Should We Be Hiding?

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MoscowMike

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The thread about how to deal with guns while trying to sell your house is interesting. Lots of thoughts about moving gun and reloading supplies out of the house, locking them in a closet or generally hiding the fact that you have firearms. A followup thread about strangers in the house discusses the risks of contractors and other strangers knowing about your collection.

I can understand the issue of upsetting some buyers, and laying yourself open to theft. You do want to stage the house so it's attractive but when you are afraid people would know you are interested in guns it's just another example of hiding. We want people to accept the fact that guns are useful tools and a fun hobby, but when we conceal our interest, people don't know how common firearms ownership is.

Folks posting on gun boards often say that they won't have NRA stickers on their car, and that they try to conceal the fact that they are taking guns out to the range. In todays climate I can understand the concern, the personal risks that you take by making it obvious you own and use guns.

In years past gay and lesbian people had the same attitude. The risks were too high, so they only revealed their true selves to people they trusted. Eventually there was a movement to come out of the closet, to reveal how many people who otherwise seemed "Normal" were gay or lesbian. The argument was that if the general populace knew how many people they dealt with on a regular basis were gay, they would have a harder time discriminating against them.

Are we in the same position that the LGBT populace was in years past? When I was growing up gun ownership and use was seen as common, but over the last fifty years the perception has changed. Many gun owners have retreated into their bubble, hiding their true lives.

I think we cannot win even grudging acceptance from the general populace without taking the risk, coming out of our closet and being more open about our interests and hobbies. Gun haters won't likely change, but the average person who doesn't think they know anyone who owns guns or shoots in matches might be more thoughtful if the family down the street is open about their interests.

Of course if you only want to talk about Mozambique Drills and being ready for the zombie apocalypse you might not find as much acceptance as we would like. :)

It's easier for me to advocate this as a retired man living in North Idaho. I don't have the same risks as someone living in a Seattle downtown condo or working for Levi Strauss in San Francisco. But social change often takes people willing to take risks. Protecting your valuables, whether it's jewelry or guns, isn't the same thing as hiding your lifestyle.

Should we be more open, and if so, what are good strategies?

(Similar post on The Firing Line)
 
I'm not ashamed of who I am and don't hide it. Neither do I force my interests on others... unlike some sports fans.

When it's not 20deg. out, I usually wear an NRA ballcap (which once led to a "conversation" in which an elderly anti-gunner expressed his tentative approval of the Holocaust).

After Columbine, some slacker behind the counter at Starbucks said to me, "Boy, it must take guts to wear that hat THESE days." I replied, "Why? Who's going to make me take it off?"

I'm not easily bullied. And you don't want to test that.
 
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One big difference between being LGBTQ and owning firearms (although the two are far from exclusive) is that you can't steal someone's sexuality or preferences to it. Guns on the other hand are highly valuable, portable and easy to resell. I would say gun owners are very much NOT in the same position as the LGBTQ was, is or will be at any point on that basis alone.

The other threads you have referenced all have the same theme of protecting valuables (guns in this case). I honestly would expect the same behavior of people who have stamp collections, rare books, fancy model trains or anything else that's particularly expensive. I don't dabble in any of those things though so I can't confirm that.
 
Yes, but we should be smart about it. I treat my guns the same way I treat any valuables when a repair person is in the house. I don't advertise them, hopefully reducing the risk of a break-in. There have been movements to normalize behavior that in the past was deemed unacceptable by many. I do the same with gun ownership. For example, when asked about my weekend I let people know that I was at the range in the same tone and manner that I'd let them know I was at my son's basketball game. To me it's a normal activity and I present it as such.
 
