. Take -him- out of the situation and there is NO situation.

Focus on the criminal not the tools.

Contact the authorities and have them do their job. Be prepared for the wife to hate you and yours as much or more thant the guy will (at least for a while).
 
Violent Drunk vs. Drunken Violence

Thanks for the replies.

Intervention is underway. Unfortunately this is all happening in a different state so anything direct or hands on by us is difficult to arrange. First step is to get her out of that house and somewhere safe.

I believe this is more than an alcohol problem. The guy has rage problems in general. In this most recent incident he got crazy first then got drunk second. The alcohol certainly isn't helping but it isn't the root of the problem.

Romma: I suppose nobody ever knows anything for certain. Maybe she is actually a space alien, who is getting inside his head and making him do strange things with a mind control ray. But there is enough history in this situation that this is certainly consistent (though an escalation) of what has happened before. Sometimes women are reluctant to call the police even in very extreme circumstances, for a variety of reasons.
 
Maybe she is actually a space alien, who is getting inside his head and making him do strange things with a mind control ray.
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Oh, okay that settles it then...

My point is that if this guy has a history like this, then I would get her away first, then let the police do their job... It helps having some documentation to do what needs to be done.

Be it removing his firearms, or getting a protective order, or having him arrested for threatening her.
 
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Have you witnessed this, personally?

I'm not trying to belittle the situation, but if the man's wife thinks she's in danger, she needs to contact the police and get the protection from abuse order.

It's great to be proactive, but unless you witness this behavior yourself, you really don't know if it's serious. If you interfere without personally affirming the truth...you will be the bad guy.
What you can do is counsel the wife...or better yet, have her get to counseling. Maybe the truth (one way or the other) will come out.

There was a post a short time ago concerning a person calling the police because a man walked into a building with a rifle. This was in Harrisburg, PA if I recall. Turns out it was a BB gun and all the posts berated the "Good Samaritan" for being a nosy busy body.
Are you sure you're not in the same situation?
 
Actually had this happen.

A friend and her hubby are going through a divorce... Hubby is bipolar and owned 3 guns, a Security Six, SW 36 and a Benelli M1. Hubby realized what he was doing and asked me to sell his guns for him. That one worked out well.
 
+2 (the wife is readin over my shoulder)

You're definitely at, actually past, the time to act. Get to it.
 
If that is the only way, Yes. I hate to say it but there are times that the DV laws have their place.
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No, they don't.

The Lautenberg amendment isn't necessary here--"He has gotten guns out of the safe and threatened her with them." That would be Assault with a Deadly Weapon, and sufficient grounds in and of itself to throw his sorry butt in jail.

We don't need more crap like Lautenberg to deal with what's already illegal.
 
His right TKBA ended when he threatened an innocent person with them. Rule number one of owning a gun: Never use them in a threatening manner unless that person has done something serious enough to deserve it. And you DAMN well better have a good reason for doing so.

If you can, try to help the woman get out of the situation. No one deserves to go through what she has experienced.
 
Get her out of the home and the situation.
Get his weapons if possible and store them safely out of his reach and the reach of the state.
Assume he has weapons no one knows about somewhere else, or can get them.


Get her out. 1st priority. Place to live with family/ friends support.

The real question is how much risk/effort are you wanting to put into salvaging him? If you throw him to the state, he will be safely in their system. Family is family--you have to decide.
 
Here's a thought
Just get her out
Maybe he will put the gun to better use on a more convenient target
 
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