Should violent felons be allowed firearms?

[TallPine]

The real question here is do you agree with YOUR rights being limited because of violent felons? Should it be a huge pain to obtain a full auto, etc. for everybody because is supposedly makes it harder for felons?

Yep, you're asking the wrong and/or a loaded question (designed to make anyone who answers "yes" look like a "loony")

Besides, aren't most violent felons released into some sort of parole/probation supervision...? Firearms prohibition as a condition of parole/probation is ok with me, since they are still serving a sentence.

 

[ronto]

Once a violent felon...Always a violent felon...They proved they can't be trusted.

P.S.The original question assumed they were not in prison although they should be. If they were, who would vote for letting them have a firearm?

 

[JesseL]

Once a violent felon...Always a violent felon...They proved they can't be trusted.

Fine, don't let them out of prison.
It's wrong to try to have it both ways (as we do).

 

[SolaScriptura139]

This is similar to an older thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=191154

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Black Market

If someone is a "violent felon" and you send them to jail, then clearly you will keep them there until they are no longer a threat to society.

I mean, the parole board would not let them out otherwise, right?

Now, you have a kind of "limbo" status while you're on parole. You're still in prison but not really. During this period, you don't get to own weapons.

If you successfully complete your parole, you've demonstrated you can re-integrate into society, right? If you screw that up, you go back behind bars.

You can't control the commodity itself (in this case, guns), and the attempt only creates a black market.

If the objective of your "penal" system is rehabilitation, then do it for real, turn them loose, and give them back their rights. If a guy can't be rehabilitated, then you don't let him loose, since he'll just do something violent again. And he'll get his equipment on the black market.

If rehabilitation is impossible, then we quit kidding ourselves and keep them locked up. Tighten up the sentences until actual deterrent effect kicks in. Death penalty as needed.

What you DON'T do is house them for a while, decide you have no room, let them go, and then have a stupid "rule" (that they will ignore) about what they're allowed to own. Once you let them out, you don't control them any more.

And the alternative SUPREME STUPIDITY of trying to control what EVERYONE may own, so that people you can't fix and won't restrain "can't get them" is among the more mind-boggling idiocies of our time.

If they are trustworthy enough to let out, then leave them the hell alone.

Otherwise don't let them out.

 

[SoCalShooter]

Personally, if you violent criminals: rapists, murderers, violent robbers, corrupt CEO's, corrupt politicians should all not be allowed to have any rights and should either be put to hard labor or death.

 

[Walkalong]

Do you think violent ex-cons such as muderers, rapist, and armed robbers should be allowed to legally own firearms upon their release

No. They would not be getting out if I ran the world. If you murder, rape, or molest children, and you are caught red handed, you should be executed.

 

[kfranz]

Not only should they not be allowed to have guns, they should not be allowed to have children. Both should be seen as a privilege not a right.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[S&W 910]

All felons should be denied imo

 

[up_onus]

what a question....
Well, I do not believe non-rehabilitated felons should be allowed out of prison...No matter what the weapon they get, they will hurt somebody.
I mean, they can get a CAR or TRUCK??? but not a gun??? hmmm....

If they are rehabilitated...then sure, its a RIGHT.

 

[Depchief]

Violent criminals who use a firearm in the commission of a felony give up their right to ever legally own a firearm the second they commit the crime, period. They may serve their time in prison, but how would anyone really know if they were ever rehabilitated or not. If they did it once, they have proven that they have the ability to do it again, why give them the chance!

 

[Sean Dempsey]

Violent felons SHOULD have their gun rights revoked.

I know I am in the minority here, but oh well. A similar incidence is DUI's. My dad has had a few... 5 I think. He now has a permanent zero-tolerance drivers license. If he is pulled over with ANY alcohol, he loses his license for a year and does 90 days in jail.

Sorry. You play you pay.

 

[308win]

Convicted felons have already demonstrated that they will not live by the rules society has adopted. They will gain access to firearms if the want them so prohibition of ownership as another charge to hang them with.

 

[wacki]

All felons should be denied imo

What about marijuana related felonies? Despite what you hear on the anti-drug commercials, any medical journal will say weed is far far far safer for your brain than beer.

FYI: I don't smoke weed. I am a scientist that abuses his body with the much more damaging Cabernet Sauvignon.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Broken Paradigm

by Depchief
Violent criminals who use a firearm in the commission of a felony give up their right to ever legally own a firearm the second they commit the crime, period. They may serve their time in prison, but how would anyone really know if they were ever rehabilitated or not. If they did it once, they have proven that they have the ability to do it again, why give them the chance!

1) "serve their time in prison" This paradigm is part of the problem. Putting an arbitrary number on a sentence does nothing to address returning a person to full status as trustworthy member of society.

2) "really know if they were ever rehabilitated" Just so. If rehabilitation is possible, then get a metric that assures you it's been accomplished. If it's not possible, then isolate the bad guys. Why on earth would you release a violent criminal back into society, knowing he can't be trusted, and imagining that you can make rules about what he may own and where he may go? This is just makes me squint.