Yes, but we should be smart about it. I treat my guns the same way I treat any valuables when a repair person is in the house. I don't advertise them, hopefully reducing the risk of a break-in. There have been movements to normalize behavior that in the past was deemed unacceptable by many. I do the same with gun ownership. For example, when asked about my weekend I let people know that I was at the range in the same tone and manner that I'd let them know I was at my son's basketball game. To me it's a normal activity and I present it as such.
Being a macrophotographer AND a shooter, I have plenty of stuff to steal. I don't leave blinds open, and don't generally have firearms or firearms accessories in plain sight when strangers make their VERY infrequent visits. Guns I'm not currently using for carry stay locked up out of sight.
 
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I think we cannot win even grudging acceptance from the general populace without taking the risk, coming out of our closet and being more open about our interests and hobbies. Gun haters won't likely change, but the average person who doesn't think they know anyone who owns guns or shoots in matches might be more thoughtful if the family down the street is open about their interests.
What you're saying would make sense -- if this were the 1950's. Society has changed, especially regarding guns. Attitudes are too polarized, and security risks are too great.
 
In many ways, I feel that getting 'pro-gun' people to hide their interest from those who might otherwise become interested and pro-gun is the REAL objective of "Red Flag" laws.

If your hobby is socially disapproved of, but legal, you've only got so much to lose by being public about it.

If you know that someone who doesn't know you at all can get the tools of your hobby seized (because they "didn't feel safe"), there's a real incentive not to be public about it.

For myself, I don't hide that I'm "pro-gun" from friends and family, but I'm generally discrete in public and with strangers (no NRA bumper sticker, etc.). I know that makes some of my friends uncomfortable at times... but it has also resulted in some of them coming to me for advice. That in turn has led to some of them becoming at least somewhat knowledgeable about firearms.

I've said similar things elsewhere but I'll say it again here: we aren't going to change the anti-gunners' minds. But for every anti-gunner there are several people who are simply ignorant. The ignorant can be taught... if we teach them. If we don't then in the end we'll lose. People who find their way to the "pro-gun" side accidentally seem to be quite rare - certainly outnumbered by the dying old guard. No one else will teach them; the NRA isn't going into schools to teach gun safety much any more.

Let people find out that you're a good person. Then let them find out you're pro-gun. Those who don't know you... that's up to you.
 
In years past gay and lesbian people had the same attitude. The risks were too high, so they only revealed their true selves to people they trusted. Eventually there was a movement to come out of the closet, to reveal how many people who otherwise seemed "Normal" were gay or lesbian.
So Mike, are you suggesting I take my guns "out of the closet" so to speak?:D
Sorry, couldn't resist. However, I am the OP in the "Strangers In Our House" thread, and I really don't know what my being cautious about not letting anyone and everyone know that I have valuable firearms in my house has to do with gay and lesbian people having the same attitude about their sexuality.
BTW, I wear a Weaver, Sportsman's Warehouse, or Cabela's ball cap most of the time when I go to town. I don't wear my NRA ball cap because it's black and doesn't match most of my shirts and jackets - not because I don't want people to know I'm a member of the NRA. On Veteran's Day, I wear my Vietnam Veteran ball cap - it's good for a free breakfast at Perkins.:)
 
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I wish I could adequately say what I want without being too political. I’ll try.

A difference in LGBTQ rights and 2A rights is that one has been gaining acceptance and the other losing acceptance. I think much of the unacceptability of guns and gun owners is the other values many, and very vocal, gun rights activists have. It could also be many other things. I don’t know.

One, the gay rights issue, is an inherent, natural for some, right to personal conduct that was denied for a long time. The other is a codified right to own the necessary tools to aid in you in your natural right to self defense. One is about conduct. One is about property (to aid in legal conduct).

It doesn’t do us any favors to tie guns solely to one party or tie it to any other ideology that isn’t also pro-freedom.

Be a vocal gun owner and be a good representative of the gun community, but don’t be surprised if your other social views also taint your view on guns.

We simply aren’t going to gain social acceptance if the most vocal among us and our main lobbyist are going against other social change that many agree with.

I don’t hide my gun ownership, but I have fairly 2019 mainstream social views on everything else...live and let live.

That said, some find my gun ownership offensive. An equal amount of people on the other side find my religious and other social views offensive. Can’t win ‘em all.
 
I think the OP is onto something. Guns need to be mainstream if we want to attract people and protect the 2A. Seeing a Glock sticker on the back of a car should be as common as seeing the sticker of a favorite sports team. I’d like to see pro gun celebrities endorsing gun manufacturers just like celebrities endorse certain beverages. Unfortunately, there are a lot of mindless people who will do whatever someone on TV says or whatever is in vogue. The Democrats capitalize on this fact in so many ways including opinions on guns. We too should start appealing to the masses in addition to the established gun community.
 
I don't hide an NRA cap or shirt, Im management and carry my lunch in an NRA cooler. but I don't have any stickers or anything on my vehicle. Where I live its a safe assumption that the owner has guns. I can honestly not name one family who doesn't have one (minimum). Even my liberal Democrat family members (both of them.... they even went to watch oprah film her show.) Have guns. Father is a reloader and the daughters family has multiple AR rifles etc. . And they are the most left leaning people i know.
I dont have the stickers and such on my car, like many do, not because I'm in hiding but when my car is abandoned somewhere without me it MIGHT be tempting to someone. That's purely a theory though and I've never heard of it being true although it makes sense. To be honest I know of more than once car that's been broken in too and none had any such stickers. As far as the house, unless you have a decent 4x4 you probably couldn't get to it anyway and I don't have strangers over.

Bottom line is I think hiding is a bad idea but how open you can be is entirely based on where you are. If your next to a CNN reporter who says 13 guns and 1000 rounds is an arsenal then you probably have to take a different approach than those of us who routinely shoot a few hundred rounds in the back yard. I could walk in my walmart open carrying (I don't but many do) and no one would care at all. I've been places where a knife clipped on your pocket drew attention.
It's about security for most of us. Not so much hiding our hobby. I know two guy's locally, one drives a new Ferrari. The other a newer Rolls Royce, that do the same with cars. I've never seen either drive them locally. Only on long trips. They aren't hiding their cars because they feel the need to be or are ashamed. They don't want the extra attention in their home town. Obviously their closest neighbors see the cars. But not everyone in the small town knows. Both drive pickups actually. It's about not wanting everyone to know what you have.
 
I don’t have any stickers on my truck except for a “TAG OUT” that resembles the once popular “TAP OUT” logo.

But I do not hide or shy away from the fact I own firearms. I think the major difference is where I live. Not quite rural. Not suburban. More like outskirts of a small(ish) town in Oklahoma. So for me/us, it’s different. Anyone who knows me, knows I have guns. And anyone who lives close to my house and can see me, knows the same thing. But here, it’s not only widely accepted, but seen as a sign of safety should a neighbor need help or get scared.

For someone living in a big city (no thank you) I think that perception changes. Show me a city with a population of a million or even 500,000 that votes republican. If there are any, it will be very few. And no, I’m not getting into the “all Democrats hate guns” because that’s not true. But what is true is that when you live in a larger city, and you’re a LEGAL gun owner, you ARE in the minority. And that fact comes with repercussions and popularized misconceptions. Can that change? Yes. Can it change quickly? No. It only changes a little each day with each person we interact with.

We don’t have to hide the fact we own firearms. But we also can’t go out and treat others like jerks and expect people to suddenly have an epiphany about how wonderful we are as fellow citizens and we own guns so guns must be good. It doesn’t work that way.

Be kind, respectful, and patient with people. But that doesn’t mean let them be verbally or physically abusive to you. If you see an anti-gun post on Facebook (I don’t have it) pose your response with facts. Like the NYT article that says that law enforcement has no constitutional duty to protect you. Most people find that truly shocking and it’s a wake up call. If the cops don’t have to protect you, who will? You can even cite case law. To unreasonable people, it will make no difference. To someone with even severe apprehension about firearms, it just might.