3) "proven that they have the ability" Everyone has the ability. The vast majority of us are able to manage our abilities and not use them for harm. The question has never been "does he have the ability" but "is it likely he'll do it." If rehabilitated, he's okay now. If not, why are you letting him out?

What is it we think we "owe" criminals? A career criminal is going to be trouble until the day a) he is reformed, or b) he is dead.

This popular objection of "well, by law we have to . . ." -- as though the existence of a law means that rational and logically sound thinking was used in creating the law -- is a common way of sidestepping the need for actual critical thought on the matter.

It's just as well this isn't a law forum. I could rant on for days. Let's not contemplate what the sentence ought to be for writing a stupid law that damages society.

 

[Zen21Tao]

I ususally tend to agree that once a person commits a violent crime he has told society that he isn't willing to live peacful within that society and thus shouldn't be allowed to retain the rights that members of that society have. However, one questions that weighs heavy on me is whether or not a violent 16yr old killer is the same person after he has spent 30 years in prison and been paroled.

Ultimately, I think that violent felons should lose their rights but, after a sufficent amount of time without reoffending, they should have a process avaliable to them through which they can prove they have changed and earn those rights back.

 

[f4t9r]

First let the person that was raped or Family member of murder victim decide.
I think it should be after they have 10 or 15 min. to discuss the matter with said felon , with no penality for what happens in that time. Maybe they could show them some gun safety and what could happen if you do not follow all the rules.
Just an idea !!!!!!!!!

 

[PILMAN]

Personally I feel if someone has a felony for a violent crime, I doubt any ammount of rehabilitation is going to change that person. They should be executed for their crimes or kept in prison. The fact they are able to even breathe the same air as us should be way more than enough for them. If they want a gun, maybe they should have thought about the consequences.

 

[Sean Dempsey]

I know it's not possible here, but I'd love to hear the stories from THR members who willfully committed a violent crime, their reasoning, and their current feelings of rehabilitation.

There's GOT to be some registered users here who have harmed/killed someone in a robbery or something. One can only wonder how they would reply. I know there's no chance that the moderators would allow anyone to talk about such things, but seriously, if you've stabbed/shot someone because you wanted their money, I'd LOOOOOOVE to hear why you should have access to gun rights now that you're paroled.

 

[wacki]

I know it's not possible here, but I'd love to hear the stories from THR members who willfully committed a violent crime, their reasoning, and their current feelings of rehabilitation.

I gave a thief a black eye once. Apparently that's a Class A misdemeanor. Without going into too much detail he took me out to the bars while his friends broke into my car and apartment.

It's violent and it's a crime. If I broke his nose it could have been a felony. Luckily my record is clean now as this guy as a reputation for doing this stuff. So the powers that be were very understanding. It could have very easily turned out differently. Not what you were looking for but I would hope this shows the need for some form of discretion.

 

[.45&TKD]

I'm getting sick of these polls with a faulty premise.
This is what the libs do to sway public opinion, no offense to you personally.

The correct question should be, should violent felons be let free with probation or early parole?

 

[MrDig]

I am a member of the 12 step community (read alcoholic/addict) I haven't had a drink or used drugs for over 18 years. What do you think guys am I rehabilitated? I have never been convicted of a crime, but as an addict/alcoholic I must admit I commited them. That was 18 years ago I am so far removed from the person I once was that I can and have Legally purchased firearms. I currently Have an active premit to purchase a hand gun in the state of MN. I passed all the background checks, I work for a living and when I'm not at work I spend most of my time helpng others to work the 12 steps of AA. Don't tell me that rehabilitation is not possible. I've seen miracles at work on a day to day basis. Again I would ask how long is it reasonable to consider a person a felon. I will grant you the recitivism rate is high, but what about those of us who actually do turn our lives around. Spare me you self righteous BS once a criminal always a criminal I know it's not true from personal experience.

 

[Sean Dempsey]

Spare me you self righteous BS once a criminal always a criminal I know it's not true from personal experience.

No offense to you, my mother, father, and brother are all serious alcoholics that have been in and out of many programs.

You say you're rehabilitated? If so, you can casually drink, right? If one is an alcoholic, and then is rehabilitated through the 12 steps and AA, then once finished "rehabilitating", you are able to drink again, in responsible moderation?

This is not a flame or an insult, so don't take it as such. But my family experience with AA has taught me that most of them believe "once and addict, always an addict", which is why most recovering alcoholics can NEVER drink again.

So if it is not true from personal experience, how many alcoholics and drug addicts do YOU know who have a serious problem, get rehabilitated, and then start drinking and using drugs responsibly and in moderation?


But to answer your question: Yes, if you can now drink and not become addicted or succumb to alcoholism, then yes, you are rehabilitated.

 

[JesseL]

Sean Dempsey:
I believe that MDig was not referring to no longer being an alcoholic, but rather no longer being a criminal.

Trying to apply your reasoning to a felon would be like saying that unless they can still commit a petty crime once in a while without sliding back into old habits of rape and murder, they are not rehabilitated/reformed.

 

[Walkalong]

my family experience with AA has taught me that most of them believe "once and addict, always an addict", which is why most recovering alcoholics can NEVER drink again.

23 Years and counting. No you cannot. The drug of your choice. It does not have to be alcohol.