I don’t think we realize who we affect when we post things on social media because we never actually see them or what they do with what they’ve been told unless they reply to the post. So if you post something and it gets 100 views (I guess that’s what they call it) but only two or 3 replies, don’t assume 97 people discounted it and moved on. It could be that a few actually researched what you said and are on a new path with thoughts and beliefs. Much like people from the LBGTQABCDEFG community experienced. Once thought to be dangerous because they were stigmatized as being only carriers of AIDS, we have since learned that isn’t true. And that they can actually be good people. I don’t have to agree with their lifestyle, but I’m certainly not going to accost them for being who they are. At least they have the guts to not hide.

Hiding does not effect change. It never has.
 
I certainly do not hide my gun ownership amomgst family, friends, and people I encounter on a regular basis. In fact, a new neighbor and I did some gun show and tell recently in order to share likes and dislikes. That being said, I am careful about trying not to advertise what material possessions may be in my home or vehicle, no matter if guns, or tools, or technology, or anything else. I’m not hiding my feelings about the second amendment or shooting in any way, but am just careful about letting others take advantage of me or my family. Just that simple.
 
When I sold my house I moved the guns into my brothers house. No need for unknown people to know you have firearms in the house

I would also not advertise if I had gold or diamonds in the house.

It makes no sense to me to set yourself up as a target.
 
You know what?

I live very frugally and don’t have too many nice things. Not my style. I do have nice guns, nice woodworking tools, nice knives and nice sewing machines...more or less all out in the open.

When people I don’t know enter my house I generally hide the guns and knives. The average blue collar knows guns are valuable and lots of people like edged tools. I also hide my laptops, PlayStation, and books about all of previously mentioned items. The average idiot knows nothing about sewing machines or antique woodworking tools and most are too heavy to care about.

I never tip my hand to anyone about anything including guns, football, or golf clubs. No NRA stickers or hats even though I’m a Life Member.

I hide out of concern for keeping honest people honest and not much more. They can have my second hand TV and furniture. My waffle iron is a Griswold and was made before my parents were born.
 
I hide out of concern for keeping honest people honest and not much more.
That's actually the reason there's a big honkin' padlock on the door of my toolshed out back - but it's not really locked. There's nothing in that shed that's worth more than the shed's door itself. If some thief was really intent on getting into that shed, I rather have them try the lock and see that it's not really locked, than have them kick in my sheds door to get to a few screwdrivers, a socket set, and a few cans of motor oil. Besides that, I hate having to walk back to the house just to fetch a key when I need to add oil to the lawnmower - which is also a comparatively cheap version.;)
 
We gun folks have a considerable dilemma. Being wide open about our gun preferences and showing our collections opens us up for scorn and theft. I rarely get involved in a conversation with anti-gun person because it is fruitless and annoying. I never mention guns to strangers, nor do I show casual visitors or service people my gun room. I close the gun room door during visits. Most of the gun folks I associate with are likewise. It's not unlike jewelry or other easily stolen valuables in terms of visibility. But, gun ownership is the only thing that anti-gun people feel free to openly criticize.
 
I rarely get involved in a conversation with anti-gun person because it is fruitless and annoying.
Kinda like the little captioned picture my father-in-law had hanging in his bathroom, huh Sniper66? It was a picture of a pig in a wallow, and the caption read, "Never wrestle with a pig - all you get is dirty, and the pig enjoys it."
Unless pushed, I avoid "conversations" with anti-gun people too.
 
Kinda like the little captioned picture my father-in-law had hanging in his bathroom, huh Sniper66? It was a picture of a pig in a wallow, and the caption read, "Never wrestle with a pig - all you get is dirty, and the pig enjoys it."
Unless pushed, I avoid "conversations" with anti-gun people too.
I truly enjoy humiliating anti-gun cultists by throwing their lies back in their faces. It gives normal people something to think about.
 
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